[nathankaye]

Ive just installed my 2nd panel to the van and reinstalled my old one. (My ladders can still be put on the roof bars to the left of the panals as n when I need them) So now they are both angeled. So at the moment I have a 20w and a 50w, (both monocrystalline)  together they pull a max of 4amps. This time I have fitted the volt n amp meters so I can take better readings like P&F did. But also I will be using a Mppt controller as well, which is on order.



I do love tinkering.
I also have the small 10w panel which im also planning on using.
So far since late August i have only bench charged my battery once. But planning on another charge soon.

This is the mppt controller:
https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/10A-MPPT-solar-charge-controller-with-LCD-screen-for-12V-24V-systems-up-to-100V-/142452559879?txnId=1465143067004

Hows everyone else getting on with their solar panal projects?? 

[paul alan]

you can stop window cleaning for a living soon mate.....and start selling power to the national grid instead.

[nathankaye]

This is what changed my mind into using a mppt controller
https://youtu.be/wmyuxKmlBCk

[Slacky]

Hold on, what about the scratched glass thread, we've still not had a CIU conclusion on the sand/brush/glass experiment.

You need to slow down; some of us take this all very seriously indeed and look upon hopping from one thread to another in a very dim light.

[nathankaye]

Hold on, what about the scratched glass thread, we've still not had a CIU conclusion on the sand/brush/glass experiment.

You need to slow down; some of us take this all very seriously indeed and look upon hopping from one thread to another in a very dim light.

The opportunity is there for the taking slacky, if you want to add to the video by adding your own findings then please do so 👍
As regards feed back on the scratch glass, Im still waiting on any feedback to come from the owner after sending granvilles message.

But come on, you guys have got opinions on just about everything so more threads wont pose a problem
 

[P @ F]

Looks like you got a copy of the Epever tracer there Nath , should be ok though , i think its like the spring flow control , they all buy it and stick their own face on it .
Photonic isnt the usual Ebay rubbish as im sure you know , having the panels from them as you do .
One thing i will mention though is , if you are thinking of running the panels in series to up the volts to give you more MPPT conversion then dont expect too much gain as you have mismatched panels , i did the same and found that the MPPT control only took the power from the panel in my array with the greatest Amp output , kind of turning the MPPT into a PWM .
Try by all means , it wont hurt to test it .
You may find a look at the AltE videos and a guy called Adam Welch (solar shed) on youtube well worth a view , they both do various tests with mixed panels with slightly differing results .

[P @ F]

I have an 80w and a 40w panel and find they give way more from a parralell wire up .  

[nathankaye]

I have an 80w and a 40w panel and find they give way more from a parralell wire up .

This is what I have done at the moment when installing.  As I have ran in into the volt/amp meter but waiting on the mppt controller before I connect it upto the batteries.
So I've connected my panels to the roof bar to give a slight angle. Lol im sure Im going to get some looks when driving her to work.  How have you connected the 2 panels?   From looking at one of your previous vids you opted for laying it flat. Have you done same with having 2 panels?

[P @ F]

I have an 80w and a 40w panel and find they give way more from a parralell wire up .

This is what I have done at the moment when installing.  As I have ran in into the volt/amp meter but waiting on the mppt controller before I connect it upto the batteries.
So I've connected my panels to the roof bar to give a slight angle. Lol im sure Im going to get some looks when driving her to work.  How have you connected the 2 panels?   From looking at one of your previous vids you opted for laying it flat. Have you done same with having 2 panels?

I do still have them both flat , I was going to find a way of getting them to tilt but couldnt be bothered in the end as i was getting enough power in to keep me fully charged .
As they are both the same width i was able to just join them with galvanised right angle .
Pic here but my phone wont zoom for some reason !

 

[Og]

Probably better hanging them on the side of the van, at this time of year. Or park on a steep hill.

[nathankaye]

Im sure I got more from laying it flat on the roof.  Think im going to have a play around but Im still waiting on the mppt controller, so this is just the input reading going straight into the battery;



But it isnt a great day for the sun today


Thank fully it wasnt a busy day at all for me today.

[P @ F]

How long had you been out when that pic was taken Nath ?

[nathankaye]

Ive got both panels wired together (red on red and black on black) then straight into the amp reader and then straight to the battery.
I hooked it onto the battery about 9am and that picture was taken about 3pm.
Though I was parked in the more shaded spots today.

[P @ F]

Ive got both panels wired together (red on red and black on black) then straight into the amp reader and then straight to the battery.
I hooked it onto the battery about 9am and that picture was taken about 3pm.
Though I was parked in the more shaded spots today.

That does just go to show how pants solar can be ! , 8 hours of collecting for 1.6 amps of power !
That would run my pump for 20 mins non stop at my settings !

I am wired the same way , and can pull i think 7 amps max with my 120w array  , i was parked in the sun for 5 out of the 7 houses today , i started at 10.30 and was done by 1 .
Out of that the pump took about 6 amps , and i got 5 amps in from 10.30 to about 4 , so 1 amp down overall . 
So solar does definately pay to have , if you have the sun .
I have though had days with nothing in !
You had 1.6 amps in 8 hours --- 0.2 amps an hour .   
 I had   5.0 amps in 5.5 hours---0.9 amps an hour . 4 x better yield with double the wattage panels and MPPT .
It will be good to see what you get in once you have the MPPT fitted , thats one of the reasons i got extra watt meters , 1 shows what comes from the MPPT and one shows what the pump has taken out . 

[nathankaye]

Thats one of the reasons why I was parked in the shadier parts (if that was possible) today as Im waiting for the controller before being more mindful of where and how I park. As the larger new panel is at the back, facing forward and so I want this to gain the most sun.
Ive just ordered a 2nd watt meter for the very same reason. Also the seller hasnt many of them left

[P @ F]

Thats one of the reasons why I was parked in the shadier parts (if that was possible) today as Im waiting for the controller before being more mindful of where and how I park. As the larger new panel is at the back, facing forward and so I want this to gain the most sun.
Ive just ordered a 2nd watt meter for the very same reason. Also the seller hasnt many of them left

I just love ebay sellers , Last one usually means a warehouse full of the blighters 
It will be good to see your results once fitted up , i do plan to run series wiring  again just to be sure .

[nathankaye]

Question P&F ,  well asking for help actually as im no electrician by any means.
But ive connected brown on brown and blue on blue.  Then connected brown to red on the watt/amp meter source and blue to black accordingly.
The amp/watt meter starts its readings. But as soon as i connect the load to my battery (red to positive and black to negative) it shuts the meter off. Yet if i cross wire, so red to black and black to red the meter comes back on but the voltage input levels off to the battery voltage. So im taking this as  being completely wrong.

So for noe ive connected direct to battery whilst i wait for delivery of the controller but why is the above happening as I also thought the meter were one directional flow from source to load?

[P @ F]

Question P&F ,  well asking for help actually as im no electrician by any means.
But ive connected brown on brown and blue on blue.  Then connected brown to red on the watt/amp meter source and blue to black accordingly.
The amp/watt meter starts its readings. But as soon as i connect the load to my battery (red to positive and black to negative) it shuts the meter off. Yet if i cross wire, so red to black and black to red the meter comes back on but the voltage input levels off to the battery voltage. So im taking this as  being completely wrong.

So for noe ive connected direct to battery whilst i wait for delivery of the controller but why is the above happening as I also thought the meter were one directional flow from source to load?

Im not getting that Nath , it should work , it states how to wire on the booklet ?
I have had that issue myself when i was wiring up , but i cant remember what i did to do it !

All i can think is that in effect you are using both sides as SOURCE , Bat is a source of power and so is panel !
But this is how i am wired  in a roundabout way .
Panel lives and commons as yours , into source of watt meter 1 , then into + and - of Panel input of MPPT

Hold on , Wire diagram coming shortly !! 

[Spruce]

Question P&F ,  well asking for help actually as im no electrician by any means.
But ive connected brown on brown and blue on blue.  Then connected brown to red on the watt/amp meter source and blue to black accordingly.
The amp/watt meter starts its readings. But as soon as i connect the load to my battery (red to positive and black to negative) it shuts the meter off. Yet if i cross wire, so red to black and black to red the meter comes back on but the voltage input levels off to the battery voltage. So im taking this as  being completely wrong.

So for noe ive connected direct to battery whilst i wait for delivery of the controller but why is the above happening as I also thought the meter were one directional flow from source to load?

Im not getting that Nath , it should work , it states how to wire on the booklet ?
I have had that issue myself when i was wiring up , but i cant remember what i did to do it !

All i can think is that in effect you are using both sides as SOURCE , Bat is a source of power and so is panel !
But this is how i am wired  in a roundabout way .
Panel lives and commons as yours , into source of watt meter 1 , then into + and - of Panel input of MPPT

Hold on , Wire diagram coming shortly !! 

Does it make any difference to your readings if it went panel, MPPT controller, watt meter then battery? Your controller should stop current going back to the panel. My thoughts are that the MPPT controller does things to the incoming current that won't be reflected if the gauge is before it.

[nathankaye]

At the moment I waiting on the arrival of the MPPT, it should come in the next 2 days. Then Im setting it as panel -- wat meter -- MPTT -- battery.
Because as you said the controller will stop any reverse charge.

But at the moment I had panel--meter--battery
But if i connected negative to negative and then to battery negative and likewise for the positive I would get no reading what so ever on the meter. Yet if I connected the meter to the battery and crossed the wires over, the meter would work but its taking the readings from the battery.
If I disconnect from the battery the meter would show 20 odd volts coming in and goes through its cycles.  But if I cross the wires so negative from meter fo positive of battery it would show the voltage as that of the battery on the source end as well as the load end on the meter.

So Ive gave up and asked for help on here and just connected panel direct to the battery. That is untill what bit of sun we had dissappeared and then I unconnected it from the battery as it started to drain the battery then.

[nathankaye]

Completely seperate......kinda

This looks interesting. What are your thoughts???  Have you tried this P&F as you have 2 controllers i belief?

https://youtu.be/rBbVIiOBuT4

[P @ F]

Diagram is on way , what you say about meter after panel will only show what you are getting from the panel , what you really need is meter after MPPT , thats what is more important to know .
I have 1 after panel and 1 after MPPT to see what the MPPT is doing for me , I also have 1 to see what the pump and controller are using .
I have not put the after panel meter on the diagram , but im sure you can do that one yerself 
On way now !

[P @ F]

Yer tiz 

[P @ F]

You should have said you was getting one Nath , I got this spare one here doing nowt , only £20 !
Its not as efficient as my £80 Bluesolar beastie but it does convert Volts to extra Amps , i got a gap on the wall in the mancave for it me thinks 

[nathankaye]

You should have said you was getting one Nath , I got this spare one here doing nowt , only £20 !
Its not as efficient as my £80 Bluesolar beastie but it does convert Volts to extra Amps , i got a gap on the wall in the mancave for it me thinks 

Why not run 2 controllers?
This seems to work
https://youtu.be/rBbVIiOBuT4

[P @ F]

Completely seperate......kinda

This looks interesting. What are your thoughts???  Have you tried this P&F as you have 2 controllers i belief?

https://youtu.be/rBbVIiOBuT4

Yeah i saw that AltE vid , no matter how long i look at the wiring diagram for it , i cant seem to see what they have done 
The last thing i want to do is blow up my expensive controller .....
Maybe Spruce could put it in laymans terms for me 

[zesty]

I run a maplin 15 watt solar panel to my leisure battery, in the summer it’s amazing, never have to bench charge the battery.

Winter it’s a bit pants, but does work as a trickle charger.

Thinking of getting a second one, am I right in thinking I can wire them together? Eg red to red and black to black? Then into the battery terminals?

I’m no electrician!

Obviously it’s no where near as much power as you guys are getting, but for me it just helps keep the battery healthy, summer wise it’s always at full charge, sometimes raading over 14 volts  Not sure if that’s a bad thing!? All from a 15 watt maplin panel.

It’s apparently got a blocking diode in it which stops reverse Charging, not sure if it works or not!

[nathankaye]

I run a maplin 15 watt solar panel to my leisure battery, in the summer it’s amazing, never have to bench charge the battery.

Winter it’s a bit pants, but does work as a trickle charger.

Thinking of getting a second one, am I right in thinking I can wire them together? Eg red to red and black to black? Then into the battery terminals?

I’m no electrician!

Obviously it’s no where near as much power as you guys are getting, but for me it just helps keep the battery healthy, summer wise it’s always at full charge, sometimes raading over 14 volts  Not sure if that’s a bad thing!? All from a 15 watt maplin panel.

It’s apparently got a blocking diode in it which stops reverse Charging, not sure if it works or not!

Hiya I started in the same way and still have my 10wat panel with blocking diode which I used for quite a while. I simply used my flow controller to keep check on the voltage. Dependingb on what charger you use for the bench charge you wont be putting the amps back in the battery and especially not with the 15w panel. I didnt realise this untill I got a smart charger that carried on charging  after my basic one would have shown it to be fully charged.
So you will be better with a panel that will replace the ampage as your pump will take between 3 -5 amps per hour and the 15w at optimum level will be giving less than 1 or about 1amp per hour. So even though your battery is trickle charging its not being fully charged if you know what I mean

[zesty]

Yeah I get what you mean Nathan,

I bench charge with a ring smart charger, but surely the solar panel, if left on and the window cleaning equipment not used, would still eventually fully charge the battery? It seemed to in the summer...

[nathankaye]

Yeah I get what you mean Nathan,

I bench charge with a ring smart charger, but surely the solar panel, if left on and the window cleaning equipment not used, would still eventually fully charge the battery? It seemed to in the summer...

I did just the same, but if its left unchecked if the voltage goes higher than 15.5 (I think), its then damaging the battery. So you need to keep a close eye on it. But its more about the ampage and not the voltage in terms of keeping the battery in top condition.
If you look at the backnof your panel it will tell you the max amps per hour you could expect to get from the panel in optimum conditions and then look at your pump details to see how much amps your using from the battery. You can then work out how much amps you need to replace via the 12v charge.

Lol ive not long realised all of this myself as I had a 20w panel fixed on the roof and used my flow controller to keep an eye on the voltage and swear by it as can be seen in many back posts on CIU.  But due to P&F showing the volts and also spruce talking about it, Ive learnt to adjust and thats why I have got the 2nd bigger panel.

Then watch some you tube vids about PWM or MPPT controllers compared to feeding your battery direct.

These combinations of above has left me to completely change mine

[nathankaye]

MPPT controller arrived today and my second watt/amp meter and so I spent some time today fixing it together (wife took ill during night so I was at home with kids n dragged em all out 😂)

https://youtu.be/1M3Gu_MPGoc

[Spruce]

Yer tiz 

Your wiring diagragm of the power going into your pump controller and then the pump isn't correct. However, it won't alter the rest of the setup diagram. 

The black and red wire go into the controller. Then another pair of black and red wires go from the controller to the pump.

[Spruce]

Completely seperate......kinda

This looks interesting. What are your thoughts???  Have you tried this P&F as you have 2 controllers i belief?

https://youtu.be/rBbVIiOBuT4

Yeah i saw that AltE vid , no matter how long i look at the wiring diagram for it , i cant seem to see what they have done 
The last thing i want to do is blow up my expensive controller .....
Maybe Spruce could put it in laymans terms for me 

What she is saying is that you can run 2 charge controllers into one leisure battery if you need to.

She starts off by saying that you might consider this if you already have a solar array and you want to add more panels to it, but in doing so you will max out the controller that you already have. So you would leave the original setup as it was. Then you would add the next array and wire that to another charge controller. Then you join the outputs from both charge controllers together at the gauge which then goes into your battery.

She says that if you had the 2 working together in tandem then they equal the same result with just one controller. Well her results didn't quite show that (they were close but not exact) as there will be a little discrepancy because some power will get lost in the running of the second charge controller. But she's a sales person and its her job to promote the sale of solar panels. I've seen numerous of her videos and I can't remember one where she advised against a solar setup. With her, they are all pros and there are no cons to solar.

With P&F's controller, he hasn't reached to max input his controller will handle, so if he separated his panels and gave them each a controller, he would be slightly worse off with his charging rate. (No charge controller will be 100% efficient. Just generating a little warmth means lost power.)

If he did reach the maximum capacity of his controller in summer then it doesn't matter. Wasting a few amps at peak collecting time won't mean his battery won't be fully charged.
 

[Spruce]

For anyone thinking along the lines of solar the most important part of the setup is the charge controller.

To maximize the most from your panel you need a good one. There are numerous examples on YouTube of controllers claiming to be MPPT but barely are.
In my opinion Victron gets my vote. There are many others of equal quality, but, as I don't know which they are, for me it will be Victron every time.

The issue with window cleaner is that we are power hungry. In summer P&F will have no problem keeping his leisure battery full with his panels; in winter he is going to struggle.

I've linked the experiences of a narrowboater to show the difference in winter and summer solar performance. Unfortunately most solar users need the power the most in winter when their panels are performing badly due to the winter sun we have in this country.

I follow a couple of the around the world yacht blogs on YouTube. Even in the daily sunshine of the tropics these guys need additional wind power generators and they also use a sea generator just to keep on top of the power useage.
 Most of them also have a diesel generator as well. They also add additional charge into their battery bank when the run there propulsion engine in times of no wind.
.

[nathankaye]

The above is true, but theres still advantages to be had. This winter isnt working well for me but last winter we had a lot more sun and I managed quite well.
Im doing my 2nd bench charge since October tonight. So at least at the moment it isnt weekly. I do carry a 2nd leisure battery incase I end up needing it though, so I do have a back up plan and thats always in the van.

For me I enjoy fidling/tinkering rather than spending. I always have since being a wee boy........I get more satisfaction on doing things for myself. So having free power from the sun is amazing.  So perhaps from spring onwards and the weather changes were experiencing, ive not had to do any bench charging till recent. Saving my electricity cost for my immersion heater instead 😯  😂
So theres still benefits to be had because even split relay batteries will need a good bench charge from time to time.

[P @ F]

Yer tiz 

Your wiring diagragm of the power going into your pump controller and then the pump isn't correct. However, it won't alter the rest of the setup diagram. 

The black and red wire go into the controller. Then another pair of black and red wires go from the controller to the pump.

Yep you are right as usual !
It was just easier to draw it like that 

[P @ F]

Both Nathan and Spruce are right about Autumn/Winter , its not a walk in the park at all , on Tuesday i had 1.7 Amps in and 10 Amps out , today was 2 in and 7 out , but even so , today i used 5 Amps total , so i could carry on like that for 8 days and still be at half charge by the end of it , still in the safe zone maintenance wise , for me though its more about keeping the battery as full as i can whilst working to prevent the onset of calcification .
I think the next test for me is to bypass the MPPT on a bad day and run as Nathan used to with all power going straight to battery.
As long as i keep an eye on volts in not going over 14.5 i cant see an issue , got to be worth a test !

[nathankaye]

I like having the mppt controller and the watt/amp meter but its quite addictive. Im checkingbit more than I kept an eye on my voltage 
But today is quite rubbish with the sun and whennit is out, where I need to park is in the shadows 
So, im now parked in my local aldi which is on the estate where Im working. So ive strategically parked accross 2 bays diagonally to get the full sun whilst ive walked over road to the subway for a coffee. A chance for a quick boost!!

[nathankaye]

Thinking of maybe running the two panels seperate as I may be wrong but watching these amps is depressing today. It could be ignorance but im sure my panel did better flat and direct to the battery.

Today, and its been a steady but late start of a day. Plus ive been using the trolley so not a true normal day.
So amps in (from a 20w and a 50w) was 1.07AH    and I used 3.54 AH  (as ive used trolley a bit today for some jobs)

[P @ F]

When you say separately , how do you mean , what will go where ?

[nathankaye]

When you say separately , how do you mean , what will go where ?

1 panel to one controller then feed both to battery.

[P @ F]

When you say separately , how do you mean , what will go where ?

1 panel to one controller then feed both to battery.

So 1 through controller and 1 direct to battery ?

[nathankaye]

When you say separately , how do you mean , what will go where ?

1 panel to one controller then feed both to battery.

So 1 through controller and 1 direct to battery ?

1  panel to controller and then watt/amp meter to battery.
Then the 2nd panel to a seperate controller and then meter-battery.

[P @ F]

Not sure if that would do you any good Nath , cos if you have not got the sun in the first place then another MPPT will do you no good , it cant convert what isnt coming in , neither will 2 of them .
Instead of spending £60 on another MPPT to give you 25% extra off whatever is coming , i would be more inclined to add another £5 and get the 30w poly panel they do , that can bring in 1.71 amp peak , which is more than an extra MPPT will gain .
Wire all the panels in parralell and then to watt meter , then to MPPT , then to other watt meter , then to battery .
Dont take that as gospel , but i reckon that is the best chance of higher amps i think .
No doubt Mr Spruce will be along shortly to add his expertice to the mix 

[nathankaye]

The 20watt panel is at the front of the van angled to catch the sun from the rear of the van whilst the 50w panel is at the rear and angled forward.
The 20 watt panel has a blocking diode to stop reverse draw but the 50w doesnt. Lol Im not as clued up on electrics as you or spruce but I wondered if the 50watt panel isnt getting the sun butthe 20w is... Could the 50wat panel be drawing of 20w panel  before the MPPT takes it's share??

[P @ F]

The 20watt panel is at the front of the van angled to catch the sun from the rear of the van whilst the 50w panel is at the rear and angled forward.
The 20 watt panel has a blocking diode to stop reverse draw but the 50w doesnt. Lol Im not as clued up on electrics as you or spruce but I wondered if the 50watt panel isnt getting the sun butthe 20w is... Could the 50wat panel be drawing of 20w panel  before the MPPT takes it's share??

I think that could be an issue if wired in series , but if all in parralell and flat then you would know that you are pulling the max at any given time , all you could do then is tilt all panels to the same angle to improve the yield , if you got the 30w instead of the MPPT then you would only be 20w short of my setup , we will still get different amounts in but thats only down to geography.