[Aiden Smith]

I asked about filters last night and got some great advice. After doing what was suggested I am still having problems with getting my TDS down to a reasonable level. So my setup as follows. Out the tap at 255 through the sediment filter and then the carbon fibre. Pressure without pump is 20psi. Then through 4040 with a TDS of 145. I added a pump and tried all the different variants 5050 6040 and so on. I had the pump going and PSI would increase to 40 but with the gate valve 90%shut. Still getting TDs of145. I then hooked up to DI vessel and 000. This is bound to use up my resin quickly I have the pump before the the prefilters and changed the position to between the prefilters and the 4040 still no luck. Sorry it sounds a little bit all over the place. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated. Before I pull my hair out.

[Aiden Smith]

Pump is a Clarke spe1200ss with flow rate of 61l p/m

[p1w1]

That pump is about 65 psi max (advertised psi, but you've shown it only gets to 40psi) ideally you want about 80-100psi depending on what membrane your using so you've only got half the pressure needed for what the membrane really needs . Personally i think that pump is good for filling your tank and not to use as a booster pump.
So basically that pump is no good as a booster pump.

[simon w]

Where are you based Aiden? You might find there's a CIU member close enough to where you live to come and have a look and see if they can fix the problem for you

[Status Check]

You need above 70 psi for a 4040 to work correctly.
Try this pump.
.https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cbm240e-1in-multi-stage-230v-booster-pum/
You should get water out the 4040 at around 15ppm with this pump if your RO is a decent make. Then DI down to 000.

[Spruce]

Pump is a Clarke spe1200ss with flow rate of 61l p/m

Unfortunately it isn't the flow rate that's important. Rather it how much pressure that pump is able to put on the water. These are transfer pumps and a transfer pump isn't a booster pump. Flow and pressure are related but not the same thing.

I'm guessing you saw the same pump used as a booster pump on this;
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/051016200/

As you can see its spec gives a boosted pressure of 43psi.

[Aiden Smith]

Thanks very much for all the replies. It looks like I got a pump that is not up to the job.
I will have to try again with ones suggested. Thanks again enjoy the rest of the weekend.

[CleanClear]

Pump is a Clarke spe1200ss with flow rate of 61l p/m

Unfortunately it isn't the flow rate that's important. Rather it how much pressure that pump is able to put on the water. These are transfer pumps and a transfer pump isn't a booster pump. Flow and pressure are related but not the same thing.

I'm guessing you saw the same pump used as a booster pump on this;
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/051016200/

As you can see its spec gives a boosted pressure of 43psi.

Here's a thing. That "booster pump" , you say has a boosted pressure of 43PSI. Its also says 46 metre head.


46 Metre head is equivalent to 65 PSI.


Also it says its capable of 61 Lts a minute. No way is it gonna be sucking that much out your mains, i'd doubt it anyway. Here's the same pump without the "booster" tank and switch on it, which i use and it just runs flat out. I did say before my last one lasted me 7 years ?

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/051012200/

Beats me why some fellas are paying extra for the booster tank and switch.

[CleanClear]

Unfortunately it isn't the flow rate that's important. Rather it how much pressure that pump is able to put on the water.

If that was true then he could use a shurflo window cleaning pump out the back of the van, they're good for 100PSI. But he can't can he ?

[Michael Peterson]

I believe that membrane inside your 4040 could be contaminated , faulty if new or in back to front

[Michael Peterson]

If you think this might be the case , take it out (I’ll tell you how if your not sure ) if it’s slimy it need changed

[Aiden Smith]

I have replaced the old membrane which had a greenish look to it. I changed it (axion HF5) about 2 weeks ago with new sediment and carbon filters. I did watch some clips on how to insert and followed instructions.

[dd]

It could be that you have low water flow from your mains supply - meaning the pump is not getting enough volume of water to give you a higher psi for the RO.

If that is the case you might be better using a smaller RO unit which requires a lower volume of water supply. That way you should be able to boost your psi because a lower volume of water is being pushed through the RO at a higher pressure.

[Spruce]

It could be that you have low water flow from your mains supply - meaning the pump is not getting enough volume of water to give you a higher psi for the RO.

If that is the case you might be better using a smaller RO unit which requires a lower volume of water supply. That way you should be able to boost your psi because a lower volume of water is being pushed through the RO at a higher pressure.

Good point made. What is the flow of water in liters per minute at the booster pump connection? A boosted 4040 needs around 9 lpm from what I remember on Gardiners site.
At 50psi our 4040 consumes 4 liters per minute, 2 pure and 2 waste.

[Aiden Smith]

The plumber who fitted the outside tap tested it with a psi meter and it showed 40psi.
Someone else I know also has seen the water flow and said that the flow was good.

[dd]

Something does not add up if your tap pressure is 40psi. Pressure without pump is 20 psi and with pump 40 psi.

Either the filters and/or RO is clogged up or one of your readings is wrong.

To measure water flow turn tap on full for 1 minute and measure how much water comes out. To state the obvious you will then know your flow rate in litres per minute.

If the flow rate is low using washing machine or bath etc will affect your psi.

[Michael Peterson]

Any results

[Aiden Smith]

Hi Michael
Thanks for asking.
I got a Dab pump and this has been much better as I can get my PSI up to 80. This has brought my TDS down from 145 to 82 before the Di vessel. I also have my gate valve vertually closed. No were near the 5050 6040 or 7030 been mentioned in other threads. I decided to run it through my Di vessel and get 000. This is great but surely is going to use my resin quickly. The flow is really good as it took just over 2 hours to fill my 500lt tank from empty. Any other possible ideas to get the TDs down.
Thanks Aiden

[SB Cleaning]

If your tds is 82 after Ro and before di the membranes shot....my water pressure is around 45psi and my waters reading 14tds after Ro and it's a year old...it read 4tds when new...my water is around 220tds out the tap when my tds reaches 25tds I change the membrane.

Are they doing any work on the water pipes in your area as a couple of years ago they did around here and it caused havoc with my system

[Aiden Smith]

Hi SB
This will is a brand new Axeon HF5 which has been in the RO about 1 month with new sediment and carbon filters also. I watched Gardner's YouTube clip as to changing the filter. Thanks for the reply

[Aiden Smith]

No work been done on the pipework

[SB Cleaning]

Hi SB
This will is a brand new Axeon HF5 which has been in the RO about 1 month with new sediment and carbon filters also. I watched Gardner's YouTube clip as to changing the filter. Thanks for the reply

I found the Axeon filters utter rubbish mine was shot in 3 months.

Your RO is shot I'm afraid as long as the systems setup correctly it's the only explanation.

[Aiden Smith]

Am I right in thinking it's the housing you are talking about.

[nathankaye]

Am I right in thinking it's the housing you are talking about.

Nope, the membrane as you should be getting much better results than what you are.

[Aiden Smith]

Thanks Nathan
How much of a difference will it make if the filter is in the wrong way. I followed the instructions, so believe that I have done it wright.

[nathankaye]

I have no experience with  the big RO's so couldn't advice beyond saying that the filter is wrong.
I use the smaller 450gpd and I take my tap water from just under 300 tds down to 006 (I don't bother with DI anymore).
So the big boys at 20inches membranes which cost a whole lot more, I would want to see the same results if not better.

Ones have posted how they feel the membrane you have,  are not very efficient and only lasted a few months. Could it be that the membrane is at fault? If everything is set up right.
It might be worth filming it and showing on here, so some of the more experienced chaps in this area can see it and perhaps advice further.  Upload to YouTube and set to private. Copy the link and post it on here and that way ones are in a better position to advice. As it seems something is very wrong, that even with a booster pump you are yielding such high tds after membranes

[Aiden Smith]

Thanks very much for the advice Nathan. I will have to do that so I can get to the bottom of the problem.

[SB Cleaning]

When you fitted the ro did you put silicone grease around o rings?

[Aiden Smith]

I am positive I did as my father in law helped as he is good with these sorts of things and we used his silicon.

[Ooooooog]

Where do you live?
Can you post photos so we can diagnose?

[SB Cleaning]

Yep we need a video really showing your setup...I see your in Gloucestershire, I'm in Herefordshire if you want to pop up I can take a look at it for you

[Shaun Gill]

Sounds to me like you’re not restricting the flow enough for the pressure to build up in your RO.

Take your gate valve off, close it and drill a 2mm hole through the the closed valve. Then put it back on and leave it closed, you should see an increase in pressure and a decrease of your tds.

[Aiden Smith]

SB I am in Gloucester. Innsworth close to the Old RAF now NATO site. If you could I would be very grateful. I am happy to give you some money for feul. I just want this sorted.
Thanks Aiden

[Aiden Smith]

Here is the video of my setup. If anyone can help that will be great
https://youtu.be/5X9edeKIC7w

[Spruce]

Here is the video of my setup. If anyone can help that will be great
https://youtu.be/5X9edeKIC7w

Which port does your inlet to the r/o at the bottom go? There are 2. One in the centre and the other to the side. The inlet goes to the side one and the centre port is plugged.

Stupid question, but have you got the membrane the right way round?

These are the instructions for the champ housing but the r/o membrane goes in the same way.

[Spruce]

Squeeky has a video up of how to change a membrane. He has done it from the other end so his membrane went in the other way around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIqHpNklwVk

Here is another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP0t25qn7HM

[Aiden Smith]

Hi Spruce
Yes it's going into the side port at the bottom of the RO. The video I have looked at show it going into the middle. Is this correct

[Spruce]

Hi Spruce
Yes it's going into the side port at the bottom of the RO. The video I have looked at show it going into the middle. Is this correct

It goes into the side port, not the centre port. The pure is the only exit that comes from the center port. So the waste comes from the outside port on the other end, the same end as the pure.

Alex Gardiner put up a detailed video a few years ago showing how to put a 4021 together. I can't find it.

[Spruce]

Hi Spruce
Yes it's going into the side port at the bottom of the RO. The video I have looked at show it going into the middle. Is this correct

It goes into the side port, not the centre port. The pure is the only exit that comes from the center port. So the waste comes from the outside port on the other end, the same end as the pure.

Alex Gardiner put up a detailed video a few years ago showing how to put a 4021 together. I can't find it.

Here's one of Alex's videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s2gqdelXV0&feature=youtu.be

The first part is fitting the sediment/carbon block combination prefilter so you should be looking from 7.00 onwards.

The one I was looking for is no longer available.
 https://youtu.be/-r0H7rQEWtw

There's something way back in my memory where someone was getting poor membrane performance results and it was because the membrane had been inserted the wrong way round. But please don't take that as fact as I could be wrong.

[Aiden Smith]

Thank you very much for your input Spruce. Much appreciated. I will have to check my membrane

[Clever Forum Name]

465-485 TDS out of tap - 3 Pre filters - Through 40/40 stainless housing and at 70-80 psi comes out at 6ppm