[Jonny 87]

 Has anyone got a new van that's euro 6 compliant and has one of these daft smart alternators? If so how did you get round the split relay charger?

I've just got a 2017 Renault trafic and this has a smart alternator.

Electrics aren't my best subject, so I'm
Trying to read up and get an understanding  of how it all works.

From what I gather smart alternators don't kick out the same power that a standard alternator does (this saves on fuel and emissions)  so this means a standard smart charge relay doesn't kick in.

For the moment I've been advised to wire things up to "direct charge" so the leisure battery is connected directly to my vans battery. But of course the problem with this is that I could run down both battery's and then my van won't start.

I'm Also bench charging my battery every night, but I'm running 2 powerup reels, and two pumps so I worry power may become an issue. The company who fitted my system are working on a solution, which seems to only be a "battery to battery" charger, which are quite costly. I'm
Happy to Do it if it works though.

Might try going down the solar route if p@f's thread is anything to go by, it looks promising.

[Stoots]

yes wanted  a simple relay then found out it would be a farce and £££

luckily i dont really need one as i can plug in on a night.

why do they make everything so complicated

[Jonny 87]

yes wanted  a simple relay then found out it would be a farce and £££

luckily i dont really need one as i can plug in on a night.

why do they make everything so complicated

I know. 

Problem For me is that I'm Going to be a heavy power user, with 2 pumps and 2 powered reels.

I may have to bite the bullet and pay the £300 for the battery to battery charger and then
Whatever the fitting of it will be. Not great when you've just already invested loads on new van and equipment.

[P @ F]

Also , solar might not be the answer for you , 2 pumps and 2 power reels , i assume full working days, you would need at least 400watt of panels on the roof , thats £400 already , then its all the other bits , only to find that you are not getting enough power in through the winter , this is why im doing the donkey work , if it does not work for me , a forced part timer,  then it will be a real long shot for you .
Save your money for now  , B2B may be the best bet or just bench charge until the solution is found regarding smartarse alternators !

Rich   

[Jonny 87]

Also , solar might not be the answer for you , 2 pumps and 2 power reels , i assume full working days, you would need at least 400watt of panels on the roof , thats £400 already , then its all the other bits , only to find that you are not getting enough power in through the winter , this is why im doing the donkey work , if it does not work for me , a forced part timer,  then it will be a real long shot for you .
Save your money for now  , B2B may be the best bet or just bench charge until the solution is found regarding smartarse alternators !

Rich

Thanks mate, I think your probably right.

I'm definitely going to bench charge every night to keep myself going.

[AuRavelling79]

If you are going to bench charge make it easy. Do it in the van if you have off street parking.

Keep the charger in the van next to the battery, (have the battery located near a door) use clip on terminals you can unclip and have a reel extension lead to an outdoor socket.

Oh. And stick a trip hazard cone by your drivers door to remind you not to drive of with it all plugged in!

[P @ F]

To be honest if bench charging is not an issue for you then do it , at least you know you have full bats every day , i dont really need to do the solar as i normally move the bats in while the tank fills , i just like to experiment a bit !
It has only cost me £150 to get the answer i seek , could be a NO for me yet , i can only go to another 40watt panel before i run out of roof space and load capacity in my noddy van   

[Jonny 87]

If you are going to bench charge make it easy. Do it in the van if you have off street parking.

Keep the charger in the van next to the battery, (have the battery located near a door) use clip on terminals you can unclip and have a reel extension lead to an outdoor socket.

Oh. And stick a trip hazard cone by your drivers door to remind you not to drive of with it all plugged in!

Great post.

That's what I currently do. I've got a ctek quick charging point connected and just reel out the power cable to my van.

I've never driven off as yet with the charger attached, but I think the cone is a great fail safe.

[Jonny 87]

To be honest if bench charging is not an issue for you then do it , at least you know you have full bats every day , i dont really need to do the solar as i normally move the bats in while the tank fills , i just like to experiment a bit !
It has only cost me £150 to get the answer i seek , could be a NO for me yet , i can only go to another 40watt panel before i run out of roof space and load capacity in my noddy van 

Hmmmmm, can I pick your brains?

 Do you think that would get me
Through, if I go out with a fully charged battery, would that last me a full day with two of us working? and just charge every night.

It's a 115 amp battery, standard sureflo pumps, and powerup hd reels.

Tomorrow is the first day with 2 of us working so I guess there's only one way to find out. 

Thanks for your help P@F.

[P @ F]

To be honest if bench charging is not an issue for you then do it , at least you know you have full bats every day , i dont really need to do the solar as i normally move the bats in while the tank fills , i just like to experiment a bit !
It has only cost me £150 to get the answer i seek , could be a NO for me yet , i can only go to another 40watt panel before i run out of roof space and load capacity in my noddy van 

Hmmmmm, can I pick your brains?

 Do you think that would get me
Through, if I go out with a fully charged battery, would that last me a full day with two of us working? and just charge every night.

It's a 115 amp battery, standard sureflo pumps, and powerup hd reels.

Tomorrow is the first day with 2 of us working so I guess there's only one way to find out. 

Thanks for your help P@F.

Right you have 115 amps if fully charged , to keep the battery in good nick you should use no more than 50% , so you have max of 57.5 Amps to play with , call it 50 Amps to be safe , 2 shurflo pumps will use 6 Amp each on full pelt per hour solid running .
This means on paper that 50 Amp divided by 12 Amp will give you 4 hours of continuous full flow running on each pump , that to me would mean about an 8 hour day , if you run around on a compact round banging the houses out or you do big jobs without cutting the flow out much then you will be sailing close to a flat or very depleted battery , lets not forget the power ups , they have not been factored in at all , if you reel in a lot on compact thats a big drain , if its big jobs with a few reel ins then not so much a problem , but i understand that they are watt hungry motors .
It may be worth getting another 115 amp and charger , that way you would be safe as houses .

Rich 

[Jonny 87]

To be honest if bench charging is not an issue for you then do it , at least you know you have full bats every day , i dont really need to do the solar as i normally move the bats in while the tank fills , i just like to experiment a bit !
It has only cost me £150 to get the answer i seek , could be a NO for me yet , i can only go to another 40watt panel before i run out of roof space and load capacity in my noddy van 

Hmmmmm, can I pick your brains?

 Do you think that would get me
Through, if I go out with a fully charged battery, would that last me a full day with two of us working? and just charge every night.

It's a 115 amp battery, standard sureflo pumps, and powerup hd reels.

Tomorrow is the first day with 2 of us working so I guess there's only one way to find out. 

Thanks for your help P@F.

Right you have 115 amps if fully charged , to keep the battery in good nick you should use no more than 50% , so you have max of 57.5 Amps to play with , call it 50 Amps to be safe , 2 shurflo pumps will use 6 Amp each on full pelt per hour solid running .
This means on paper that 50 Amp divided by 12 Amp will give you 4 hours of continuous full flow running on each pump , that to me would mean about an 8 hour day , if you run around on a compact round banging the houses out or you do big jobs without cutting the flow out much then you will be sailing close to a flat or very depleted battery , lets not forget the power ups , they have not been factored in at all , if you reel in a lot on compact thats a big drain , if its big jobs with a few reel ins then not so much a problem , but i understand that they are watt hungry motors .
It may be worth getting another 115 amp and charger , that way you would be safe as houses .

Rich

Thanks rich. I think a secondary battery may be the way for me to go. Im going to be pushing it otherwise.

[Clever Forum Name]

Hi Jonny, we've got transit customs and a connect and all have that.

It's pricey but we just let grippa tank install their smart charge relay system. Been faultless on every vehicle.

https://www.grippatank.co.uk/full-kit-12v-30amp-smart-battery-to-battery-charger

[Spruce]

Has anyone got a new van that's euro 6 compliant and has one of these daft smart alternators? If so how did you get round the split relay charger?

I've just got a 2017 Renault trafic and this has a smart alternator.

Electrics aren't my best subject, so I'm
Trying to read up and get an understanding  of how it all works.

From what I gather smart alternators don't kick out the same power that a standard alternator does (this saves on fuel and emissions)  so this means a standard smart charge relay doesn't kick in.

For the moment I've been advised to wire things up to "direct charge" so the leisure battery is connected directly to my vans battery. But of course the problem with this is that I could run down both battery's and then my van won't start.

I'm Also bench charging my battery every night, but I'm running 2 powerup reels, and two pumps so I worry power may become an issue. The company who fitted my system are working on a solution, which seems to only be a "battery to battery" charger, which are quite costly. I'm
Happy to Do it if it works though.

Might try going down the solar route if p@f's thread is anything to go by, it looks promising.

These new vans have bigger alternators which will dump vast amounts of charge into the starter battery during regenerative charging at a higher voltage.  Our leisure batteries won't tolerate that higher voltage.  The lead acid battery used on vans for years won't tolerate that voltage or current surge either, so manufacturers are using calcium batteries which, allegedly, will.

This is a good info video. Charles Sterling isn't the most enthusiastic person I've listened to but the info is 'on the button.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WADiMSJ7Yc

I wrote this for another forum recently.

Battery to Battery chargers.

Vehicles manufacturers are being forced by emission regulations to become more environmentally friendly. This has meant that there is a real possibility that vans registered after 2015 are likely to have smart alternators, stop start and regenerative charging.

A conventional Voltage Sensing Relay will not work on these vans, especially if they have regenerative charging. Regenerative charging is simply a system that recharges the battery when a vehicle is decelerating. The van’s ECU will instruct the alternator to charge the van’s starter battery until it is 80% full. It then leaves the remaining 20% to be charged when the vehicle is decelerating on a downhill, braking or slowing down for traffic lights etc. The alternator then puts a high voltage current into the battery. To accommodate this, the battery is now a calcium battery as a lead acid battery won’t tolerate the high voltages. Alternators are bigger and battery capacity has also increased; in some cases both by as much as 100% or more.

Sterling Power Products have been in the forefront of auxiliary battery charging for many years. Their pedigree is from the ambulance service and the Marine industry. According to Sterling their Battery to Battery charger does NOT take current from the starter battery for charging the leisure battery. Rather is uses alternator power to charge the leisure battery. (A ‘smart’ alternator still puts out a nominal voltage of 12.4v so it’s ready to dump a large charge into the starter batter at a moment’s notice. But 12.4v isn’t sufficient to charge the battery. So the Sterling Battery to Battery charger uses that 12.4 volts from the alternator and boosts it up to 14.4 volts which then charges the leisure battery.) There is a wiring schematic included in the pack to accommodate different charging modes. When the regenerative program activates, the battery to battery charger also regulates the voltage of the alternators output so it doesn’t damage the leisure battery. (Under regenerative charging the voltage can reach 15.5v on Ford vehicles and as high as 17.0v + on Renaults according to Sterling. Charging a lead acid battery at these voltages will cause gassing and premature lead acid leisure battery failure.)

A battery to battery charger is much more expensive than the old VSR but as demand increases then they should become cheaper to buy as ‘mass’ production reduces manufacturing costs as does manufacturer competition.

Currently the Sterling BB1230 seems a pretty good buy.

https://sterling-power.com/collections/battery-to-battery-chargers/products/2015-battery-to-battery-chargers-non-waterproof-drip-proof-ip21

At the time of writing (May 2017) they are available via an Ebay supplier for £200.00 with free postage.

These B2B chargers can also be used as replacement for the VSR on older systems and, according to Sterling, will do a better job at charging the leisure battery.  Conventional alternators are brilliant at supplying all the power a vehicle’s owner needs, eg., lights, windscreen wipers, radio etc. But they aren’t good battery chargers.

[Jonny 87]

Hi Jonny, we've got transit customs and a connect and all have that.

It's pricey but we just let grippa tank install their smart charge relay system. Been faultless on every vehicle.

https://www.grippatank.co.uk/full-kit-12v-30amp-smart-battery-to-battery-charger

Didn't even realise grippa did them!

Thanks mate. It's an option, an expensive option, but still is well worth it if it gives you hassle free charging.

[Jonny 87]

Has anyone got a new van that's euro 6 compliant and has one of these daft smart alternators? If so how did you get round the split relay charger?

I've just got a 2017 Renault trafic and this has a smart alternator.

Electrics aren't my best subject, so I'm
Trying to read up and get an understanding  of how it all works.

From what I gather smart alternators don't kick out the same power that a standard alternator does (this saves on fuel and emissions)  so this means a standard smart charge relay doesn't kick in.

For the moment I've been advised to wire things up to "direct charge" so the leisure battery is connected directly to my vans battery. But of course the problem with this is that I could run down both battery's and then my van won't start.

I'm Also bench charging my battery every night, but I'm running 2 powerup reels, and two pumps so I worry power may become an issue. The company who fitted my system are working on a solution, which seems to only be a "battery to battery" charger, which are quite costly. I'm
Happy to Do it if it works though.

Might try going down the solar route if p@f's thread is anything to go by, it looks promising.

These new vans have bigger alternators which will dump vast amounts of charge into the starter battery during regenerative charging at a higher voltage.  Our leisure batteries won't tolerate that higher voltage.  The lead acid battery used on vans for years won't tolerate that voltage or current surge either, so manufacturers are using calcium batteries which, allegedly, will.

This is a good info video. Charles Sterling isn't the most enthusiastic person I've listened to but the info is 'on the button.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WADiMSJ7Yc

I wrote this for another forum recently.

Battery to Battery chargers.

Vehicles manufacturers are being forced by emission regulations to become more environmentally friendly. This has meant that there is a real possibility that vans registered after 2015 are likely to have smart alternators, stop start and regenerative charging.

A conventional Voltage Sensing Relay will not work on these vans, especially if they have regenerative charging. Regenerative charging is simply a system that recharges the battery when a vehicle is decelerating. The van’s ECU will instruct the alternator to charge the van’s starter battery until it is 80% full. It then leaves the remaining 20% to be charged when the vehicle is decelerating on a downhill, braking or slowing down for traffic lights etc. The alternator then puts a high voltage current into the battery. To accommodate this, the battery is now a calcium battery as a lead acid battery won’t tolerate the high voltages. Alternators are bigger and battery capacity has also increased; in some cases both by as much as 100% or more.

Sterling Power Products have been in the forefront of auxiliary battery charging for many years. Their pedigree is from the ambulance service and the Marine industry. According to Sterling their Battery to Battery charger does NOT take current from the starter battery for charging the leisure battery. Rather is uses alternator power to charge the leisure battery. (A ‘smart’ alternator still puts out a nominal voltage of 12.4v so it’s ready to dump a large charge into the starter batter at a moment’s notice. But 12.4v isn’t sufficient to charge the battery. So the Sterling Battery to Battery charger uses that 12.4 volts from the alternator and boosts it up to 14.4 volts which then charges the leisure battery.) There is a wiring schematic included in the pack to accommodate different charging modes. When the regenerative program activates, the battery to battery charger also regulates the voltage of the alternators output so it doesn’t damage the leisure battery. (Under regenerative charging the voltage can reach 15.5v on Ford vehicles and as high as 17.0v + on Renaults according to Sterling. Charging a lead acid battery at these voltages will cause gassing and premature lead acid leisure battery failure.)

A battery to battery charger is much more expensive than the old VSR but as demand increases then they should become cheaper to buy as ‘mass’ production reduces manufacturing costs as does manufacturer competition.

Currently the Sterling BB1230 seems a pretty good buy.

https://sterling-power.com/collections/battery-to-battery-chargers/products/2015-battery-to-battery-chargers-non-waterproof-drip-proof-ip21

At the time of writing (May 2017) they are available via an Ebay supplier for £200.00 with free postage.

These B2B chargers can also be used as replacement for the VSR on older systems and, according to Sterling, will do a better job at charging the leisure battery.  Conventional alternators are brilliant at supplying all the power a vehicle’s owner needs, eg., lights, windscreen wipers, radio etc. But they aren’t good battery chargers.

Great info spruce, and a good informative video too. I'm slowly starting to get my head around it.

Today was an interesting day. We both did a full day's work, going through 700 litres of water and the leisure battery was still reading 12.5 volts.

That is currently with the set up of "direct charge" which I've been told to do till we sort out what the best way going forward is.

The only problem is that I could potentially drain both my leisure battery and van battery down and be stuck, but I'm also bench charging my battery every night so hopefully this gets us through.

[Tony dunmall]

I use the the grippa charging system also

Faultless over the last year we run two pumps two power up HD reels

I don't do a lot of driving but always been good and reliable

[Don Kee]

Has anyone got a new van that's euro 6 compliant and has one of these daft smart alternators? If so how did you get round the split relay charger?

I've just got a 2017 Renault trafic and this has a smart alternator.

Electrics aren't my best subject, so I'm
Trying to read up and get an understanding  of how it all works.

From what I gather smart alternators don't kick out the same power that a standard alternator does (this saves on fuel and emissions)  so this means a standard smart charge relay doesn't kick in.

For the moment I've been advised to wire things up to "direct charge" so the leisure battery is connected directly to my vans battery. But of course the problem with this is that I could run down both battery's and then my van won't start.

I'm Also bench charging my battery every night, but I'm running 2 powerup reels, and two pumps so I worry power may become an issue. The company who fitted my system are working on a solution, which seems to only be a "battery to battery" charger, which are quite costly. I'm
Happy to Do it if it works though.

Might try going down the solar route if p@f's thread is anything to go by, it looks promising.

These new vans have bigger alternators which will dump vast amounts of charge into the starter battery during regenerative charging at a higher voltage.  Our leisure batteries won't tolerate that higher voltage.  The lead acid battery used on vans for years won't tolerate that voltage or current surge either, so manufacturers are using calcium batteries which, allegedly, will.

This is a good info video. Charles Sterling isn't the most enthusiastic person I've listened to but the info is 'on the button.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WADiMSJ7Yc

I wrote this for another forum recently.

Battery to Battery chargers.

Vehicles manufacturers are being forced by emission regulations to become more environmentally friendly. This has meant that there is a real possibility that vans registered after 2015 are likely to have smart alternators, stop start and regenerative charging.

A conventional Voltage Sensing Relay will not work on these vans, especially if they have regenerative charging. Regenerative charging is simply a system that recharges the battery when a vehicle is decelerating. The van’s ECU will instruct the alternator to charge the van’s starter battery until it is 80% full. It then leaves the remaining 20% to be charged when the vehicle is decelerating on a downhill, braking or slowing down for traffic lights etc. The alternator then puts a high voltage current into the battery. To accommodate this, the battery is now a calcium battery as a lead acid battery won’t tolerate the high voltages. Alternators are bigger and battery capacity has also increased; in some cases both by as much as 100% or more.

Sterling Power Products have been in the forefront of auxiliary battery charging for many years. Their pedigree is from the ambulance service and the Marine industry. According to Sterling their Battery to Battery charger does NOT take current from the starter battery for charging the leisure battery. Rather is uses alternator power to charge the leisure battery. (A ‘smart’ alternator still puts out a nominal voltage of 12.4v so it’s ready to dump a large charge into the starter batter at a moment’s notice. But 12.4v isn’t sufficient to charge the battery. So the Sterling Battery to Battery charger uses that 12.4 volts from the alternator and boosts it up to 14.4 volts which then charges the leisure battery.) There is a wiring schematic included in the pack to accommodate different charging modes. When the regenerative program activates, the battery to battery charger also regulates the voltage of the alternators output so it doesn’t damage the leisure battery. (Under regenerative charging the voltage can reach 15.5v on Ford vehicles and as high as 17.0v + on Renaults according to Sterling. Charging a lead acid battery at these voltages will cause gassing and premature lead acid leisure battery failure.)

A battery to battery charger is much more expensive than the old VSR but as demand increases then they should become cheaper to buy as ‘mass’ production reduces manufacturing costs as does manufacturer competition.

Currently the Sterling BB1230 seems a pretty good buy.

https://sterling-power.com/collections/battery-to-battery-chargers/products/2015-battery-to-battery-chargers-non-waterproof-drip-proof-ip21

At the time of writing (May 2017) they are available via an Ebay supplier for £200.00 with free postage.

These B2B chargers can also be used as replacement for the VSR on older systems and, according to Sterling, will do a better job at charging the leisure battery.  Conventional alternators are brilliant at supplying all the power a vehicle’s owner needs, eg., lights, windscreen wipers, radio etc. But they aren’t good battery chargers.

Great info spruce, and a good informative video too. I'm slowly starting to get my head around it.

Today was an interesting day. We both did a full day's work, going through 700 litres of water and the leisure battery was still reading 12.5 volts.

That is currently with the set up of "direct charge" which I've been told to do till we sort out what the best way going forward is.

The only problem is that I could potentially drain both my leisure battery and van battery down and be stuck, but I'm also bench charging my battery every night so hopefully this gets us through.

You don't get a true voltage reading until around 5/6 hours afternthe battery has been under load or taken a bit of charge

Your battery may say 12.5 but if you checked it just after driving (or working a little) then the chances are that it is still dropping after after the voltage spike it recieved when your van was on

If your batteries are in parallel all you've actually done is create a 'bigger battery'. Although my understanding is that it isn't advised to have two different types of batteries  linked together...

[concept]

Speak to Oliver at Grippatank, he has just the very thing for you.

[prestigeclean]

I had this problem recently with a new transit custom , go to eBay and buy the sterling battery to battery charger About £200 was the cheapest I could find , got mine fitted at the local garage £30 , problem solved regards alan

[prestigeclean]

did you have your system fitted in Corby ?

[Jonny 87]

did you have your system fitted in Corby ?

I did!

How did you guess?

Really happy with the system, this is just the last piece of the puzzle. It will get sorted though I'm sure.

[deeege]

With this thread being over 2 years old, is there any cheaper alternatives on the market these days? Any other solutions other than buying the b2b charger?

[johnwillan]

Has anyone got a new van that's euro 6 compliant and has one of these daft smart alternators? If so how did you get round the split relay charger?

I've just got a 2017 Renault trafic and this has a smart alternator.

Electrics aren't my best subject, so I'm
Trying to read up and get an understanding  of how it all works.

From what I gather smart alternators don't kick out the same power that a standard alternator does (this saves on fuel and emissions)  so this means a standard smart charge relay doesn't kick in.

For the moment I've been advised to wire things up to "direct charge" so the leisure battery is connected directly to my vans battery. But of course the problem with this is that I could run down both battery's and then my van won't start.

I'm Also bench charging my battery every night, but I'm running 2 powerup reels, and two pumps so I worry power may become an issue. The company who fitted my system are working on a solution, which seems to only be a "battery to battery" charger, which are quite costly. I'm
Happy to Do it if it works though.

Might try going down the solar route if p@f's thread is anything to go by, it looks promising.

These new vans have bigger alternators which will dump vast amounts of charge into the starter battery during regenerative charging at a higher voltage.  Our leisure batteries won't tolerate that higher voltage.  The lead acid battery used on vans for years won't tolerate that voltage or current surge either, so manufacturers are using calcium batteries which, allegedly, will.

This is a good info video. Charles Sterling isn't the most enthusiastic person I've listened to but the info is 'on the button.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WADiMSJ7Yc

I wrote this for another forum recently.

Battery to Battery chargers.

Vehicles manufacturers are being forced by emission regulations to become more environmentally friendly. This has meant that there is a real possibility that vans registered after 2015 are likely to have smart alternators, stop start and regenerative charging.

A conventional Voltage Sensing Relay will not work on these vans, especially if they have regenerative charging. Regenerative charging is simply a system that recharges the battery when a vehicle is decelerating. The van’s ECU will instruct the alternator to charge the van’s starter battery until it is 80% full. It then leaves the remaining 20% to be charged when the vehicle is decelerating on a downhill, braking or slowing down for traffic lights etc. The alternator then puts a high voltage current into the battery. To accommodate this, the battery is now a calcium battery as a lead acid battery won’t tolerate the high voltages. Alternators are bigger and battery capacity has also increased; in some cases both by as much as 100% or more.

Sterling Power Products have been in the forefront of auxiliary battery charging for many years. Their pedigree is from the ambulance service and the Marine industry. According to Sterling their Battery to Battery charger does NOT take current from the starter battery for charging the leisure battery. Rather is uses alternator power to charge the leisure battery. (A ‘smart’ alternator still puts out a nominal voltage of 12.4v so it’s ready to dump a large charge into the starter batter at a moment’s notice. But 12.4v isn’t sufficient to charge the battery. So the Sterling Battery to Battery charger uses that 12.4 volts from the alternator and boosts it up to 14.4 volts which then charges the leisure battery.) There is a wiring schematic included in the pack to accommodate different charging modes. When the regenerative program activates, the battery to battery charger also regulates the voltage of the alternators output so it doesn’t damage the leisure battery. (Under regenerative charging the voltage can reach 15.5v on Ford vehicles and as high as 17.0v + on Renaults according to Sterling. Charging a lead acid battery at these voltages will cause gassing and premature lead acid leisure battery failure.)

A battery to battery charger is much more expensive than the old VSR but as demand increases then they should become cheaper to buy as ‘mass’ production reduces manufacturing costs as does manufacturer competition.

Currently the Sterling BB1230 seems a pretty good buy.

https://sterling-power.com/collections/battery-to-battery-chargers/products/2015-battery-to-battery-chargers-non-waterproof-drip-proof-ip21

At the time of writing (May 2017) they are available via an Ebay supplier for £200.00 with free postage.

These B2B chargers can also be used as replacement for the VSR on older systems and, according to Sterling, will do a better job at charging the leisure battery.  Conventional alternators are brilliant at supplying all the power a vehicle’s owner needs, eg., lights, windscreen wipers, radio etc. But they aren’t good battery chargers.

Great info - thank you.

Sterling have a clearance section on their site where you can get the 60amp B2B for around £120  with 6 months warranty.

Pure Freedom use this brand.

[Pete Thompson]

My Ionics system is fitted with a CTEK SmartPass charger that is specifically designed for these new set-ups. (My van is euro 6)

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/ctek-smartpass-120-power-management-system.html

Has worked perfectly for nearly 2 years now, and I’ve never bench charged.

Apparently it also has start assist so that if your vans battery goes flat for any reason it will automatically send power from the aux battery to start the engine.

It’s not cheap, but it seems to work perfectly.

[Simon Trapani]

Haven’t read all thread but just buy a Sterling battery to battery charger. We’ve got one in each of our 2016 Vivaros. Sometimes we ‘bench’ charge in the van from outside socket at weekends. Job done.

[Jon_Phelps]

My Ionics system is fitted with a CTEK SmartPass charger that is specifically designed for these new set-ups. (My van is euro 6)

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/ctek-smartpass-120-power-management-system.html

Has worked perfectly for nearly 2 years now, and I’ve never bench charged.

Apparently it also has start assist so that if your vans battery goes flat for any reason it will automatically send power from the aux battery to start the engine.

It’s not cheap, but it seems to work perfectly.

I have the exact same CTEK smart-pass charger and its brilliant! not had to bench charge at all. its the type of unit used in professional camper van conversions.  its worth pointing out that you need the correct thickness of cable for the distance between vehicle battery and the charger otherwise it won't do the job properly.  I also bought through 12volt planet

[Crystal-clear]

Anyone ever turn the engine on when your leisure batterys running low works a treat 

[deeege]

My Ionics system is fitted with a CTEK SmartPass charger that is specifically designed for these new set-ups. (My van is euro 6)

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/ctek-smartpass-120-power-management-system.html

Has worked perfectly for nearly 2 years now, and I’ve never bench charged.

Apparently it also has start assist so that if your vans battery goes flat for any reason it will automatically send power from the aux battery to start the engine.

It’s not cheap, but it seems to work perfectly.

How easy are these to fit (for someone who’s useless with vans electrics)?

[Frankybadboy]

just had a sterling  charger fitted my self after i had a cheaper charger fitted when i had the van new 3year s ago

the cheaper job was not up to the job and by day 3 the battery would be flat,well with the new sterling system no problems after 4 full days use

dearer yes but less stress,cost me £90 to have it fitted which i could probaly done my self but after spending that much i wanted it done right

[Jon_Phelps]

My Ionics system is fitted with a CTEK SmartPass charger that is specifically designed for these new set-ups. (My van is euro 6)

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/ctek-smartpass-120-power-management-system.html

Has worked perfectly for nearly 2 years now, and I’ve never bench charged.

Apparently it also has start assist so that if your vans battery goes flat for any reason it will automatically send power from the aux battery to start the engine.

It’s not cheap, but it seems to work perfectly.

How easy are these to fit (for someone who’s useless with vans electrics)?

the beauty of the CTEK charger is its simple design.  1 cable to run for the the van battery to the charger and then 2 off that to the battery.  simple.  I ordered a kit, so it had fuses, appropriate cable thickness and lengths. I've attached a picture of the unit and as you can see it really is fool proof.

[deeege]

My Ionics system is fitted with a CTEK SmartPass charger that is specifically designed for these new set-ups. (My van is euro 6)

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/ctek-smartpass-120-power-management-system.html

Has worked perfectly for nearly 2 years now, and I’ve never bench charged.

Apparently it also has start assist so that if your vans battery goes flat for any reason it will automatically send power from the aux battery to start the engine.

It’s not cheap, but it seems to work perfectly.

How easy are these to fit (for someone who’s useless with vans electrics)?

the beauty of the CTEK charger is its simple design.  1 cable to run for the the van battery to the charger and then 2 off that to the battery.  simple.  I ordered a kit, so it had fuses, appropriate cable thickness and lengths. I've attached a picture of the unit and as you can see it really is fool proof.

Thanks for that. I’ll order one and fit it myself then, I’m already bored of connecting my battery to charge overnight and it’s only my third day with the new van.

[Simon Trapani]

Sterling fits pretty much the same.  Need a negative to van battery in both. Or earth/ground as a shortcut to it. Sterling also has an optional temp gauge.

[matty72]

Hi there haven't read everything here but i had problem with this smart alternator, I have a split charger and was not charging enough, what i discovered was if i put my van head lights on it charges battery in back, so this is what i do, lights on every day and battery in back is fine, and safer on the roads, all good. Worth a try rather than all the other hassle and cheaper.

[Spruce]

Hi there haven't read everything here but i had problem with this smart alternator, I have a split charger and was not charging enough, what i discovered was if i put my van head lights on it charges battery in back, so this is what i do, lights on every day and battery in back is fine, and safer on the roads, all good. Worth a try rather than all the other hassle and cheaper.

This was a solution to solve some charging problems. The issue is the amount of volts these smart alternators kick out. This is why these new vans use Calcium batteries as they tolerate higher charging voltages. Higher charging voltages mean quicker charging rates. A maintenance free lead acid leisure battery is only designed to be charged at 14.2v where an open leisure battery can be charged at 14.6v.
If your smart alternator is dumping 15.5 to 17.0v into your battery on deceleration (regenerative braking), it won't take long before your leisure battery is 'toast.'

This is why a split charge relay or a voltage sensing relay isn't the answer for modern vans built from 2016 onwards if they use regenerative braking.
Other vans, such as Citroen and Peugeot use Adblue to meet emission standards. But its never clear which vehicles need a B2B charger and which don't as the new vehicle specs seem to omit these facts.
They just tend to say the they met Euro Emission standards 5 or 6 etc. but never tell us what meeting those standards mean for us.

For those of us that use Boxer/Relay/Ducato vans, we do have a good source of information from the motorhome forums. We glean stuff from them that isn't available anywhere else.

[RPCCS]

Pleased I looked this up , just bought 16 plate Vivaro so will have to use the ordinary 12v charger each night until I can afford a b2b charger

[Spruce]

Pleased I looked this up , just bought 16 plate Vivaro so will have to use the ordinary 12v charger each night until I can afford a b2b charger

The trouble is that a B2B charger may not be the complete answer to your leisure battery charging needs.

We are an industry that no one can fully cater for.  Most of us use a lot of battery energy a day and do very little mileage.  So completely recharging a battery at the end of the day on the drive home just isn't going to happen with short distances/time taken.

A motorhome will travel a long distance and then will probably connect to 'shore power' when they reach their destination.  When they get back home the van will be plugged in and left until the following weekend for example. Its the same with a caravan. 'Wild camping' might deplete the batteries charge but again the battery will be put on charge when the owner returns home.

A lead acid battery takes time to recharge. Ideally we want a lithium ion battery as it will accept a faster charge. But the cons are that they cost a fortune and special precautions need to be considered when charging to protect the alternator against overheating. There are also charging issues when the battery is cold. You can't charge a Lithium ion battery when its below freezing.

Dazmond has two 110 amph leisure batteries running a diesel heater, electric hose reel and single pump. He has a B2B charger but still 'bench' charges his batteries every night.
 
The easiest way to check how the alternator behavours is to buy one of those voltage meters that plug into the cigarette lighter.
If there are times that the alternator produces 12.2 or slightly above volts then you have a smart alternator. If on deceleration your voltage jumps up to 15.0 - 17 volts then you have regenerative braking.

In either case you will need a B2b charger. With  low voltage alternator output you will need a trigger wire to switch the B2B charger on. If your auxiliary charger socket switches off with the ignition then tapping into the feed at the socket will provide the power needed.
The downside is that if you need the ignition on to listen to your radio the B2B charger will be charging your leisure battery using the starter battery.

[RPCCS]

I will ask my dealer tomorrow if the new van has r b.

[P @ F]

I have tried it all , solar setup , using the alternator , separately then both together , I managed not to take the battery out for a bench charge for just over 12 months .
I have now gone back to the good old way of charging every day without fail on the bench and using the solar whilst at work .
Saying that though the battery that lasted 12 months was used to start the van , run a diesel heater and a pump non stop all day so it didn’t do bad for an 85 amper !

[Spruce]

I will ask my dealer tomorrow if the new van has r b.

Also ask what the maximum charging voltage is.

They probably won't be able to answer either question. Probably best to phone the technical dept of Vauxhall with reg and chassis number and ask them.

[Spruce]

I have tried it all , solar setup , using the alternator , separately then both together , I managed not to take the battery out for a bench charge for just over 12 months .
I have now gone back to the good old way of charging every day without fail on the bench and using the solar whilst at work .
Saying that though the battery that lasted 12 months was used to start the van , run a diesel heater and a pump non stop all day so it didn’t do bad for an 85 amper !

Just as Numax said - we are an industry of battery abusers. 

They will sell us batteries no problem but they won't consider a warranty if it goes wrong.


 

[Simon Trapani]

I have two 16 plate Vivaro's. Both have a twin setup with two pumps, two controllers & one 110 leisure battery. Both vans are mostly used by just one man all week and we almost always work very local. Controllers (Spring) are set to around half power (40-60).

We have a Sterling battery to battery charger in each van and they have never given us problems in the 3 years or so we've had one system & a year the other. I use a Ctek mx5 most weekends to fully recharge the battery in each van. I bought an extra set of ring terminal fly leads so as neither battery has to leave the van whilst being 'bench' charged.

My point is that although the maths may not add up, in my real world experience the Sterling battery to battery charger keeps the leisure battery topped up enough in each vehicle to not give any problems. Some weeks I don't 'bench' charge either, especiallly if we've had a quiet week. I think I could possibly get away with not bench charging at all.

[RPCCS]

B2b charger it will have to be then I guess. Another 160 quid I could do without spending. Sooner Im outta this game the better.

[P @ F]

B2b charger it will have to be then I guess. Another 160 quid I could do without spending. Sooner Im outta this game the better.

Or you could just buy any van you wish but buy 2x Numax 105’s at £96 each , one in use and one on charge at all times , it’s not rocket science is it ?
I tried to be clever with all the solar and linked alternator but it wasn’t enough unless you have 12 months of summer per year .
As Spruce says , we are to a degree battery killers of the greatest order so just keep what you have fully charged after every day and you won’t go wrong , buy two and alternate and they will last even longer !

[RPCCS]

B2b charger it will have to be then I guess. Another 160 quid I could do without spending. Sooner Im outta this game the better.

Or you could just buy any van you wish but buy 2x Numax 105’s at £96 each , one in use and one on charge at all times , it’s not rocket science is it ?
I tried to be clever with all the solar and linked alternator but it wasn’t enough unless you have 12 months of summer per year .
As Spruce says , we are to a degree battery killers of the greatest order so just keep what you have fully charged after every day and you won’t go wrong , buy two and alternate and they will last even longer !

Now that’s a good idea! Never thought of that, I have a spare l b in the shed that Ibtook out of the caravan a couple of years back, so will put it on charge tomorrow and see if it works, job done . I can get a 110ah battery from Go Outdoors for about  70 quid

[Simon Trapani]

Doubtful a battery that’s been in the shed for 2 years will be much good.

Personally I used to find it a right pain swapping a battery over every day or two.

[P @ F]

Doubtful a battery that’s been in the shed for 2 years will be much good.

Personally I used to find it a right pain swapping a battery over every day or two.

So did I, but I have come to the conclusion that to keep a battery tip top it needs to be kept as charged as possible at all times , either benched or mains charger fitted to van

[RPCCS]

Apparently on Vivaro/Trafic if a smart alternator is fitted there is a chip next to + terminal on battery. Mine doesn't but has extra connection on - terminal so waiting for Vauxhall to get back to me with clarification.

[RPCCS]

Apparently on Vivaro/Trafic if a smart alternator is fitted there is a chip next to + terminal on battery. Mine doesn't but has extra connection on -terminal so waiting for Vauxhall to get back to me with clarification.

. Turns out it’s on the negative side, not the positive terminal.

[Soupy]

Anyone know if Fiat Doblos have these?

[Spruce]

Anyone know if Fiat Doblos have these?

My experience is that most dealerships wouldn't know what you are talking about if you ask. My experience is that the technical department in Fiat (and others) are just as clueless.

I would suggest you get  one the battery volt meters that plug into the cigarette lighter/auxillary socket and watch what it does when you drive around.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-Car-Auto-Battery-Electric-Cigarette-Lighter-Voltmeter-Voltage-Meter-Tester/254197055372?epid=0&hash=item3b2f533f8c:g:vrEAAOSw3uFbBrnQ

If the voltage drops to +- 12.2v and jumps up to 15 or 16v when decelerating then you have regenerative braking. (I doubt a Doblo has that but anything is possible.)  If like my Peugeot Boxer (made in the Fiat factory in Italy) the alternator charges constantly at 13.9v then a split charge relay won't fully recharge a maintenance free leisure battery as that needs 14.2v. A flooded leisure battery needs 14.6v.

My previous van was a Citroen Relay and that charged at 14.6v. I could have used the split charge relay from that van but opted for a Sterling Battery 2 Battery BB1260 charger. I'm glad I did as I don't have to 'bench' charge my leisure battery as often as I did.

[Soupy]

Anyone know if Fiat Doblos have these?

My experience is that most dealerships wouldn't know what you are talking about if you ask. My experience is that the technical department in Fiat (and others) are just as clueless.

I would suggest you get  one the battery volt meters that plug into the cigarette lighter/auxillary socket and watch what it does when you drive around.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-Car-Auto-Battery-Electric-Cigarette-Lighter-Voltmeter-Voltage-Meter-Tester/254197055372?epid=0&hash=item3b2f533f8c:g:vrEAAOSw3uFbBrnQ

If the voltage drops to +- 12.2v and jumps up to 15 or 16v when decelerating then you have regenerative braking. (I doubt a Doblo has that but anything is possible.)  If like my Peugeot Boxer (made in the Fiat factory in Italy) the alternator charges constantly at 13.9v then a split charge relay won't fully recharge a maintenance free leisure battery as that needs 14.2v. A flooded leisure battery needs 14.6v.

My previous van was a Citroen Relay and that charged at 14.6v. I could have used the split charge relay from that van but opted for a Sterling Battery 2 Battery BB1260 charger. I'm glad I did as I don't have to 'bench' charge my leisure battery as often as I did.

Having problems with my Doblos.

All I'm getting out the alternator is 12ish v which isn't kicking over the split charge relay.

I've bought the doohickey as advised and I'll see what it says when it arrives.