[andy roberts]

I have now had 4 emails back from various carpet manufacturers regarding the agitation of pre sprays that is commonly practised by many. All 4 (& im waiting for 3 others to respond) have been TOTALLY AGAINST rotary agitation & wouldn't recommed anyone agitating carpet fibres in this way as this may cause a 'matting' effect (their words). Brintons went further by saying that they would recommend the use of GENTLE MANUAL agitation to enable the pre spray to penetrate the base of the fibre but only in stained localised areas and not the whole carpet. All 4 recommended HWE but where against bonnet cleaning.

3 stated that if they were to prove that aggresive agitation  had caused irreversable pile damage and a claim was being made, then the customers guarantee would be effected.

Reading past posts on here, it has always concerned me that this would appear common work practise but the risk of causing pile/fibre damage (especially using rotary machines) is high.

Im expecting some strong comments back on this subject, but you cant argue with the companies who actually produce carpeting.

Regards  Andy 

[carpetclean]

hi Andy did you ask about the environdri and the sebo  duo type of agitation and what effect they had ?

[HolmansUKLTD]

Mecanichal aggitation amoung CC is fairly new, 5 years ago any newbies to this game would not have used a sebo or enviordri they would have used a pile brush as this is what they would have been taught, its since the use of ms products that machine aggitation has become big business, so maybe we have to thank the likes of one step and solution!!probabbly 8 out of 10 CC now use some form of machine aggitation, the same 8 out of 10 would have just used a pile brush 5 or 10 years ago.

[carpetclean]

yes nick when i posted i had dry cleaning in mind!!? but fair point

[HolmansUKLTD]

you should have mentioned dry cleaning then

not that you do any

[andy roberts]

Peter

Ive emailed them again asking about sebo duo etc. waiting a reply.

Regards  Andy

[andy roberts]

Now had 7 emails back from manufacturers ALL stating that they would not endorse the use of any aggitation of their carpet fibres.

Ref Sebo Duo & others sim. - "we recommend the hot water extraction method of cleaning administered by professionals who have attained industry standard. We continue to advise you that we do not and never have recommended aggitating (whether machine - no matter how they are engineered or manual) carpet fibres. We maintain that this action is very likely to cause permenant fibre damage."

Waiting to here from others. Keep you updated.

Regards  Andy.

[steve cardy]

The manufacturers had better tell that to any makers of vacumns to take off thier beater bars as i am sure they might well aggitate the fibres as they are hoovering.

[gwrightson]

So, it looks like all of the manufactures of cleaning solutions are completly wrong in the info they give out  
infact are all the c/c instructors wrong also, are the ncca and iicrc wrong in the reccomendations of aggitation in the cleaning pie? apparenttly they must be, well according to this latest info.

One good thing , I can save a bit of time on the carpet cleaning "not having to aggitate"
Having said that dont think i shall stop aggitation,
dont think i would get any of my customers back for repeat buisness, on same custy ringing up to come and reclean
 Geoff

[andy roberts]

The manufacturers had better tell that to any makers of vacumns to take off thier beater bars as i am sure they might well aggitate the fibres as they are hoovering.

Vacuum cleaners of this nature are designed to 'bring the pile up' and encourage as much dirt/grit to be successfully recovered. Carpet manufacturers recommend this type of vacumm cleaner as apposed to others and they also say that this type of vacuuming should be done once a day to help maintain wear and appearance.

Regards  Andy

[andy roberts]

So, it looks like all of the manufactures of cleaning solutions are completly wrong in the info they give out  
infact are all the c/c instructors wrong also, are the ncca and iicrc wrong in the reccomendations of aggitation in the cleaning pie? apparenttly they must be, well according to this latest info.

I would feel more confident in going with what the manufacturers state before so called cleaning instructors or any National industry body. When you think about it, its just common sense.

regards Andy

[gwrightson]

Andy, I do not wish to sound irritated, but , Quote, " so called cleaning instuctors of any National body"

does sound to me a little harsh and condesending, I am sure that the vast majority of instucters are well qualified, have a wealth of experience and know their job.
yor reply seems to give the opinion that, this may not be the case, oh dear . What are we to do?
what are all the newbies going to make of this, Instuctors that dont know what they are talking about, chemical manufacturers , that dont really know the effects of their reccomendations

Perhaps Andy , You could start a c/c course to show us all the best and only way

 Geoff

[fibresafe]

Common sense says to me that if you can dry vacuum a carpet every day with a rotating brush, it is also ok to agitate during occasional cleaning.

No disrespect to the people you've been talking to, but I'll go with Woolsafe, the IICRC and the NCCA's technical cleaning knowledge on this one.

Carpet manufacturers are not necessarily experts in carpet cleaning. In fact most manufacturers will consult a recognised body such as the NCCA/IICRC/Woolsafe for advise on cleaning.

Are you sure the people you are talking to don't think you are only talking about rotary agitation?

If a carpet manufacturer stipulates that any form of agitation will void their warranty then that's a differet matter. But until then, I'll stick with getting the best results possible by agitating using industry recognised methods.

[andy roberts]

Common sense says to me that if you can dry vacuum a carpet every day with a rotating brush, it is also ok to agitate during occasional cleaning.

No disrespect to the people you've been talking to, but I'll go with Woolsafe, the IICRC and the NCCA's technical cleaning knowledge on this one.

If a carpet manufacturer stipulates that any form of agitation will void their warranty then that's a differet matter. But until then, I'll stick with getting the best results possible by agitating using industry recognised methods.

A dry vacuum cleaner with a rotating brush touches the pile SURFACE at low RPM.

Ive been 'talking' now to 11 major manufacturers who are roughly saying the same as Brintons did in my first post.

Im not telling anyone to stop doing what there doing or being over reactive, Im simply putting facts to this forum for constructive and friendly debate. Ive researched the facts, got the evidence required and have presented them to you.
Stick to what you know if you so wish, but my men have now stopped aggitating on the advise of carpet manufacturers. I dont want a counter claim for negligence.

Regards  Andy

[fibresafe]

http://www.brintons.net/cgi-bin/viewPage.cgi?linkId=866&languageId=1

[steve cardy]

 I would have to disagree concerning the speed at which the brushes on a top quality vaccunm spin.A sebo upright has an independent moter which spins alot faster than what i would call low rpm. I do agree however that the use of a rotery machine on a piled carpet is not acceptable.

[steve cardy]

I have just read the link to brintons.
But i am trying hard to understand the logic of hwe method 1.
IT says that because your jets may get blocked with shampoo it would result in a large residue being left in the carpet.
Or have i got that wrong

[woodman]

Brintons will also tell you that their carpets never suffer from pile reversal : When we all know that they do.

Agitation is a intergral part of practicaly all cleaning systems and is a necessary part of the cleaning pie to obtain best results.

Put simply no manufacturer will openly say it's necesary as some cleaner may over agitate causing damage, but they know full well it is necessary.So listen to the cleaning professionals and not the salesmen and stop worrying

Incidently I would quite happily use good recommended rotation system (and do) on Brintons carpets or any body elses for that matter with no ill effects and with excellent results.

[Mike Halliday]

does anyone give a rats bottom what the carpet manufacturers say : :

all they are interested in doing is covering there own backs, of course they are not going to recommend agitation, just imagine if they said it was OK to rotary scrub a carpet, it would open a floodgate of claims for damage caused by over zealous use of scrubbing ( because they said rotaries are OK)

and in the end do they want carpets to be cleaned or would they prefer them to be replaced : : :

Mike

[woodman]

Quite right