[Shaun_Ashmore]

Competion from other cleaners drive the price down, to get more work than a competetor we think sell it cheaper, not everyone goes for cheaper.

Shaun

[spickandspan]

That is the art of any job is pricing, the words i hate is when the customer says is that all............... makes you think eh?

[Liahona]

Just as a side mark and I think it has been touched on a little. Most of you now know the type of

customers and properties that I go after. Apart from one all the others are as far away from a city as

they can be. Best, Dave.

[angela carlton]

Gentlemen

You cannot compare yourself to Doctors or Solicitors

To do so is just pathetic and reminds me of the Communistic and Trade Unionist thinking which kepf the USSR China in the dark ages for so long.

However, if you genuinely use the best products and equipment and have really trained and gained experience, over 4 - 5 years, before charging similar prices to the major franchise companies and most importantly.....really do a much better job than less expensive operators, you are certainly entitled to charge premium rates.

Someone mentioned M&S and it's a good analogy.

To simply charge high prices without providing exceptional value, is dishonest and unethical

Scanning the postings on here, what continually comes up, is the wish, by many, to raise the profile of the industry, which is good and positive, but the only way this will be achieved, is through 'certification'

Other industries have had to go down this route and all that's required, is to get NVQ/SVQ courses written and get FE Colleges to take them on board then the public can be informed that a standard exists and they can check on cleaners credentials.

The only downside to this, is that many vastly experienced operators will exclude themselves, feeling that their knowledge and experience is well above the NVQ level
and they would be absolutely correct in their assumptions, or would they?

It's highly probable that this scenario will soon be forced upon the industry anyway, so why not take control of your own destiny?

angie

[Ian Gourlay]

Angie,

I have read your post with interest.

The industry has The NCCA as a training organization
and the Institute of inspection cleaning and Restoration Certification scheme.


I would say that most Carpet Cleaners on these Forums are trained way in excess of NVQ 2

Many have degrees.


I personally would say that with the business skills involved we are looking at NVQ 3 or 4 status.

It would be helpful to know a little about yourself as your profile tells us nothing.

[angela carlton]

With any training, there has to be a starting point and that would be the entry level NVQ .

As experienced operators would be reluctant, in many cases, to attempt formal tests / exams, simply because they could end up failing them, in spite of being far more highly qualified, in true terms, it would be a better idea, I think, to introduce a simple modular training system, which could allow anyone to work through a formal training, from entry level, upwards.

This would eliminate the reluctance / fear of embarassment and the more experienced would obviously advance through the course much more quickly than novices, particularly, when getting to the, ' hands on ' stages.

I envisage a distance learning set up, for the entry level stages and  co operation with suppliers manufacturers for more advanced and practical stages.

Of course, you are correct when you state that most experienced operators would, or should be at NVQ 4, or greater, but how many would be prepared to sit an exam
set at that level.

If the industry fails to set up something like this, you can be sure, it will be forced upon you, in the near future.

It's already happened in General Cleaning, in the Care Sector, Driving Instruction. etc, only a matter of time.

I'm not suggesting the NCCA or IICRC courses are inadequate, they are not formalised through our colleges. In fact, they could easily be incorporated within a formal NVQ setup.

On a personal note. I am the wife and business partner, of a long time carpet cleaner who's been forced to ' hang up his wand '

I am running the cleaning business, as part of our much bigger Care business, but will probably sell off the equipment later this year, as we are looking at working smarter, rather than, harder.

angie

[Ian Gourlay]

Angie,

As I understod it when John Major first set up NVQs you could also gain credits through assesement of prior learning.

What I am wondering  are you connected to the training industry?

[angela carlton]

Not directly Ian

And as mentioned, I'm aware of the system, but many experienced, but non certificated people, from many disciplines, who would run rings around the paper tigers of today, would be reluctant to take exams, or tests to confirm their knowledge / experience, for fear of embarassment, or worse.

This has led to the ludicrous situation in many walks of life, where people with great experience, expertise and ability have been bypassed by, inexperienced and often incompetent juniors, just because they have ' the paperwork ' which, rather unbelievably makes them MORE QUALIFIED.

I am, involved in training, at SVQ1,2 and 3 levels and my husband has worked in Tertiary education, as a lecturer where the system, made it almost impossible to fail, when Modules were introduced.

Hence the above comments, as we became aware, of more and more situations, where young, inexperienced, certificate holders were getting jobs, ahead of far better candidates.

As it's highly probable, that the government will force a ' level of competence 'by certification, upon the industry, the industry could pre empt that situation by working with a college and set up a suitable and acceptable course, from entry level to diploma level.

As you mention, there are already two organisations offering training and they could be involved.

I never intended to get so involved in this dialogue, so I'll shut up now

angie





 

[John Kelly]

Carpet cleaning has escaped the ravages of government interferance up to now mainly because it is seen as a fringe activity.
Personally I would like to see it left that way.
All that happens is the genuine people out there who do things by the book, end up picking up the can and the bill whilst the cowboys go on their merry little way without a care in the world.
The vast majority of the public don't give a dam about certification etc. This has been proved time and time again.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I agree John, certifications are from training and are for us cc so we know what we are doing.

The NCCA logo carries little weight with Joe Public, as choosing a member is not really a life or death decission if the customer gets it wrong unlike turning on gas or electricity.

Shaun

[spickandspan]

I would think about 99% of my customers would not know about NCCA. as you say shaun.

[angela carlton]

I am not in favour of control or interference, from outside, our own lives have been affected several times, by this situation.

Most recently, in our Care business, where everyone, including the Directors and office staff must have a Disclosure from the CRO and we are being forced to train our staff to SVQ 2 level, also we must have all staff trained in Moving and Handling, Risk Assesment, Food Hygiene and the list is growing.

Now these are Care workers, formerly known as Home Helps.

If you consider the difference in the simple tasks Carers carry out, compared to the work c/c's do and the equipment and products used, a Government Agency would have a field day.

All I've suggested, is that, the c/c industry should consider getting a formal training package together, as mentioned above, otherwise, they will come knocking, sooner or later.

Like yourselves, I resent interference and agree, that the general public are not too concerned about certification, with the possible exception of CORGI.

I was recently forced to undertake training, to allow me to continue to run MY BUSINESS.

I'm not supporting the ideology, just warning that, without doubt, it's coming, but you can organise it yourselves, within the industry.

time to work

angie

 

[spickandspan]

And how will they police it

[angela carlton]

Policing is already going on and has been for at least 10 years, but not in the way you're thinking.

If you drive a van, it's highly probable that you've been stopped in roadside checks over the past decade.

Policing, or as it's correctly termed, monitoring, already exists in the Care sector and to a minor extent already exists within the c/c industry.

We had an advert about 6 years ago which included the Woolsafe logo, as we were using Woolsafe products and a local c/c reported this, as he  knew the business was not woolsafe approved. We changed the advert, as we were in the wrong !

My purpose here is merely to warn of something that will almost certainly happen. It won't affect me, as I will, hopefully, be out of the c/c business this year, but with the paranoia abour h & s increasing, some little ' suit ' will eventually turn their attention to this industry.

must go

Angie

 

[spickandspan]

Well is it true??

[angela carlton]

Is what true ?

Angie

[scott.]

gee.....what a bitchy topic.....in my opinion, and as stated, customers dont give a damn if youre qualified as a brain surgeon...put yourself in their shoes...price, and when can you do it, is foremost in their minds.
As for the hotheads that quible about their overheads...my guess is that they were silly enough to buy a franchise...overheads in this game are embarassingly low, as we know...2 weeks money should cover nearly a years running costs...depending on the degree of advertising....so please..stop windging guys.....or move down south

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Potential customers that contact me do ask the price but I side track them and tell them what I do, why I do it, the benefits then how much I charge.

I have to do this because I don't charge £30 to clean a carpet like some wallys in my area.

Shaun

[scott.]

yes , shaun...correct..If they want it done for nothing, then  they should do it themselves...with 1001 and a sponge, but im sick of these franchise boys moaning that they have to cover their overheads...a blind man could see that you gotta charge £120 for a living room to make a profit!  they shouldnt be so lazy in the first place, and put some effort into starting and maintaining their own business...it takes years, like any business, but I guess worth it in the end...Ive been in business for 2 years, but hold down another full time job, on nights...just incase..but its getting there....stick to the national average, as regards pricing, and you cant go wrong....and dont back down on price.

[spickandspan]

Hi scott this is why i started this poll to see what everbody charged.
But there is no way i could charge £120 for a domestic lounge no way.