[Plankton]

Issue with the controller powering off. I have changed the connections at the battery a number of times, checked the bullet connectors from the pump to the controller and they look immaculate. I recorded it on my phone to see if anything flashed up but it just powers off with no errors showing. At times it doesn't switch back on but tapping on the control panel seems to solve this.
Now the answer I believe is inside the controller but before I contact the supplier again could I be missing something. 

[Plankton]

Just to add, it's a Facelift compact system under a year old and it's been an issue for months. Battery is not on a split relay and always charged before it drops to low. I had spoke to them before and they said it could be a power issue and shutting off due to not enough amps getting through and could be down to the fuse holder being pulled when removing the battery. Checked that side and nothing appeared to be wrong but replaced it just in case and it's not made any difference. 

[Ian Sheppard]

Hi Alan

If you have checked through the wiring and fuse/holder and battery with all of this is good.  Can I ask when did the controller begin to display this issue? What had happened just prior to the issue beginning?  Also how old is the battery and how often is that charged?
It is possible the controller has suffered from a short circuit. This could cause the controller to power down in the way described. 

[Plankton]

It first happened at a block of flats and I thought someone was on the windup! kept going back and switching it on and checked the battery in case it moved in transit. Battery same as system bought late last November and charged frequently.
Spoke to their guys this afternoon again and he suggested bypassing the controller to see if it happens again, so I let it run in the drive for a while and disconnected it a couple of times and it's just kept going. I'll plug the controller in tomorrow and as soon as it happens I'll bypass it and run without it from there.
When I say months I mean six months easy.

[Ian Sheppard]

Thank you for the extra information Alan. The system and battery are 10 - 11 months old and the controller was working with no issue for 5 months or so. The battery is an 85AH that is charged frequently.  Bypassing the controller and running the pump direct from the battery will show if the issue is pump based or elsewhere. With the controller bypassed the pump should run flat out and you will have lots of water at the brush.

An 85AH battery will have a usable capacity of 50% or 42.5 amps, Below this the battery cells will degrade and not hold a charge as well.
Its likely the pump is drawing between 2 & 4 amps depending on he flow rate set. Based on usable capacity of 50% you will get 10 - 20 use before the battery needs recharging so I would suggest the battery be charged 2 - 3 times a week to maintain the cells in good condition. 

What you describe would suggest battery and pump are OK

The fact that the issue has been around for the last 5 months or so and is intermittent in nature and was ok for 5 months before that gives a clue.
My thinking is that the controller may have suffered from a short circuit around the 5 month mark and this has partially damaged the controller circuitry. After a period of use electronics warm up and as this happens a fault can become a resistor which would shut the controller down. As the fault cools the controller will turn back on again. 
I am thinking there is an intermittent fault on the power circuit of the controller. Can I ask around the time this first happened did the fuse blow?

As the controller is 10 months old you could return it direct to the manufacturer for inspection. This would leave you with out a controller for a few days but would allow us to get to the bottom of the issue.  Alternatively if your happy to take the front cover off and take a picture of the PCB It might show something which would identify the problem. You can email pictures to me or post them here.

[Plankton]

The battery supplied for some reason was a lower spec than advertised so will be less than your figures, but it's something I keep on top of. The fuse has been changed to rule out but no it never blew and the controller looks like a sealed unit as my picture shows describing it as a "hockey puck" when first bought. I'll try and copy http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1480709098_facelift3.jpg/

[Plankton]

I took the screws out from the panel on the tank which I didn't realise hold the controller together and didn't know it was a spring controller either. Here's the pic of the inside. Let me know if you need the other bit removed.

[Ian Sheppard]

Hi Alan

Thankyou for posting the image. Looking closely on the bottom left of the PCB between the marking M+ and +12 there appears to be what could be a black line across the power tracks. It may also be the way the light falls onto the PCB.  If that line is damage across the tracks it could be the reason the controller powers down on occasion. As I understand the controller is coming back to us via Facelift so we can inspect it. Once we receive the unit back we can see what has happened and why

[Plankton]

They said they would email the suppliers address but I've not heard back.

[Ian Sheppard]

They said they would email the suppliers address but I've not heard back.

Address
Spring (Europe) Ltd
Units 9 & 14
April Court
Sybron Way
Crowborough
TN63DZ
East Sussex

When you send it back please include a return address

[Plankton]

Any news on the controller, hopefully got there on Monday 6th.

[Ian Sheppard]

Any news on the controller, hopefully got there on Monday 6th.

Hi Alan yes we did receive the controller Monday. I have been out of the office for a couple days so will check with the workshop in the morning.

[Ian Sheppard]

Any news on the controller, hopefully got there on Monday 6th.

Hi Alan: Our engineer has had a good look at the controller and had it running on permanent test for a period. Good news is he can find no issues at all and the controller works as expected. We will be shipping this back to you today. Its likely that the power down described was being caused by a loose wiring connection. another possibility is a loose connection to the battery terminal. "When the controller is re installed check the bullet connections are tight and those to the battery terminals.

Cheers

ian   

[Plankton]

Pumps been running fine without the controller which makes me think it's the heat from the pump or warm water that's triggering something.

[Ian Sheppard]

Pumps been running fine without the controller which makes me think it's the heat from the pump or warm water that's triggering something.

Hi Alan. There are systems with V11 out in Dubai and UAE Australia ect.  The V11 has cooling stages designed in and even after  hours of use the controller will only reach low 30C. For heat to be a factor it would have to be significant heat in the 200C plus ranges. The pump ran for several hours will tend to sit around 40C enough to be warm to the touch but not much more. The pump will run hotter with no controller perhaps 50 to 60C  so heat is very unlikely to be a factor here. 

[Plankton]

AAAAAAAAAAH!
Plugged it back in and.............Same old story. Connectors on the pump must be in good working order as the pump runs without any issues but when I plug the controller in (black to black, red to red, black to blue and brown to orange) it wasn't turning the pump then decided it was going to turn the pump before it started the same old switching off game. Taken it back off.

[Small but perfectley formed]

I had similar problem with a varistream it was the fuse I put a cheap one from pound land changed it problem solved.

[Ian Sheppard]

AAAAAAAAAAH!
Plugged it back in and.............Same old story. Connectors on the pump must be in good working order as the pump runs without any issues but when I plug the controller in (black to black, red to red, black to blue and brown to orange) it wasn't turning the pump then decided it was going to turn the pump before it started the same old switching off game. Taken it back off.

That is odd, the controller was fully tested and inspected by the engineer who has been building these units for years including running on a pressurised pumped system and the controller operated as expected with no issue. A loose connection still seems to be the most likely issue, This could be related to the fuse/holder. as with the last post 

[Plankton]

I've got new ones delivered so I'll change the fuse and holder again but I don't have the bullet connectors.

[Ian Sheppard]

I've got new ones delivered so I'll change the fuse and holder again but I don't have the bullet connectors.

I am working out of the office today so can not lay my hands on any until next week.  They will be available at Maplins, Halfords Screwfix ect. They need to be able to take a 1mm Tri rated cable. If you struggle to get some let me know

[Plankton]

Replaced the fuse holder and fuse, powered on and a minute later the pump started. Cleaned the front windows of my house and I switched it off then back on and the following happens... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otTEmzncETI

[Ian Sheppard]

Replaced the fuse holder and fuse, powered on and a minute later the pump started. Cleaned the front windows of my house and I switched it off then back on and the following happens... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otTEmzncETI

Alan that is clearly not right get it back to us and i will get this sorted.

Ian

[tlwcs]

Replaced the fuse holder and fuse, powered on and a minute later the pump started. Cleaned the front windows of my house and I switched it off then back on and the following happens... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otTEmzncETI

Alan that is clearly not right get it back to us and i will get this sorted.

Ian

Can you not send him one out to use while you looking at his again?
The lad deserves a free one/spare for his patience alone.
Tony

[Plankton]

For some reason I ran it today (catching up on yesterdays work) and it lasted 30 min before playing up again. If I didn't receive it back so quick the work would have been finished... and the kids missed out on swimming due to me pssing about.

[Ian Sheppard]

Replaced the fuse holder and fuse, powered on and a minute later the pump started. Cleaned the front windows of my house and I switched it off then back on and the following happens... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otTEmzncETI

Alan that is clearly not right get it back to us and i will get this sorted.



Can you not send him one out to use while you looking at his again?
The lad deserves a free one/spare for his patience alone.
Tony

Good question Tony. Like pretty much all electronic companies we operate a return to base warranty as this allows us to inspect amy electronics that are returned to us in a factory setting. We do this with all the electronics we manufacture be it Pure water security access, access controls and detection systems. This also gives us the best opportunity to catch any issues. With Alans controller when we tested it over a period of time it just did nor show the issue displayed in the video. The only way to find out why and what is happening is for it to come back to us. As the controller is mounted using bolts just sending a replacement is not as straight forward as it sounds.
We have inspected the unit for free and returned it for free. which we will do again   Not that it helps Alan but based on what we produce the returns are 0.4%.

Looking at the recent post there appears to be some kind of intermittent fault somewhere. I and Spring will do what we can to locate the source what ever that may be
Ian

[Ian Sheppard]

For some reason I ran it today (catching up on yesterdays work) and it lasted 30 min before playing up again. If I didn't receive it back so quick the work would have been finished... and the kids missed out on swimming due to me pssing about.

Hi Alan

Thank you for the video, and your patience as we look to resolve this. There would seem to be some kind of intermittent issue somewhere. Friday the controller would not power up at all then Saturday it worked for 30 minutes. Normally the controller normally works or it does not so to be honest i am not sure what is going on there.   

I am happy to arrange collection of the controller from you, Just let me know when it is ready. Once it is back with us we are going to replace the PCB.

[Plankton]

On it's way back Ian, 2nd class post.

[Ian Sheppard]

Hi Alan

This controller is on its way back to you and should arrive today via UPS.  A new Controller PCB has been fitted into the enclosure.

Cheers
Ian

[Plankton]

Thanks Ian, I picked it up tonight and will give it a go on Friday.

[Plankton]

Hooked it back up for yesterday and it ran continuously pumping 300l without it been switched on and off.
I wonder why Facelift or WCW has drilled two holes in the side of the controller as noted on the engineers report.

And thanks for sorting it out Ian

[David Beecroft]

Reading all this makes me want to avoid getting a complete system from anyone. You’re at their mercy when it comes to repairs and warranty. I’ve always built my systems  and yes I’ve had controllers go faulty but it’s easier and quicker just to replace a component and get on with the business. If the part is fairly new I can then send it back to whoever I bought it from.

[Plankton]

A couple of years ago I said for the next controller I'll buy a Spring controller. Unwittingly I bought one with the Facelift Compact system, now I had experience of dealing with wcw regarding another issue which fell on deaf ears and as I had already told them I had an issue with the system switching off and I didn't want to be the pita customer so I persevered with it.
I had an issue with controllers in the past and the supplier never bothered getting back to me so that in itself is off-putting.
In this case I posted it on here and Ian from Spring replied, at this point I didn't know it was a Spring controller until I removed it which had the Spring logo inside. In the end (after the initial post) it was resolved fairly quickly and it wouldn't put me off buying another but in hindsight I should have bought a spare or at least built a cheap spare.

[David Beecroft]

When you got the facelift system last year I thought it seemed quite good value for money and spring have certainly given you good customer service. I still think though that building one from scratch is the best, for me at least. Hope it goes well for you from now on.