[SCCS-Stoke]

Hi guys I cleaned a wool carpet yesterday and customer just called back to say sections of the carpet have gone brown. I used spm powered pre spray from world of clean and acid rinse it all out.

Can someone please tell me what they think went wrong and how to remedy this?

[CleanerCarpets]

Sounds like browning - if you used acid rinse it shouldn't be browning from chemical burning so that would indicate its browning from taking too long to dry or it was over wet and its cellulosic browning wicking up from the backing.

I'd recommend an application of a strong acid rinse brushed in and then get it dry as quickly as possible.

[CleanerCarpets]

What acid rinse you using?

[pro-fresh]

This has always worked for me in the past http://www.restormate.co.uk/Browning-Treatment-Coffee-Stain-Remover

[SCCS-Stoke]

I did use Final phase acid rinse in the tank.

[SCCS-Stoke]

ok and what acid rinse would you recommend

[CleanerCarpets]

Final Phase will be good - go on Cleantalk or ring Nick and ask him what strength you need it at. Applying it at debrowning strength and brushing in and then getting dry asap should fix it. Do you have a blower to help with the drying?

[CleanerCarpets]

Ah, just looked - you've posted it on CT and Nick replied. Do as Nick suggested

[SCCS-Stoke]

Final Phase will be good - go on Cleantalk or ring Nick and ask him what strength you need it at. Applying it at debrowning strength and brushing in and then getting dry asap should fix it. Do you have a blower to help with the drying?

I haven't Got a blower yet. I don't know what to do?

[Mike Halliday]

So you haven’t seen it yet? Might be browning from leaving it wet, but could they be talking about dye stains from furniture feet?

How did they describe it?

Any browning treatment should solve it, but you could go down the oxybrite/fibre buff /foam  shampoo route

5th one down... http://www.prochem-uk.com/shopimages/pdf/cthstainrg.pdf

[SCCS-Stoke]

So you haven’t seen it yet? Might be browning from leaving it wet, but could they be talking about dye stains from furniture feet?

How did they describe it?

Any browning treatment should solve it, but you could go down the oxybrite/fibre buff /foam  shampoo route

5th one down... http://www.prochem-uk.com/shopimages/pdf/cthstainrg.pdf

LOl its my first browning issue since I started carpet cleaning. Customer was not very happy His response is " its awful,the carpet has changed colour and all those places you over wet have dried and turned brown" I have to go back on Wednesday to have a look and it and then re-book on Sunday to fix it. I just wanted to have an idea on how to fix it before I get there.

[CleanerCarpets]

unusual for the customer to describe 'over wetting' - sounds like they have some knowledge - may have spoken to another carpet cleaner for their opinion on what could be wrong and they have said over wetting

where are you based? i'm in Tamworth and you can borrow my dryer/blower if you are close enough? My post code is B77 1PQ

[SCCS-Stoke]

unusual for the customer to describe 'over wetting' - sounds like they have some knowledge - may have spoken to another carpet cleaner for their opinion on what could be wrong and they have said over wetting

where are you based? i'm in Tamworth and you can borrow my dryer/blower if you are close enough? My post code is B77 1PQ

That will be nice but I will PM you on Wednesday after I have gone to see the situation.

[SCCS-Stoke]

Before Cleaning Images

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After Cleaning Images

[CleanerCarpets]

What psi were you rinsing at?

[SCCS-Stoke]

What psi were you rinsing at?

cant remember for sure but I don't hit my carpet at more than 150psi cos I don't own dryers so I cant afford the luxury of higher psi .

[MarkSutcliffe]

surely a customer would have no idea what Over Wetting means...

[Mike Halliday]

Yep you’ve cocked-up there

The shape of the staining around the edge under the plugs looks like it is over wetting from prespraying rather than  from rinsing, what did you put your prespray down with?

Don’t use a rug  section as a true comparison of the carpet, the carpet will never look the same as a new piece of carpet.

It’s a tricky situation if you had done that to my carpets I wouldn’t let you touch the carpets again, plus looking at what you’ve done i’m Doubting your  ability to put it right, I mean this with the upmost respect. This why I think you should always be friendly with your local competitors , you need someone with more knowledge & skill than you to accompany you to this  job and help you sort it out

It needs a major restoration with an acid treatment,  this is a big job and you need to make the decision whether to attempt it or hand it over to your insurance company

[Raymondo]

Agree with what Mike as said. If you want to attempt to solve the problem yourself have a chat with John Kelly at Restormate there maybe products from Chemspec or Alltec range and others that John suppliers that may be able to solve the problem don't tie yourself down to 1 supplier.

But it probably going to be an insurance job but thank you for sharing the issue sometimes its a wake up call for all of us when it goes wrong we all learn and this job we learn something every day.

[SCCS-Stoke]

Agree with what Mike as said. If you want to attempt to solve the problem yourself have a chat with John Kelly at Restormate there maybe products from Chemspec or Alltec range and others that John suppliers that may be able to solve the problem don't tie yourself down to 1 supplier.

But it probably going to be an insurance job but thank you for sharing the issue sometimes its a wake up call for all of us when it goes wrong we all learn and this job we learn something every day.

yeah am actually thinking of calling the insurance than getting involved and making customer more angry

[SCCS-Stoke]

yeah am actually thinking of calling the insurance than getting involved and making customer more angry by creating more mess.

[Raymondo]

How many of the carpets are effected it's not an expensive carpet is it just a landing and staircase.

By the time you paid the excess on the insurance and the hassle just see if it's worth just replacing them.

[SCCS-Stoke]

How many of the carpets are effected it's not an expensive carpet is it just a landing and staircase.

By the time you paid the excess on the insurance and the hassle just see if it's worth just replacing them.

well according to customer, the problem runs across the entire 5 bedroom house. I don't know if I can afford to pay for a wool carpet. plus customer was thinking of changing the carpets if I could not get rid of the draught marks anyway.

[SCCS-Stoke]

well according to customer, the problem runs across the entire 5 bedroom house. I don't know if I can afford to pay for a wool carpet. plus customer was thinking of changing the carpets if I could not get rid of the draught marks anyway.

[Raymondo]

Sometimes it's not worth getting the insurance company involved. The excess is probaley 250.00. If they say they were going to change the carpets any way if you could not get the daught marks out see if they will take whatever your excess is towards the new carpets and give them what you charged them back. They won't get new for old.

If they will.make sure you take some of the carpet up to see if you can correct it at home trying different products or send some to other carpet cleaner to see if they can correct it.

We replaced a carpet a few years ago after a pull in a loop pile got worse.

[John Kelly]

Don't use boosted Microsplitters on light wool carpets. PH is too high.

[edward coller]

I commiserate with you, its not a great feeling to have a bad outcome, sort it whichever way, learn ,learn from it and move on. Weve all had some bloopers along the way, or at least I have. Simon

[MarkSutcliffe]

Where did you train ?

I've just seen your other post in FAQ asking what presprays can be used on wool carpets...

[Raymondo]

Don't use boosted Microsplitters on light wool carpets. PH is too high.

Good advice from John as always these boosted microspliter (spm or rpm) have a ph of 10 to 11 so too high for wool I personally wont use them on wool each time you try a new product don't except what the supplier or the coshh says test it for yourselves with some ph paper or a meter.

[Mike Halliday]

I don’t totally agree with the ‘don’t use high ph on wool’  i’ve Often used high ph on wall with no problem whatsoever .... but I know what i’m doing’ .....inexperience cause problems not chemicals or machinery.

Stokey caused this problem not boosted SPM

We should use what we need to do the job if the customer has trashed the carpet then restoration cleaning is required,

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I’d say it’s not just ph that has caused that but over wetting I’d recommend you change your technique and let less product dwell and do the work, I’d look at a reducer to aid in removal.

[Dave_Lee]

I hate cleaning those carpets, they always look patchy after cleaning but dry out evenly. Clearly as said you have over wet in an effort to get rid of those carpet knee kicker filtration marks. Sounds like they have got the bug for a new carpet and expect you to pay for it/them.
Hopefully you've got 'item being work upon' cover, and not just 'public liability'. Even so your excess will probably be £500.. which you will have to pay per claim.
They, however are not entitled to a new carpet, as insurance cover is on an indemnity basis - what the carpet was worth before you touched it. Fortunately you took before photos, they can give the insurance company a better idea on working out settlement and by the looks of it, they weren't worth much.
If it comes to it after attempting to rectify, If it was my I'd offer them £400.. towards new ones. That way you'de probably save £100.. on your excess and avoid your next premium being hiked.
Dave.

[John Kelly]

High PH and overwetting go hand in hand. Overwetting using a neutral or acidic product sometimes won't cause browning but overwetting and high PH always will. And I have seen carpets, mainly white wool which have been scorched just by a high PH pre-spray.