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C & S

  • Posts: 75
Bad paying customers...fml
« on: September 14, 2017, 12:27:29 am »
So I have around a dozen bad paying customers on my round some new others newish.
Taking the pee.
I stuck a few notes on the front doors of a few today. They paid online.
I have 2 scumbags who owe me, they are off my round but have not paid yet.
Ive spoke to both in person,
I have one new customer not paid for first clean, 5 weeks overdue. Had a few reminder texts, a letter (nice reminder) and a note on door.
These 5percent are doing my head in tbh
I have a feeling a few are going to be getting a sun am visit. Then dumped after I have been paid.
Rant over.

dave f

Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2017, 06:35:27 am »
 dump just get on with it I have the same problem  I have stopped putting up with shyte 3 trikes and your out

Stoots

  • Posts: 5986
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2017, 07:34:24 am »
I've got about a dozen owing as well, just sent court letter out a couple of weeks ago. 2 coughed up. The rest nothing. Was going to file claims but I broke my phone recently and I've lost all the texts as proof so I might be stuffed. Sick of writing off debts, that's about 500 quid this year. Almost all of it from 1st cleans.

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23264
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2017, 08:02:34 am »
Sometimes I don't like the "feel" of a first clean and so I insist on cash up front. (and charge more)

If it is a known "one off" from the start I will nearly always ask for cash up front or at least ask if they have cash to pay me as soon as I have finished. One "walk-up" even went to the cashpoint there and then and came back while I was cleaning his (regular) neighbour, paid me before I started and drove off - so he had to trust me.
It's a game of three halves!

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2017, 08:24:42 am »
Ive very recently set up GoCardless....i dont use any software packages like george etc as im old school with pen n notepad.
Ive started getting my customers to sign upto it but more importantly im not taking on any new customers unless they sign up first. For instance ive got a new cust to sign up and hes having a roof clean for 90 and windows at £18......i could have done it when i quoted but ive told him to sign up to direct debit b4 i begin and weve arranged a date to do the work....but thats if hes signed up!!  Regardless how much i might earn on it, no more new work unless they sign up
facebook.com/1NKServices
1NKServices.co.uk

dazmond

  • Posts: 23504
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2017, 08:45:06 am »
I've got about a dozen owing as well, just sent court letter out a couple of weeks ago. 2 coughed up. The rest nothing. Was going to file claims but I broke my phone recently and I've lost all the texts as proof so I might be stuffed. Sick of writing off debts, that's about 500 quid this year. Almost all of it from 1st cleans.

thats a lot to write off mate.mines usually around £50-£100 a year .its currently at £65  due to customers dying/moving.non through blatant non paying.ive never not been paid for a first clean in 24 years of window cleaning.

where are you cleaning adam?sounds grim.id be annoyed and id be taking things of value out of their garages/sheds to pay for the window cleaning! ;D
price higher/work harder!

Susan Dean (1stclean)

  • Posts: 2064
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2017, 09:15:15 am »
we go back with a dirty bucket of water , nice mix of dirt and fairy and reaply to the windows , done 8 this year so far , doesn't get you your money back but you get one hell of a kick out of doing it

Johnny B

  • Posts: 2385
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2017, 10:19:40 am »
I don't handle stress very well so in cases of non payers I put them on the back burner until the ex customer wants their windows cleaned again (which most do eventually ) when I agree to do them when the debt owed plus money up front for current clean is in my hand.

No arguments, no stress, everyone happy!

John.
Being diplomatic is being able to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.

C & S

  • Posts: 75
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2017, 04:58:38 pm »
@adam thompson.

Thats a fair wack to be letting off mate 500 a year... thats a nice long weekend in spain with the missus think of it like that.

On a horrendous weather day. Where you cannot work. Pick a few go round.

And work through them.

It doesnt matter if its 3 month late mate go get it.

They wont like you knocking at their front door who cares they have robbed you.

They will think twice about doing it again to some other windy too.




duncan h

  • Posts: 1875
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2017, 06:06:41 pm »
I've got about a dozen owing as well, just sent court letter out a couple of weeks ago. 2 coughed up. The rest nothing. Was going to file claims but I broke my phone recently and I've lost all the texts as proof so I might be stuffed. Sick of writing off debts, that's about 500 quid this year. Almost all of it from 1st cleans.
I get about £200 with new customers. Get sick of chasing them up. Was going to take one to court but couldn't be bothered. They will all get a Christmas present.

Your phone may back its self up. My Galaxy did automatically

Stoots

  • Posts: 5986
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2017, 09:14:39 pm »
Got one just now saying his windows were not cleaned.

double checked his address on google maps and im convinced they were.

note not posted he said and windows not done.

First clean on a new custy, going to call in morning when passing and double check i got the right house, really hope hes not trying it on and ive made a mistake..

Got another 5 first cleans done 2 weeks ago not paid and unresponsive to messages. thats on top of the outstanding ive already got.

Trouble is if customer denies it was done im sure i wouldnt have a leg to stand on it no claims court?


Stoots

  • Posts: 5986
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2017, 09:18:22 pm »
I've got about a dozen owing as well, just sent court letter out a couple of weeks ago. 2 coughed up. The rest nothing. Was going to file claims but I broke my phone recently and I've lost all the texts as proof so I might be stuffed. Sick of writing off debts, that's about 500 quid this year. Almost all of it from 1st cleans.

thats a lot to write off mate.mines usually around £50-£100 a year .its currently at £65  due to customers dying/moving.non through blatant non paying.ive never not been paid for a first clean in 24 years of window cleaning.

where are you cleaning adam?sounds grim.id be annoyed and id be taking things of value out of their garages/sheds to pay for the window cleaning! ;D

Its all canvassed work, thats obviously the problem.

From now on no more canvassed customers if i can avoid it and only Go Cardless, the amount im writing off is beyond ridiculous. 

Shrek

  • Posts: 3931
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2017, 09:31:40 pm »
Just insist on cash on the day for 1st time from now on

paul alan

  • Posts: 1683
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2017, 09:44:51 pm »
I dunno l have canvassed a lot of work and never experienced this?

Mostly they are home on the first one and always get paid on the day, maybe you should operate a cash up front policy? Or atleast a deposit.

Have you thought about starting a round in a better area? Maybe a drive out for 30min/an hour might net better results with regards prices/customers.

Adam...honestly...are you not placing enough value on your services?

 From what lm reading on here your not having much luck with prices and customers which could be just the area your in but then theres good and bad in every area.

I mean why do some seem to find the good and others seem to find the bad? Its not just coincidence surely.

I cant complain maybe lm just living in a "lucky" area but if l couldnt find what l wanted here l would surely look somewhere else for it

Stoots

  • Posts: 5986
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2017, 09:56:36 pm »
I dont canvass my own work i use companys.

which takes away some of the control like demanding cash upfront, its a case of clean it and hope for the best.

But yes it cant go on like this Paul, going to have to find another way to grow the round.

Theres really not much better areas round here, i would have to travel an hour i reckon to get out of Yorkshire, its all the same round here, working class ex mining towns

C & S

  • Posts: 75
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2017, 10:22:25 pm »
Adam thompson.

Just a thought here.. your canvasser is defiently not taking you for a mug is he? Giving you random numbers houses and names etc?.

Do you ring the non payers?

Crystal-clear

  • Posts: 3029
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2017, 10:42:41 pm »
£500 a year sounds about right if you are doing a mass marketing campaign
you'd be surprised how many canvassed customers don't end up paying (if you are out round building actively cleaning anyone who wants them cleaned)

for example last 12 months worth of rite offs stands at only £78.00  mostly moving customers or the odd one just not responding but i have not sought new business for over 3 years maybe 4 years to be honest that's why its such a little rite off

but over the last 8 years my total rite off is £2850.00 LOL thats alot of money (third to my dream van ford custom black i think!:)
i think at least £2,300 of that is from the first 4 years when i was seeking new business

i would never ever do it that way again i would only hit areas that are literally close to me and ask them whens good for you?
no more credit on first cleans unless its a front id never in my life do a full house on a first clean unless its paid or they are in to pay and sticking to really local areas helps with sorting out a time

With some the problems arise when customers are out  a small part of them may think did he really do them properly or they simply dont like it that they had to pay for something they didn't see this can be on a first clean or the second clean mostly early on
i remember one called me to say she ain't paying as i left a bill demanding payment lol? you mean thx for using us now you do need to pay what you asked for she said i didnt see you do it not happy blah blah i will only pay you when i see you working as i did the first time

Stoots

  • Posts: 5986
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2017, 10:48:41 pm »
Adam thompson.

Just a thought here.. your canvasser is defiently not taking you for a mug is he? Giving you random numbers houses and names etc?.

Do you ring the non payers?

Yes I've spoke to most of them and they said to go ahead. Just don't answer phone or hear owt back when chasing payment.

Crystal-clear

  • Posts: 3029
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2017, 10:50:32 pm »
Adam thompson.

Just a thought here.. your canvasser is defiently not taking you for a mug is he? Giving you random numbers houses and names etc?.

Do you ring the non payers?

youd prob find less problems if you canvassed yourself but you may pick up alot less work in theory it kinda balances out maybe

Stoots

  • Posts: 5986
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2017, 10:56:55 pm »
£500 a year sounds about right if you are doing a mass marketing campaign
you'd be surprised how many canvassed customers don't end up paying (if you are out round building actively cleaning anyone who wants them cleaned)

for example last 12 months worth of rite offs stands at only £78.00  mostly moving customers or the odd one just not responding but i have not sought new business for over 3 years maybe 4 years to be honest that's why its such a little rite off

but over the last 8 years my total rite off is £2850.00 LOL thats alot of money (third to my dream van ford custom black i think!:)
i think at least £2,300 of that is from the first 4 years when i was seeking new business

i would never ever do it that way again i would only hit areas that are literally close to me and ask them whens good for you?
no more credit on first cleans unless its a front id never in my life do a full house on a first clean unless its paid or they are in to pay and sticking to really local areas helps with sorting out a time

With some the problems arise when customers are out  a small part of them may think did he really do them properly or they simply dont like it that they had to pay for something they didn't see this can be on a first clean or the second clean mostly early on
i remember one called me to say she ain't paying as i left a bill demanding payment lol? you mean thx for using us now you do need to pay what you asked for she said i didnt see you do it not happy blah blah i will only pay you when i see you working as i did the first time

Thanks, that's certainly rings true with me

Spend 6k this year on marketing so yes quite a lot of new work cleaned. And a hell of a lot of it dumped/cancelled/written off.

90% of the non payers have come from the first or second cleans. Very rarely do I get a non layer from an established customer so it is going how you say.

Par for the course then...
Thankfully I'm not far off full now for myself so it should get easier from here on in.


Stoots

  • Posts: 5986
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2017, 11:02:30 pm »
Adam thompson.

Just a thought here.. your canvasser is defiently not taking you for a mug is he? Giving you random numbers houses and names etc?.

Do you ring the non payers?

youd prob find less problems if you canvassed yourself but you may pick up alot less work in theory it kinda balances out maybe

Yes I've canvassed myself a bit and had less problems. that said I've had Messer's doing it that way too.

I just found it too hard going, I was out all day and only picking up 2-3. Couldn't seem to find an easy area, it was like everyone had a windy. Plus I really don't enjoy doing it.
 

Crystal-clear

  • Posts: 3029
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2017, 08:43:36 am »
Adam thompson.

Just a thought here.. your canvasser is defiently not taking you for a mug is he? Giving you random numbers houses and names etc?.

Do you ring the non payers?

youd prob find less problems if you canvassed yourself but you may pick up alot less work in theory it kinda balances out maybe

Yes I've canvassed myself a bit and had less problems. that said I've had Messer's doing it that way too.

I just found it too hard going, I was out all day and only picking up 2-3. Couldn't seem to find an easy area, it was like everyone had a windy. Plus I really don't enjoy doing it.

Basically keep doing what you're doing one thing which will largely reduce the non payers is arranging a time and date for the first clean (don't slip them) also do that for the second clean I would also insist that first cleans are (1 cash on the day or 2) per paid via bacs you should be firm on that they will respect you more trust me because knocking cleaning and even letting them pay whenever they like for a dirty first clean psychologically some people get a power trip

it's extreanly rare that a customer refuses to pay for a first or second clean if they are in so that will considerably reduce the rip offs
However I know the down side of it is you may be in this area on Monday doing 3/4 houses one of the 4 houses wants Tuesday but Tuesday you're 10 miles away it's annoying and potentially it may even work out better that you accept getting ripped off on that one house financially if you didn't drive back you could have made more

you have to weigh it up time is money personally for the sake of your sanity I would just allow the customer to some what dictate the first 2 dates offer them before or after midday you can't do much with the 10:15 gang or 2:45 on the dot so try go half way once those difficult custys see you turn up 2 times do it and pay you then they should be okay to pay you on a slip or cancel and pay you on the second time
This will reduce the non payers now some canvassers get upset when they hear you want to meet them all on the first clean just explain its so you can be paid , they'll be worried in case you batter them into regular one of the reasons why you pick up 2-3 and they 10 you're being careful canvassers need to put bread on their table so everything gets booked and you go off numbers it works just expect problems
Well arranging dates for first cleans helps a lot ! It might end up costing you the same as being ripped off in extra fuel costs but moral stays higher and your stress lvls are lower which is most important  good canvassers won't have a problem with them being in .

Ps if you go for fronts those are the only jobs if you're canvassing that you should just clean and open yourself up to a rip off its just not worth arranging times and dates for those just do them they're fast and it defo works out better but full houses strictly no

dazmond

  • Posts: 23504
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2017, 08:54:18 am »
Adam thompson.

Just a thought here.. your canvasser is defiently not taking you for a mug is he? Giving you random numbers houses and names etc?.

Do you ring the non payers?

youd prob find less problems if you canvassed yourself but you may pick up alot less work in theory it kinda balances out maybe

Yes I've canvassed myself a bit and had less problems. that said I've had Messer's doing it that way too.

I just found it too hard going, I was out all day and only picking up 2-3. Couldn't seem to find an easy area, it was like everyone had a windy. Plus I really don't enjoy doing it.

Basically keep doing what you're doing one thing which will largely reduce the non payers is arranging a time and date for the first clean (don't slip them) also do that for the second clean I would also insist that first cleans are (1 cash on the day or 2) per paid via bacs you should be firm on that they will respect you more trust me because knocking cleaning and even letting them pay whenever they like for a dirty first clean psychologically some people get a power trip

it's extreanly rare that a customer refuses to pay for a first or second clean if they are in so that will considerably reduce the rip offs
However I know the down side of it is you may be in this area on Monday doing 3/4 houses one of the 4 houses wants Tuesday but Tuesday you're 10 miles away it's annoying and potentially it may even work out better that you accept getting ripped off on that one house financially if you didn't drive back you could have made more

you have to weigh it up time is money personally for the sake of your sanity I would just allow the customer to some what dictate the first 2 dates offer them before or after midday you can't do much with the 10:15 gang or 2:45 on the dot so try go half way once those difficult custys see you turn up 2 times do it and pay you then they should be okay to pay you on a slip or cancel and pay you on the second time
This will reduce the non payers now some canvassers get upset when they hear you want to meet them all on the first clean just explain its so you can be paid , they'll be worried in case you batter them into regular one of the reasons why you pick up 2-3 and they 10 you're being careful canvassers need to put bread on their table so everything gets booked and you go off numbers it works just expect problems
Well arranging dates for first cleans helps a lot ! It might end up costing you the same as being ripped off in extra fuel costs but moral stays higher and your stress lvls are lower which is most important  good canvassers won't have a problem with them being in .

Ps if you go for fronts those are the only jobs if you're canvassing that you should just clean and open yourself up to a rip off its just not worth arranging times and dates for those just do them they're fast and it defo works out better but full houses strictly no

jesus!!! ::)roll

do you all really have these problems even on a first clean? :(
price higher/work harder!

Crystal-clear

  • Posts: 3029
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2017, 10:29:46 am »
daz I don't think you have ever needed to canvass 100 customers in a short space of a month going out every day picking up anything then if you were to clean 100 first cleans and charge good prices you also would have those problems

I never had a single problem on a first clean over last 3-4 years why? Cos all the first cleans I did were passive they came to me when they come to you it's so different
And how many did I do maybe 3 a month ? Easy to arrange In between
Reguslrs easy to give them dates
But it's almost impossible to be everywhere at a certain time for hundreds of first cleans they all want to see it and that's the problem
When you canvass it you can have the odd problem if I had a week off now id just enjoy it but back then I used the time to canvass and clean a lot of first cleans that promised me the world but it all comes out in the wash and you find out what's what lol.
In an ideal world daz you I and most others can reject first cleans if you are happy where you are but people who are expanding and want to be bigger and are canvassing a lot it's different
You're lucky that I don't think you have ever had to spend months or years knocking on doors and cleaning everything that gave you a sniff of wanting your services

If you think cleaning a ton of first cleans 200-300 that you canvass will all pay you promptly and all stick then pls go for it actually don't as you may retire due to going mad ;)
When they see you cleaning or call you it's so so different mate specially when you have a full round that you're happy with

dazmond

  • Posts: 23504
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2017, 05:58:17 pm »
how do you think ive ended up with the round ive got?it surely wasnt handed to me on a plate!of course ive canvassed for months and months at a time.i canvassed 2 or 3 times a week for 6 months when i started.never not been paid for a first clean.
price higher/work harder!

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2017, 06:25:11 pm »
how do you think ive ended up with the round ive got?it surely wasnt handed to me on a plate!of course ive canvassed for months and months at a time.i canvassed 2 or 3 times a week for 6 months when i started.never not been paid for a first clean.

Alot of us on here are very fortunate to be in a comfortable place work wise, but dont be fooled!!  Like Daz weve all had to work hard over many years to refine and build up our empires and so yes, im sorry to disappoint but we do know what were talking about because we have been therr and done it and learnt from it.
But yes its nice not to say yes to everything that comes along or perhaps to be gullable to take everything that comes along because se have learnt!!
I got an enquiry about a first clean, i have the job plus a conny roof clean and is set for regular 4wkly cleans.....but guess what,,,they have to and are willing to wait 4 weeks untill im back in the area to accomodate him and he has to sign upto gocardless b4 i turn up as well. So no worries about being paid either
facebook.com/1NKServices
1NKServices.co.uk

Crystal-clear

  • Posts: 3029
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2017, 06:59:15 pm »
how do you think ive ended up with the round ive got?it surely wasnt handed to me on a plate!of course ive canvassed for months and months at a time.i canvassed 2 or 3 times a week for 6 months when i started.never not been paid for a first clean.
If you were charging good prices when canvassing that's impressive then but as you can see fellow windy States over £500 a year of non payers maybe all those years ago it was different also maybe you used ladders back ( strait away eliminates what's this factor) then did it when they were in I know you've been doing this longer then I have and I've been at it a while back then it was different
I don't think you've canvassed for a very long time tho mate , try it today and charge your current prices tell them regular only and must be direct debit and if you're firm you'll get very few of course you won't have problems with 2  cherry picked jobs but  cleaning maybe over 100 first cleans a month maybe more there will be problems because you can't canvass all day for one job you'll have problems as you're canvassing and cleaning as much as you can to speed it up
All this said its good to know you've had no problems from canvassed work  ;)

Stoots

  • Posts: 5986
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2017, 08:06:14 pm »
Theres a big difference between canvassing your own work at a steady rate, few a week and having minimal problems to the way ive been doing it.

I literally get given a sheet of 50 first cleans all at once, all of it needs to be done asap to minimise cancels, they are mostly minging first cleans, it is a full week of hard graft, thats if the weather holds out. You have to use a sat nav to get to them as you are not 100% sure where you are going, youre dealing with locked gates, cancels, peoples expectations etc. Then there the payments, some people will still not pay online. well i dont collect so thats those that have to go.

And if you are pricing well, which i am (for the area) you get cancels on price after they think about it.

Its a real poop storm to deal with, its really stressfull.

Glad you have experienced the same things i have Crystal-clear, simetimes when reading online you the impression some windys do nothing to advertise and work simply comes to them, thats great but not all areas are like this. Some areas are much harder and need a consistent effort everyday, which of course includes a high turnover of customers.

Johnny B

  • Posts: 2385
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2017, 08:43:49 pm »
I have always done all my own canvassing. I found it was far easier to build a reasonable run with minimal stress.

Advantages:
Both myself and customer meet face to face.

Price, cleaning time/date agreed on the spot.

I am in control of where I am looking to build so can map out my business territory.

No costs involved except time (which I see as an investment),

Canvassing is the quickest way to find new customers when starting out.

Disadvantages:

I got the occasional messer but then who hasn't?

John
Being diplomatic is being able to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.

Lee Pryor

  • Posts: 2285
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2017, 08:55:05 pm »
Your all to soft.

We have no problems with payments.

Here's why.

New customers have to use go cardless. No exceptions!

Previous customers that have not paid for the last clean get dropped as we come round again and can only re join if they agree to go Cardless, no exceptions!

Follow that the problems stop. I promise.
The best way to predict the future is to create it.

Stoots

  • Posts: 5986
Re: Bad paying customers...fml
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2017, 09:20:34 pm »
Your all to soft.

We have no problems with payments.

Here's why.

New customers have to use go cardless. No exceptions!

Previous customers that have not paid for the last clean get dropped as we come round again and can only re join if they agree to go Cardless, no exceptions!

Follow that the problems stop. I promise.


Easier done with leaflets than canvassing.

Ill have to give leaflets another shot.

slap bash

  • Posts: 1365
Re: Bad paying customers...fml New
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2017, 08:42:08 am »
So I have around a dozen bad paying customers on my round some new others newish.
Taking the pee
I have a feeling a few are going to be getting a sun am visit. Then dumped after I have been paid.
Rant over.
If you cannot forgive or forget its a difficult one. IF YOU ALLOW IT YOU BUG you, it's going to eat you up. I know it`s frustrating that people can think so low of you that you don't need paying. But the truth of the matter is they are just sloppy people. If this does not help then, ignore morally correct police and go-ahead are put glue in the lock or poison the plants etc. I know most decry this as a solution, but it does help mentally and to hell with the ones who take the moral high ground and have overcome this mental problem.I have overcome this frustration but when |I started, I would do all these things. "God it did feel good."