[chopsie]

Do you all clean the top frame on every clean and then move directly onto the glass below. I tend to just do the top frame when its looking a bit dirty, possibly every 3-4 cleans, but this then makes it almost like a first clean as i move round each frame first and then come back to the first window when the drips have stopped. i was told a long time ago to avoid the top frames as much as possible as it will only cause problems?

[Steve Newres]

Do you all clean the top frame on every clean and then move directly onto the glass below. I tend to just do the top frame when its looking a bit dirty, possibly every 3-4 cleans, but this then makes it almost like a first clean as i move round each frame first and then come back to the first window when the drips have stopped. i was told a long time ago to avoid the top frames as much as possible as it will only cause problems?

I generally clean the top frame unless it has vents that look like they’ll cause a problem. Then I’ll do like you. Avoid them until they look like they need a clean.

[P @ F]

I do all the frame every time , i just see it as leaving any out is making trouble for yourself in the longrun , you scrub the poop out of it on a first clean , so why not keep on top of it .

[chopsie]

I do all the frame every time , i just see it as leaving any out is making trouble for yourself in the longrun , you scrub the poop out of it on a first clean , so why not keep on top of it .

Do you wait for the drips to stop like on a first clean or go directly onto the glass below straight away?

[P @ F]

All i do on repeat cleans is to wash the frames top to bottom then  go onto glass top to bottom , no waiting for drips or moving to another window and coming back , if you have done a good job of the first clean it should not be an issue with runs , in 12 years of working like this i have only ever had 1 window cause me a problem , and that is the mother in laws front room with 2 top openers that always drip a bit of white in the middle of lower pane , if she ever complains then she is dumped   

[dazmond]

for most windows i clean the top frames every time....however i know which windows cause me trouble(usually dodgy rubber seals)so i dont clean these top frames for months and months and just clean them when they look dirty.for  ground floor frames with dodgy seals i use a cloth for the top frames.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Top frames are no different from the middle frames between the panes of glass.   So why would you leave the top frame and then clean the middle frame above the lower glass ? 

Only exception are those air vents.  Just run the brush over them with water turned off.

Also make sure when cleaning the top frames you are not making contact with the brick work.  That will cause runs.

Remember how wfp works.  Scrub the dirt loose and rinse off. So as long as you rinse the top frame avoiding brick work you won't have any problems.

[nathankaye]

I perhaps do them every 2nd or 3rd clean.  After the first clean, they dont seem to get dirty. Or at least thats my experience any way, but I like to keep on top of them. Even on 2nd or 3rd clean they arent really that dirty.
So once ive cleaned the top frame its straight onto the glass. But the downstairs windows i usually do side on. So because Im using 6 jets on a 14inch brush, im cleaning frame and window at the same time, so by time my last jet is rinsing the glass directly below the top frame, 2 or 3 jets have already rinsed the window.

I also clean those stick out air vents on windows on a first clean and wait untill clear water is running through. Then again every 2nd or 3rd clean I run over them again.  (i have a vid on my you tube channel showing this). Never had a problem with them this way. Admittedly the first clean takes a long time but then I charge accordingly.

[dazmond]

Top frames are no different from the middle frames between the panes of glass.   So why would you leave the top frame and then clean the middle frame above the lower glass ? 

Only exception are those air vents.  Just run the brush over them with water turned off.

Also make sure when cleaning the top frames you are not making contact with the brick work.  That will cause runs.

Remember how wfp works.  Scrub the dirt loose and rinse off. So as long as you rinse the top frame avoiding brick work you won't have any problems.

I disagree mate.SOME  top frames WILL cause you trouble from runs from dodgy rubber seals and are best avoided IMO unless dirty.then when they do get cleaned i do the top frame first,go and clean another window or two,come back to the window and just clean the glass making sure i rinse just under the rubber seal.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Top frames are no different from the middle frames between the panes of glass.   So why would you leave the top frame and then clean the middle frame above the lower glass ? 

Only exception are those air vents.  Just run the brush over them with water turned off.

Also make sure when cleaning the top frames you are not making contact with the brick work.  That will cause runs.

Remember how wfp works.  Scrub the dirt loose and rinse off. So as long as you rinse the top frame avoiding brick work you won't have any problems.

I disagree mate.SOME  top frames WILL cause you trouble from runs from dodgy rubber seals and are best avoided IMO unless dirty.then when they do get cleaned i do the top frame first,go and clean another window or two,come back to the window and just clean the glass making sure i rinse just under the rubber seal.

Yes that's on the odd bad window chap..

But most are fine.  As long as you clean it every time the seals should be ok.    No different if the seals are bad on the middle frame between pains.

I never have problems

[dazmond]

as for air vents ive never had a single problem in nearly 8 years of wfp.just makes sure you dont squirt water up them!i clean them with my water on.

[chopsie]

I've got quite a few with those crap dodgy black seals that drip water forever and a day Dazmond. Drives me crazy, thats what puts me off doing tops all of the time. i want/need to work more efficiently and productively but do not want to risk the quality. I started cleaning at the end of 2009 and after a couple of years i went back to my old construction job. I've recently bought my old round back and am feeling like a new starter at times. Suppose its just trial and error, I use way too much water, i have a 400 litre tank and that only covers £100-£120 worth of work. I need to up my game!! suppose its a confidence thing

[P @ F]

Dont lose faith Chopsie , you are almost there mate , I started in 05 with a 175L tank and was empty by 12 every day and needed to refill , i then added a 250 , that was not enough so had the 175 and a 350 which was enough 

Now 12 years in i have cut back to just a 250 alone , ok , i only do 5 hours a day tops ,  but today i did from 10.30 to 3 , i made £140 and came home with just under 50 L left in the tank , its a learning curve that takes time thats all , im no big earner but i do what i want to do and go home with enough wedge to pay what needs paying, and have a bit for a rainy day     

[Splash & dash]

Yes we clean everything every time no problems then , initial clean takes longer but worth it in the long run

[DeLuce]

Yes we clean everything every time no problems then , initial clean takes longer but worth it in the long run

^as this man says above 👍🏼
Everything every time 

[P @ F]

Good thing about these type of posts is you get to see who the Splash and Dash merchants are 

[Shrek]

I thought it was normal to include the top frame 

[P @ F]

Thats how you become the elusive £400 a day man , you leave out the frames , Bodger and Badger mash potato stylee 

[jonny thompson]

Surely those who clean the top frame every time must get water run marks with the old style rubber seals?

[P @ F]

What exactly is an old style rubber seal ?

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Its an Old wives tales about the top frame 

Some might need to call in a pro window cleaner in to help show how it's done haha 

[Splash & dash]

Surely those who clean the top frame every time must get water run marks with the old style rubber seals?

No if you do the job properly it’s not an issue

[Stoots]

Very rarely clean top frames, only if they look dirty and even then on lower windows just use a dry cloth.

Upstairs can leave longer as they take months to look even slightly dirty.

Like you I'm paranoid they will run and leave a mess.

But then I back and forth windows to allow to allow the middle frames to drip a little as well.

[Splash & dash]

I am beginning to see now that there is clearly a need for a training program how to clean windows properly as it seams that everyone does things so differently, my customers certainly would be complaining if we didn’t do the whole window frame each time , and I don’t think all my customers are that persnickety, surely we are all claiming to be window cleaners so we should be giving the customer value for money doing what they are paying us to do , I charge to clean the whole window and that’s what we do , how do ones charge for a service and only do a part of the window and expect the customer to be happy and pay ? I think this is possibly why we are picking up so much work as many people are doing such a poor job, it takes seconds to do the top of the frames so why would we not do them ??

[P @ F]

^^^ Exactly , if they are done every time you wont have the problem end of , it takes seconds to go left and right twice over the top frame / vent per window , why are you guys not doing it

[The Jester of Wibbly]

I am beginning to see now that there is clearly a need for a training program how to clean windows properly as it seams that everyone does things so differently, my customers certainly would be complaining if we didn’t do the whole window frame each time , and I don’t think all my customers are that persnickety, surely we are all claiming to be window cleaners so we should be giving the customer value for money doing what they are paying us to do , I charge to clean the whole window and that’s what we do , how do ones charge for a service and only do a part of the window and expect the customer to be happy and pay ? I think this is possibly why we are picking up so much work as many people are doing such a poor job, it takes seconds to do the top of the frames so why would we not do them ??

Great post. Totally agree.

So when it rains does that cause runs as well?  Nope !

Just avoid being slap happy careless on top frames.  Don't get scrubbing the brick or masonary work that connects the top frame to the building.  Just take care and use precision.  That may be the issue for some. 

[P @ F]

I dont get it so much now , but a while ago i used to be told by many new custies that the last cleaner charged extra to do the frames , i mean what the feck is that all about , if you go down to wickes and ask for a window you get glass and a frame !

I am glad that there are still Dick Turpin school of cleaning pupils out there though , makes my life easier 

[The Jester of Wibbly]

From now on while out and about cleaning...  if i spot a house with clean windows and a dirty top frame I'm going to knock on the door and point it out to them. 

And I won't feel guilty if I win a new job. 

[P @ F]

I wouldnt do that mate , by the looks of it you will be spending more time knocking than cleaning with all the John Wayne wannabees on ere 

[jonny thompson]

Ok , I cleaned top frames and gave rubber seals a good scrum , these windows With big rubber seals I would usually avoid touching top frame of, out come water line marks not drying clear coming from rubber seal, you lot who scrum frame on every window must be leaving these marks?

[nathankaye]

There's alotof silly nonsense talk on this thread, especially saying how skipping on top frame is poor workmanship and how someones customer would complain if they themselves missed the top frame. What a load of ollocks.

My work is cleaned on a 4week rotation and for arguement sake I have done a video showing how clean my windows and yes how clean my frames are.  Therefore I dont need to clean the top frame or even the frame on every visit when they pay me to clean their glass window! Because of this they may be cleaned every 8 weeks instead and the only exception to this are my houses out in the sticks where the frames do in deed  need cleaning every visit. This is simply common sense.

In the past when I was trad cleaning, I gave my customers 2 prices. One for the windows to be cleaned and a double price for the frames to be cleaned as well. This made business sense, as it took longer to clean frames trad way and windows and it made money. Thats what running  a  business is all about, making money.

[Dry Clean]

I never put water above vents or on top frames with vertical openers below, I also understand what Jonny is talking about, if you run a damp microfiber along those old type black seals it will end up filthy no matter how many times you clean it therefore any
water left sitting on them might run the crud down onto the glass, I say might because sometimes they will leave spotting/runs
and other times they don't.
A quick wipe with a damp microfiber attached to a fixi clamp on a pole every third clean keeps the top of the frames more than clean enough to keep my customers happy.


 

[Stoots]

There's alotof silly nonsense talk on this thread, especially saying how skipping on top frame is poor workmanship and how someones customer would complain if they themselves missed the top frame. What a load of ollocks.

My work is cleaned on a 4week rotation and for arguement sake I have done a video showing how clean my windows and yes how clean my frames are.  Therefore I dont need to clean the top frame or even the frame on every visit when they pay me to clean their glass window! Because of this they may be cleaned every 8 weeks instead and the only exception to this are my houses out in the sticks where the frames do in deed  need cleaning every visit. This is simply common sense.

In the past when I was trad cleaning, I gave my customers 2 prices. One for the windows to be cleaned and a double price for the frames to be cleaned as well. This made business sense, as it took longer to clean frames trad way and windows and it made money. Thats what running  a  business is all about, making money.

I agree.

I clean top frames if they look dirty

Why? Because it's quicker not to clean them if they don't need doing.

Why would you clean something that's not visibly dirty?

I do a fantastic job and my customers are very happy with my work.

But I will add that I couldn't give a flying monkeys wotsits what anyone on a forum thinks either  I clean in what I think to be the most efficient and fastest way to produce an acceptable standard of clean.

[Splash & dash]

There's alotof silly nonsense talk on this thread, especially saying how skipping on top frame is poor workmanship and how someones customer would complain if they themselves missed the top frame. What a load of ollocks.

My work is cleaned on a 4week rotation and for arguement sake I have done a video showing how clean my windows and yes how clean my frames are.  Therefore I dont need to clean the top frame or even the frame on every visit when they pay me to clean their glass window! Because of this they may be cleaned every 8 weeks instead and the only exception to this are my houses out in the sticks where the frames do in deed  need cleaning every visit. This is simply common sense.

In the past when I was trad cleaning, I gave my customers 2 prices. One for the windows to be cleaned and a double price for the frames to be cleaned as well. This made business sense, as it took longer to clean frames trad way and windows and it made money. Thats what running  a  business is all about, making money.

So you take your car in for a service what do you expect the garage to do ? We checked the front brakes sir but didn’t bother to look at the back there ok ?  As window cleaners we are paid by the customer to clean there windows , not just the glass not just the part of the frame that we think needs cleaning but all of it , that’s what we charge for and that’s what my customers expect and get on every clean , it takes seconds to do the top of the frame , 2,3,4 5,6 Floors up you cannot see that well what’s up there if it’s been cleaned you know there won’t be a problem , this is exactly why so many questions are puting up on hear questions about track lines spots etc as people are not doing the job properly , we all get an occasional complaint or a problem window but this is the method of how to clean you will be taught if you go on a course  it’s taught that way for a reason beacause it works end Off but it’s up to you how you choose to work but if offering a professional service please do the job correctly

[jonny thompson]

But if you clean the top frame with problem rubbers you have a chance of leaving windows with water lines on and bleeding frames, so your not actually doing  the job properly, clean glass or clean top frame, yes you get both on most windows but not all like your suggesting

[Splash & dash]

But if you clean the top frame with problem rubbers you have a chance of leaving windows with water lines on and bleeding frames, so your not actually doing  the job properly, clean glass or clean top frame, yes you get both on most windows but not all like your suggesting

If you take your time on the first clean and I accept it does take twice as long you won’t have any problems we do every property the same way domestic and commercial and believe me we do some seriously large commercial buildings and I can count on the fingers of one hand how many problems we have had in 19 years : it’s all about technique and how you do the clean , some rubbers are more prone to bleeding than others but the rubber is behind the frame how on earth can that affect the glass as the water will run down the side of the window you can get track lines from vents directly above a pain of glass but again we flush all vents on the first clean being careful not to flood water inside the house again after a thourogh first Clean never get any issues this was how I was taught to do it and have always done this way of cleaning and very rarely get a problem so it does work , but as I say everyone to there own way of doing it I think this is why we are picking up so much new work as most of our new customers are complaining about their current window cleaner doing a poor job frames not cleaned properly run marks spots etc , I don’t care how anyone cleans there customers windows : all I was trying to do was share my experience as to how to avoid the issues that continue to be brought up on hear this way of cleaning does work there are so many so called window cleaners who have no idear how to clean a window they think it’s easy money squirt a bit of water around and then wonder why there’s issues , it’s not rocket science to do this job anyone can do it but like all things so ways work and some will cause you problems , if you do t clean the top of 5he frame each time the dirt up there is minimal I accept but when rain Water runs off the frame onto the glass it will take the dirt with it leaving spotting and track lines , so for 3 seconds per window why would you not clean it each time?.

[Dry Clean]

But if you clean the top frame with problem rubbers you have a chance of leaving windows with water lines on and bleeding frames, so your not actually doing  the job properly, clean glass or clean top frame, yes you get both on most windows but not all like your suggesting

If you take your time on the first clean and I accept it does take twice as long you won’t have any problems we do every property the same way domestic and commercial and believe me we do some seriously large commercial buildings and I can count on the fingers of one hand how many problems we have had in 19 years : it’s all about technique and how you do the clean , some rubbers are more prone to bleeding than others but the rubber is behind the frame how on earth can that affect the glass as the water will run down the side of the window you can get track lines from vents directly above a pain of glass but again we flush all vents on the first clean being careful not to flood water inside the house again after a thourogh first Clean never get any issues this was how I was taught to do it and have always done this way of cleaning and very rarely get a problem so it does work , but as I say everyone to there own way of doing it I think this is why we are picking up so much new work as most of our new customers are complaining about their current window cleaner doing a poor job frames not cleaned properly run marks spots etc , I don’t care how anyone cleans there customers windows : all I was trying to do was share my experience as to how to avoid the issues that continue to be brought up on hear this way of cleaning does work there are so many so called window cleaners who have no idear how to clean a window they think it’s easy money squirt a bit of water around and then wonder why there’s issues , it’s not rocket science to do this job anyone can do it but like all things so ways work and some will cause you problems , if you do t clean the top of 5he frame each time the dirt up there is minimal I accept but when rain Water runs off the frame onto the glass it will take the dirt with it leaving spotting and track lines , so for 3 seconds per window why would you not clean it each time?.

Unless the frames are flush with the walls which is seldom the case then rain water isnt going to get anywhere near the top of the frame, I have vents that you could empty your tank cleaning and they will still leave runs and spotting, technique will only take you so far but a quality shiner will also know when its best not to put water on a top frame.

[jonny thompson]

I agree after years of using wfp it’s a case of knowing which rubbers will leave marks,maybe I will have a go at scrubbing the rubber seals and top frames leaving droplets of water to run and see how they dry

[Dry Clean]

I agree after years of using wfp it’s a case of knowing which rubbers will leave marks,maybe I will have a go at scrubbing the rubber seals and top frames leaving droplets of water to run and see how they dry

If your having problems with rubber seals then scrubbing them wont make a difference, I have a patio door on my own property
that will leave spots and run if you put water on the frame above it, believe me its nothing to do with the lack of scrubbing,  some say if you clean dodgy seals with Virosol it helps but Iv never tried it.

[jonny thompson]

Agree it’s back to  cleaning the glass and making sure no water droplets left to run from seals

[robbo333]

Do you all clean the top frame on every clean and then move directly onto the glass below. I tend to just do the top frame when its looking a bit dirty, possibly every 3-4 cleans, but this then makes it almost like a first clean as i move round each frame first and then come back to the first window when the drips have stopped. i was told a long time ago to avoid the top frames as much as possible as it will only cause problems?

Hi Chopsie, I clean every 8 weeks.

Yes, I clean the top frame on every clean.

Once or twice across the top frame with water on a fairly high flow.

I then proceed to clean the horizontal top opener, right around the little window frame (if there is one) and then the rest of the frame, down the sides etc (but not the bottom sill).  So fundamentally, i've cleaned all the frame (but not the sill).

Then I clean the glass, start with top opener (if there is one) twice over with a brush and a quick rinse. Then the window opposite the top opener (two or three times, horizontally, across the top of the glass and the bit of rubber and frame above it) spread your brush so it covers both the top of the glass and the frame above.

Then up and down over the glass; go over it twice and then a quick rinse. When you go over the glass, you agitate the dirt (make sure you get right down the sides and into the corners), when you rinse, you rinse off all the dirty water.

Then come back to the window below the top opener and repeat as above.

Then clean the plastic just below the window (once across), then turn your water off.

Now you can wipe your brush along the window seal (once or twice, up to you).

So basically, I have cleaned all the frame first (except the sill) then cleaned the glass in a logical order that minimises drips onto the glass below.  Then I cleaned the window seal, with the water turned off to minimise drips onto the window below.

If your first clean is good and you are methodical in your subsequent cleans, you should be ok.

I understand you were told not to clean the top frames. I disagree, if you clean it thoroughly on your first clean then you should be ok on subsequent cleans (but you need to keep it clean). If you don't clean the top frame properly, rain can hit it and the dirt on the frame will run down onto the glass below. If the frame is clean then the rain should make no difference (in general, rain water is clean).

The only problem I have found with rubber seals is when they oxidise. You can tell this by licking your finger and wiping over the rubber. If your finger is black, then the seal has oxidised. In my opinion, I would walk away and find another customer. This is just my opinion but you have to be very careful how you clean these and most customers won't appreciate the extra hassle involved.

Hope this is helpful.

Good luck

PS, If you think you have a problem window then clean the whole house.
Then come back to the problem window and rinse it again (but don't touch the top frame, 10mm below the top of the glass, yes miss out the top 10mm of the glass.)

Regards  Robbo

[Splash & dash]

Do you all clean the top frame on every clean and then move directly onto the glass below. I tend to just do the top frame when its looking a bit dirty, possibly every 3-4 cleans, but this then makes it almost like a first clean as i move round each frame first and then come back to the first window when the drips have stopped. i was told a long time ago to avoid the top frames as much as possible as it will only cause problems?

Hi Chopsie, I clean every 8 weeks.

Yes, I clean the top frame on every clean.

Once or twice across the top frame with water on a fairly high flow.

I then proceed to clean the horizontal top opener, right around the little window frame (if there is one) and then the rest of the frame, down the sides etc (but not the bottom sill).  So fundamentally, i've cleaned all the frame (but not the sill).

Then I clean the glass, start with top opener (if there is one) twice over with a brush and a quick rinse. Then the window opposite the top opener (two or three times, horizontally, across the top of the glass and the bit of rubber and frame above it) spread your brush so it covers both the top of the glass and the frame above.

Then up and down over the glass; go over it twice and then a quick rinse. When you go over the glass, you agitate the dirt (make sure you get right down the sides and into the corners), when you rinse, you rinse off all the dirty water.

Then come back to the window below the top opener and repeat as above.

Then clean the plastic just below the window (once across), then turn your water off.

Now you can wipe your brush along the window seal (once or twice, up to you).

So basically, I have cleaned all the frame first (except the sill) then cleaned the glass in a logical order that minimises drips onto the glass below.  Then I cleaned the window seal, with the water turned off to minimise drips onto the window below.

If your first clean is good and you are methodical in your subsequent cleans, you should be ok.

I understand you were told not to clean the top frames. I disagree, if you clean it thoroughly on your first clean then you should be ok on subsequent cleans (but you need to keep it clean). If you don't clean the top frame properly, rain can hit it and the dirt on the frame will run down onto the glass below. If the frame is clean then the rain should make no difference (in general, rain water is clean).

The only problem I have found with rubber seals is when they oxidise. You can tell this by licking your finger and wiping over the rubber. If your finger is black, then the seal has oxidised. In my opinion, I would walk away and find another customer. This is just my opinion but you have to be very careful how you clean these and most customers won't appreciate the extra hassle involved.

Hope this is helpful.

Good luck

PS, If you think you have a problem window then clean the whole house.
Then come back to the problem window and rinse it again (but don't touch the top frame, 10mm below the top of the glass, yes miss out the top 10mm of the glass.)

Regards  Robbo









At last someone who knows what they are doing rather than the splash and dash brigade

[chopsie]

Thanks you for that information robbo333, I appreciate you taking the time to write all of that. I’ll be hitting top frames hard from now on. Cheers everyone

[Slacky]

I remember a few years back having a conversation with someone on here about cleaning vents. They claimed they could clean vents without leaving runs on the glass I reckoned otherwise.

I now believe you can clean vents without leaving anything on the glass. Its knowledge and technique.

[dazmond]

I remember a few years back having a conversation with someone on here about cleaning vents. They claimed they could clean vents without leaving runs on the glass I reckoned otherwise.

I now believe you can clean vents without leaving anything on the glass. Its knowledge and technique.

ive never had a problem with vents however i dont squirt water up them.


ive said it before and ill say it again some top frames will cause you trouble if you clean them with wfp.its nothing to do with splash and dash(although i do that from time to time depending how dirty the windows are).

main culprits are wooden/aluminium window frames but certain plastic windows with badly fitted rubber seals will cause runs sometimes.luckily i havent got too many like these but i still have them.its less hassle to miss them out.

check you work lads and you might be surprised.......

[Dry Clean]

Cleaning vents isn't a black and white issue, some vents will come up perfect every time some will always cause problems and
others will be ok one clean and terrible the next, experience and a good technique will certainly minimise any potential problems
but it certainly wont remove them completely.
As with a lot of things in this game what works for one might not work for another and just because your getting away with something doesnt mean you are doing it right.
That said I have started to notice that a lot of wfp'ers in my neck of the woods have stopped cleaning above vents altogether
which I think is a bad thing, theres always a way even if you dont want to put water above them.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

I would just be aware that in your marketing material, if you say you clean all the frames not just the glass, that you actually clean all the frames not just parts of it.

[Smudger]

There's alotof silly nonsense talk on this thread, especially saying how skipping on top frame is poor workmanship and how someones customer would complain if they themselves missed the top frame. What a load of ollocks.

My work is cleaned on a 4week rotation and for arguement sake I have done a video showing how clean my windows and yes how clean my frames are.  Therefore I dont need to clean the top frame or even the frame on every visit when they pay me to clean their glass window! Because of this they may be cleaned every 8 weeks instead and the only exception to this are my houses out in the sticks where the frames do in deed  need cleaning every visit. This is simply common sense.

In the past when I was trad cleaning, I gave my customers 2 prices. One for the windows to be cleaned and a double price for the frames to be cleaned as well. This made business sense, as it took longer to clean frames trad way and windows and it made money. Thats what running  a  business is all about, making money.

Lol
Funny how ONLY your house  needs the frames cleaning......

Please make he frames are cleaned every visit too risky trying to leave a dirty tide line along the top which will bing down dirt when the t gets wet - part of our customer service is to clean the entire frame so it’s done every time if cleaned correctly you won’t get run lines

On first cleans apply some tfr to you he top of the frame and rubber seals and scrub older seals full of crib and washing up liquid from the trad  brigade will run black - keeps scrubbing until water goes clear then wash entire window as normal, no runs no drip marks and when you return for the next clean these seals will run clear water - same as vents etc

Preparation is key for good easy ongoing cleans

Darran

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Bit of a coincidence today relating to this thread.  I was cleaning a house on a private estate when a lady from the house opposite came out and said to me "after watching you clean l would like to join your round please because I saw you clean frames too and they look fab" 

She went on to say my last window cleaner only cleaned the glass and felt it was not right and felt cheated. 

Honestly.  This DID happen this morning and made me chuckle to myself.

[Smudger]

Frames are important part of the job

Darran

[Splash & dash]

Bit of a coincidence today relating to this thread.  I was cleaning a house on a private estate when a lady from the house opposite came out and said to me "after watching you clean l would like to join your round please because I saw you clean frames too and they look fab" 

She went on to say my last window cleaner only cleaned the glass and felt it was not right and felt cheated. 

Honestly.  This DID happen this morning and made me chuckle to myself.

This thread is certainly showing who does the job properly customers and potential customers do watch us working , I had a customer who had cctv on his property phone me and thank us for doing all the windows and frames on his house at the time he was at his main property in Australia he sacked the previous wi Dow cleaner as he wasn’t doing the bathroom windows and missing out frame tops , we didn’t realise we were being filmed at the time but it just goes to show doing a thorough job each time weather the customer is there or nor payes off

[nathankaye]

There's alotof silly nonsense talk on this thread, especially saying how skipping on top frame is poor workmanship and how someones customer would complain if they themselves missed the top frame. What a load of ollocks.

My work is cleaned on a 4week rotation and for arguement sake I have done a video showing how clean my windows and yes how clean my frames are.  Therefore I dont need to clean the top frame or even the frame on every visit when they pay me to clean their glass window! Because of this they may be cleaned every 8 weeks instead and the only exception to this are my houses out in the sticks where the frames do in deed  need cleaning every visit. This is simply common sense.

In the past when I was trad cleaning, I gave my customers 2 prices. One for the windows to be cleaned and a double price for the frames to be cleaned as well. This made business sense, as it took longer to clean frames trad way and windows and it made money. Thats what running  a  business is all about, making money.

Lol
Funny how ONLY your house  needs the frames cleaning......

Please make he frames are cleaned every visit too risky trying to leave a dirty tide line along the top which will bing down dirt when the t gets wet - part of our customer service is to clean the entire frame so it’s done every time if cleaned correctly you won’t get run lines

On first cleans apply some tfr to you he top of the frame and rubber seals and scrub older seals full of crib and washing up liquid from the trad  brigade will run black - keeps scrubbing until water goes clear then wash entire window as normal, no runs no drip marks and when you return for the next clean these seals will run clear water - same as vents etc

Preparation is key for good easy ongoing cleans

Darran

Sorry Darren,  but you may have miss read my post.
" my houses"   as in plural and part of my round.    Not in the meaning of my actual home I live in.

[Simon Trapani]

Yep, been a real eye opener & explains a lot of peoples problems with runs, spotting,  fan jets, amount of jobs done in a day etc. All of frames & glass for me every time on every job as if the customer is stood behind me. Vents every time also. Some cleaners can’t even be bothered to turn their brush head down to rest square on the glass especially in confined spaces. They’re shooting water up the glass ffs.

Robbo’s comments are spot on as are Reflection’s.

If we’re talking parts per million affecting the clean then you have to clean the top of the frames. You can’t rinse to the top rubber on the first floor or above & not pick up any dirt. You can’t be that accurate. Even if it’s light dust it will affect it. Yes you might get away with it sometimes, especially those that clean 4 weekly. And yes you’ll get the odd bad seal or badly painted wooden window but they are few and far between. Too many splash & dashers.

[Dry Clean]

Bit of a coincidence today relating to this thread.  I was cleaning a house on a private estate when a lady from the house opposite came out and said to me "after watching you clean l would like to join your round please because I saw you clean frames too and they look fab" 

She went on to say my last window cleaner only cleaned the glass and felt it was not right and felt cheated. 

Honestly.  This DID happen this morning and made me chuckle to myself.

This thread is certainly showing who does the job properly customers and potential customers do watch us working , I had a customer who had cctv on his property phone me and thank us for doing all the windows and frames on his house at the time he was at his main property in Australia he sacked the previous wi Dow cleaner as he wasn’t doing the bathroom windows and missing out frame tops , we didn’t realise we were being filmed at the time but it just goes to show doing a thorough job each time weather the customer is there or nor payes off

SHOCK, after reading that in future I will think twice when peeing in the customers flower beds, who I'm I kidding when you need to pee you need to pee.

[nathankaye]

Bit of a coincidence today relating to this thread.  I was cleaning a house on a private estate when a lady from the house opposite came out and said to me "after watching you clean l would like to join your round please because I saw you clean frames too and they look fab" 

She went on to say my last window cleaner only cleaned the glass and felt it was not right and felt cheated. 

Honestly.  This DID happen this morning and made me chuckle to myself.

Were tbey trad cleaners or wfp though?  Im guessing trad as all the houses that have wfp cleaners should have nice clean frames.  Beit if they are cleaned 4wkly 8wkly

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Bit of a coincidence today relating to this thread.  I was cleaning a house on a private estate when a lady from the house opposite came out and said to me "after watching you clean l would like to join your round please because I saw you clean frames too and they look fab" 

She went on to say my last window cleaner only cleaned the glass and felt it was not right and felt cheated. 

Honestly.  This DID happen this morning and made me chuckle to myself.

Were tbey trad cleaners or wfp though?  Im guessing trad as all the houses that have wfp cleaners should have nice clean frames.  Beit if they are cleaned 4wkly 8wkly

Not sure as i did not want to quiz her too much.  She's booked me 4 weekly. 

On investigation the top frames and sills were a total mess.  The side frames seemed ok other than needing a maintenance clean.   So I assume it was wfp. 

However no matter what the method is the customer has a right to a quality service. 

[Simon Trapani]

Bit of a coincidence today relating to this thread.  I was cleaning a house on a private estate when a lady from the house opposite came out and said to me "after watching you clean l would like to join your round please because I saw you clean frames too and they look fab" 

She went on to say my last window cleaner only cleaned the glass and felt it was not right and felt cheated. 

Honestly.  This DID happen this morning and made me chuckle to myself.

Were tbey trad cleaners or wfp though?  Im guessing trad as all the houses that have wfp cleaners should have nice clean frames.  Beit if they are cleaned 4wkly 8wkly

Or obviously not Nathan. Because from what we’ve been reading on this thread, not every wfp’er is cleaning all of the frame all of the time, including yourself. Could have been either.

[nathankaye]

Bit of a coincidence today relating to this thread.  I was cleaning a house on a private estate when a lady from the house opposite came out and said to me "after watching you clean l would like to join your round please because I saw you clean frames too and they look fab" 

She went on to say my last window cleaner only cleaned the glass and felt it was not right and felt cheated. 

Honestly.  This DID happen this morning and made me chuckle to myself.

Were tbey trad cleaners or wfp though?  Im guessing trad as all the houses that have wfp cleaners should have nice clean frames.  Beit if they are cleaned 4wkly 8wkly

Or obviously not Nathan. Because from what we’ve been reading on this thread, not every wfp’er is cleaning all of the frame all of the time, including yourself. Could have been either.

Myself and ones who have said they skip frames or the top of the frame have done so because they are clean. Therefore this person would see she had clean frames and clean windows. So if the frames are dirty then its fair to say its a traditional cleaner.

When I was trad, when it came to cleaning the frames and especially the top frame it took ages. Also when doing the upstairs top frames you hadto make sure you had plenty of water on your mop and in the bucket on belt to do a good job. Then using the wet scrim, i would finish cleaning the frame.   If a was just cleaning the windows, i would mop the glass, but the ends ofthe mop would also wet the side frames and so after blading the water off I would again use the wet scrim for the sill and a quick wipe on the side frames. But not every trad cleaner would do this

[Simon Trapani]

I cleaned glass & sills only when trad else I would’ve been there all day.

[Splash & dash]

Yep, been a real eye opener & explains a lot of peoples problems with runs, spotting,  fan jets, amount of jobs done in a day etc. All of frames & glass for me every time on every job as if the customer is stood behind me. Vents every time also. Some cleaners can’t even be bothered to turn their brush head down to rest square on the glass especially in confined spaces. They’re shooting water up the glass ffs.

Robbo’s comments are spot on as are Reflection’s.

If we’re talking parts per million affecting the clean then you have to clean the top of the frames. You can’t rinse to the top rubber on the first floor or above & not pick up any dirt. You can’t be that accurate. Even if it’s light dust it will affect it. Yes you might get away with it sometimes, especially those that clean 4 weekly. And yes you’ll get the odd bad seal or badly painted wooden window but they are few and far between. Too many splash & dashers.

Exelent post glad Ime not the only one who feels this way , come on lads it’s not difficult to do a proper job I think this may explain why window cleaners are viewed by many as unskilled up your game and prove you are professional and charge accordingly

[Dry Clean]

I use cold water no additives an extreme brush with 2 jets and occasionally I let the tds go above zero, its not possible for me to
do a proper job with that combination so no point in worrying about a few weeks worth of dust on the top of a frame.

[NWH]

I do the tops as and when they need it or every other clean,it makes me laugh when I look at some places like blocks of flats near a road etc you can see where the WCs have never done the top frames ever.Its so noticeable the tops are almost black with soot and the sides are colegate white lol 😂

[nathankaye]

I do understand the mixed and varied views on here. But to say that ones who dont clean an already clean top frame is not being professional....... I dont understand that view point
Or how cleaning an already clean top frame makes us viewed as skilled compared to unskilled.

Haha it reminds me of a customers who had a pop at me back when trad cleaning. I went to collect on a customer in evening who accused me of not cleaning his windows because of a dirty frame.  I Reminded him that as we agreed I would clean his windows for X amount and when he wanted the frames doing to let me know and the fee is doubled.
After that, the next 2 cleans I just cleaned the frames only and not the glass! He paid me just the same because in his head, a shiny white frame also means clean windows and they certainly needed cleaning  by the 3rd visit.     

[Splash & dash]

I do understand the mixed and varied views on here. But to say that ones who dont clean an already clean top frame is not being professional....... I dont understand that view point
Or how cleaning an already clean top frame makes us viewed as skilled compared to unskilled.

Haha it reminds me of a customers who had a pop at me back when trad cleaning. I went to collect on a customer in evening who accused me of not cleaning his windows because of a dirty frame.  I Reminded him that as we agreed I would clean his windows for X amount and when he wanted the frames doing to let me know and the fee is doubled.
After that, the next 2 cleans I just cleaned the frames only and not the glass! He paid me just the same because in his head, a shiny white frame also means clean windows and they certainly needed cleaning  by the 3rd visit.     

If you took your car to the car wash and the roof and bonnet weren’t washed Ime sure you would complain and say that you had paid to have the whole car washed not just the doors and boot , by the same principal most cleaners claim to do the frames as well so if you dont do the tops weather they look dirty or not the job that you are charging the customer for hasent been done , let’s face it generally the window glass isn’t usually that bad on a 4 weekly clean but you clean the glass , so why not the frames to in fact I think it’s easier to do the lot rather than try and keep the water off the top but there you go what would I know only been doing it 20 years 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[dazmond]

missing the odd top frame doesnt make you a crap window cleaner!i do clean most top frames(doors and sills as well)but some are best avoided.

[jonny thompson]

If a top frame leaves  water lines , marks , etc on the glass regardless of how often or who cleans it then in my view you stay clear of frame, anyone who says they haven’t got certain windows like this must be either not checking their work or have a tiny round

[NWH]

That’s spot on I clean some and regardless of cleaning the whole frame and window everytime they still leave marks,once  I’ve got a window to a standard I just maintain the whole window.

[chopsie]

well...........thats cleared that one up.........glad i asked lol 

[Steve Newres]

But if you clean the top frame with problem rubbers you have a chance of leaving windows with water lines on and bleeding frames, so your not actually doing  the job properly, clean glass or clean top frame, yes you get both on most windows but not all like your suggesting

If you take your time on the first clean and I accept it does take twice as long you won’t have any problems we do every property the same way domestic and commercial and believe me we do some seriously large commercial buildings and I can count on the fingers of one hand how many problems we have had in 19 years : it’s all about technique and how you do the clean , some rubbers are more prone to bleeding than others but the rubber is behind the frame how on earth can that affect the glass as the water will run down the side of the window you can get track lines from vents directly above a pain of glass but again we flush all vents on the first clean being careful not to flood water inside the house again after a thourogh first Clean never get any issues this was how I was taught to do it and have always done this way of cleaning and very rarely get a problem so it does work , but as I say everyone to there own way of doing it I think this is why we are picking up so much new work as most of our new customers are complaining about their current window cleaner doing a poor job frames not cleaned properly run marks spots etc , I don’t care how anyone cleans there customers windows : all I was trying to do was share my experience as to how to avoid the issues that continue to be brought up on hear this way of cleaning does work there are so many so called window cleaners who have no idear how to clean a window they think it’s easy money squirt a bit of water around and then wonder why there’s issues , it’s not rocket science to do this job anyone can do it but like all things so ways work and some will cause you problems , if you do t clean the top of 5he frame each time the dirt up there is minimal I accept but when rain Water runs off the frame onto the glass it will take the dirt with it leaving spotting and track lines , so for 3 seconds per window why would you not clean it each time?.

Unless the frames are flush with the walls which is seldom the case then rain water isnt going to get anywhere near the top of the frame, I have vents that you could empty your tank cleaning and they will still leave runs and spotting, technique will only take you so far but a quality shiner will also know when its best not to put water on a top frame.

I have to agree with this. I clean the top frame of every window without vents (except poorly painted wood) but will clean those with vents on a case by case basis. 

[P @ F]

I would just be aware that in your marketing material, if you say you clean all the frames not just the glass, that you actually clean all the frames not just parts of it.

Just as well that i am not like all these other cowboys on here , or i would be proper fecked 

[DeLuce]

I think what really helps set-up for future cleans is a good solid first clean, like Smudger said in an earlier post.
Whenever I get a new customer, I charge more for the first clean and dose up the frames with Virosol. Give em  a thorough scrub, Rinse off.. It also helps get rid of oxidised rubber seals that would leach drips after departure.
There will always be a rogue window(s) or so on your round that you'll need to come back to after doing the rest. Just make a mental note.