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John Rimmer Marshall & Rimmer Ltd

  • Posts: 101
Re: fast track
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2006, 11:43:34 am »
As i have sead many times on this forum re Fastrack its a pity Robert Saunders
does not put as much effort into his core business as he seams to do with
Fastrack. I agree with a lott that has been sead about it ie that it is to much
based on American styall of marketing, and i may be wrong in this asumption
but feel to make it work you need to be more than a one man band.

                                     Take Care John

garyj

Re: fast track
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2006, 12:22:26 pm »
If I was Robert Saunders I would find it difficult to get excited about selling a £2000 machine or £30 worth of Ultimate Master when I could make 10X that in a weekend on running a Fast Track course. Is it a case of buy the machine then hook the customer into spending more on the course.

From what I have seen of Fast Track, the outlay doesn't end there either. You pay a few grand for the course then it is suggested you do on site carpet audits using a laptop, again there is another £1000+ for the new computer and software.

I wonder if there are any Fast Trackers who are prepared to reveal the true cost of setting up this programme and keeping it going to the letter of the course.

There is a poster on commercial cleaning that uses the tagline ' Profit is sanity, turnover is vanity', I wonder if the extra outlay and marketing costs really outweigh how much ends up in your pocket. Which at the end of the day the only thing that really counts.

Kev Loomes

  • Posts: 1353
Re: fast track
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2006, 05:31:37 pm »
There is a poster on commercial cleaning that uses the tagline ' Profit is sanity, turnover is vanity', I wonder if the extra outlay and marketing costs really outweigh how much ends up in your pocket. Which at the end of the day the only thing that really counts.

Your absolutely right Gary. It's all very well having 2 or 3 vans and techy's but at the end of the day its PROFIT that counts. Yes it all looks lovely on paper - but what good is that? I think it's more to do with BIG ego's myself (ooh, I turn over more than you - so Im better), god what nonsense. There was a chap not long ago who was part of a franchise, very successful too, had the vans and techy's, the lot. Then he finally realised that if he went back to doing it himself - he actually had roughly the same profit margin.

So, he got rid of all the vans/techy's and went back to a one man band!! However, he obviously forgot how hard it was (what with just doing cushy quotes etc) and so he gave the WHOLE thing up.

A message to us all :P

craigp

Re: fast track
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2006, 06:13:03 pm »
i wonder how many fast trackers can one area can take before it loses its effectiveness.

i also wonder if it will become duluited and eventaully fizzel out, as it seems to in the states, i mean if every c/c says "the most thorough cleaning ever" then no ones ahead, and there all starting from the same platform.

i recently did a job that was qouted before me by a fast tracker. i got the job ;D i never even needed a laptop ;D thing is i did it for not much less than the tracker, yet i got no where near is overheads ;D

oh and i qouted over the phone.

Steve Chapman

  • Posts: 1743
Re: fast track
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2006, 07:29:02 pm »
It all just seems a load of nonense to me ;D

What customer wants to sit and look at a laptop presentation, not any of mine thats for sure! ::)

They want there carpets cleaning for crying out loud ::)

Most of what i've heard from fastrack is mostly common sense any how, not worth paying several grand for ???

Just my humble opinion ;)
regards
steve

p.s. - i think all be fast asleep by time i got me laptop up and running :P

mark_roberts

  • Posts: 1899
Re: fast track
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2006, 09:43:47 pm »
I wonder why not many if any FT people post on these boards like us sad lot.

Maybe because their all out working making money.

I spoke to a FT recently who turned £75k on his own working 4 days a week.

Makes you wonder.

Mark

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11578
Re: fast track
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2006, 10:14:20 pm »
working 4 days a week ::) yes but he spent a day marketing so thats 5 days a week like the rest of us!

he made £74k but spent £20k on marketing so really he made less than some of us

I've heard all these stories before ::)

Mike

Ps; remember Mark all carpet cleaners are lying twats, so when he says £74k he really meens £50k
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

garyj

Re: fast track
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2006, 11:41:24 pm »
He worked 4 days a week and made 75k  :o

Wow.

Presume 4 weeks holiday ( inc bank holidays ) that leaves 192 days work.

£390.00 per day. It IS possible. But every day??? As an average!!!!???

That takes some doing.

Don't tell me, he also starts at 9 and finishes by 3 and has a lunch break, and tea and biscuits with the customer.

Should we be saying what a great bloke,  or expect to see him on House Of Horrors. Its a fine line.

craigp

Re: fast track
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2006, 08:54:04 am »
gary, the job i did that tracker qouted, i did 2 single chair £50, tracker qouted £75.

i saw his print out, the print out gives price with and without protection, also pet and alergy care,

this tracker qouted for the lounge £75 (without protection, £120 with) which was around 14 x 13 ft,  theres also a pay monthly option price printed

oh those prices was all printed double that further up the page then there was 50% discount, i guess thats just to make it look good, also theres a consumer advice book left with custy, which has a good pop at every other c/c.

ps gary wheres me CD ;D

craigp

Re: fast track
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2006, 09:06:45 am »
so if you think about it a lounge without protection is any c/c starting point for what we earn, i would imagen a tracker would want £200 for a whole downstairs with protection, 3 jobs a day is enough for any body,

so knowing trackers prices i estimate they could earn upto £600 a day, if there busy, even a queit day like just a lounge is £75

but like us all they must have days with nowt at all.

weather cleaning carpets is worth that much another question ::)

i say 600 a day i mean top end, its probaly rare, i know its not often i hit my top earning capacity. there average is going to be more like 3-400 IF BUSY.

Liahona

Re: fast track
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2006, 09:20:28 am »
I was asked by a mate on here why I hadnt replied to this him knowing what I charge....... So here is

my pennies worth. My feelings are that if we arent "making" at least £400 a day then why on earth

are we in this business? £400 a day should be on average less than two jobs a day. I only work one

 day a week sometimes two but charge considerably more than £75k in a year. I have been speaking

with John Kelly of late about a job he is helping me with and ( I hope he doesnt mind me saying ) he

cleaned one room of carpet and charged close to £600 pounds to clean it. The job John is helping me

with should return I am hoping close to £15,000 CLEAR profit in 3 weeks. If I am allowed to work longer

hours i.e. from 06:00 till 22:00 then I hope to do it in no more than two weeks hopefully even in less

time..........................At 50p a square foot we only have to find 800 square feet to clean to make £400

a day, how difficult can that be? Especially if we are to add on anything else, furniture, tiles and or

protection. If we protected everything we cleaned we would only have to clean half as much to still get

the £400, well just about half. This is one of the easiest jobs as unqualified people (I know we have the

N.C.C.A. and I.I.C.R.C. but really they are only for our selves) to make a boat load of money. Its not hard

work or even in the slightest difficult now is it? Who else do you know can charge £100 an hour to do

what they do? I havent suggested the £100 an hour, this was and is often spoken about by other

cleaners. This being the case, again my point is we should all be charging £400 a day. Else why are we

in this business? I know this will probaly cause a riot but then maybe thats good. The biggest thing

needed both in this country and in the states is a kick up the bum to go and get things done. Like I

have said, if we cant make £400 a day out of one or at most two customers, either get better customers

or get another job........... Sort of a theory of mine.......A good plumber will earn over a thousand a week

so will a good carpenter, bricky, painter etcetera. Not including the vans but on the whole their tools of

the trade dont actually come to much. The plumber having the biggest outlay for tools but the plasterer

for instance probably doesnt have a thousand pounds in to his or her tools, yet still makes a thousand a

week. I have over £35k invested in my tools of the trade just to turn up at a customers house. This

being the case I will be dxxmned if I am not going to make 2, 3 or 4 times what the plasterer earns.

Even if we have mickey mouse machines to clean with they still cost a lot more than the tools of the

trades listed above, save maybe the plumber..... Whoever this fast track bloke is then good luck to him.

Most of the people I know on fast track struggle immensely to maintain a flow of work and even Rob's

golden boys arent earning what they were. My feelings is on the whole the fast track ideas are geared

for a lot of lower priced jobs. My one or two jobs a week is more than what you get when you give

rooms away for free and dont charge for an interim clean. But hey, each to their own. The fast track

isnt a difficult idea and has been around for years. Just that Mr Polish charges $600 as opposed to Mr

Saunders charging what you can get a decent portable for or a second hand truck mount. However it is

we get whatever it is we need, please be charging £400 a day!!!!!! Best as always, Dave.

craigp

Re: fast track
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2006, 09:40:54 am »
 ;D i like your posts dave, always make me aim my sights higher ;D

Liahona

Re: fast track
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2006, 09:55:20 am »
Craig, I just e-mailed you, best, Dave.

craigp

Re: fast track
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2006, 10:35:08 am »
emailed you back Dave ;D

woodman

  • Posts: 1069
Re: fast track
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2006, 12:37:19 pm »
Interesting post by Liahona,

Correct me if I am wrong, you charge £4.50 a sq yd so the room you quoted would have been around 135 sq yds (0ne room) to charge around £600.

As this would not have a domestic job at`that size you are charging £4.50 for commercial work which is a great rate if you can get it.

You only do 1 maybe 2 days a week but earn well over 75k a year so you earn around £1500 a day, which puts you in top earning bracket of any industry in country.

You are clearly the top performing CC in the business and as such should be holding seminars on how you do it,if you do, let me know when the first one is being held as I would certainly pay to attend and learn from you.

garyj

Re: fast track
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2006, 01:18:04 pm »
OK, I stand corrected, I don't doubt the big bucks are possible, I was talking to someone yesterday who made over a thousand pounds at the weekend cleaning carpets and chairs. Those jobs are out there, but to do it week in week out is something else.

I always read Liahona's posts, and though he hasn't been around on this forum long he has made this site a better place with the knowledge he undoubtably has. And he does whet your appetite to go out and get higher end and commercial work. I must admit though, I wouldn't feel comfortable in myself charging 600 quid for a lounge carpet, couldn't they buy a new one  ::).


Craig, I'm in Cheltenham some time over the next 7 days, if you want to meet up somewhere along the way and get these cd's let me know.

Liahona

Re: fast track
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2006, 02:51:03 pm »
Woodman, to clarify, the job for £600 was done by John Kelly which is why I said I hope he didnt mind

me saying. The first commercial job I did was for approx 400 square meters of which I charged £11:50

per square meter. I was the last resort and the fourth cleaner to try to clean the carpet. I simply

doubled the third cleaners price as I would have to clean out his mess as well as the first 2 and then

clean it properly. As I saved then a £60,000 replacement cost, then a little over £4000 wasnt too much

to ask for, nor did they question the price. ........ I try to only work 1 or 2 days a week but that isnt

always poss so sometimes I will work the third day so my average if taken over 2 days would be higher.

I am looking to do a job in London of which John Kelly has helped me no end as to various "stuff" that

needs to be sorted. I am hoping to clear at least £20k over two weeks but I am allowing for it to take 3.

Either way it will boost my average up a wee bit. I am 99% sure of getting the job and the 1% will be

sorted out by next week.......... Sort of a point.....Most plumbers, carpenters, brickies, plasterers and

the like all make £1000 a week. In most cases their tools of the trade save maybe the plumbers are a

few hundred at most. The fact that I have over 35k invested for me just to turn up at a customers

house I will be daxned if I am not going to make 2, 3 or 4 times what they make. Even a mickey mouse

portable or low moisture machine costs more than their tools so why should we settle for less money.

With refference your comment on 75k being the top earning bracket of any industry in the country,

you are having a laugh. Mr Saunders makes that out of less than 20 fast trackers....... A customer of

mine in London who buys and sells diamonds, makes that in a month. I may do well in this cleaning

market but compared to industries in the country 75k is a mere pittance....... When I was in the states I

 often would speak at the I.I.C.R.C. courses. Nothing to do with the course but I knew the company

 putting on the course and they knew how I did what and what I charged for doing so and felt it would

be an interesting 20 minute diversity. My point is or at least one of them is...... you get what you ask for

on the whole. If you ask for a measley 50p a square foot to clean something then the customer will pay

 you 50p. Thats why I charge what I do, which is considerably more. If we all charged the same price

we wouldnt be having this conversation. By the way I would never charge anything, ever to do with

talking about this business. Unless thats all I did but of course I dont.  In this country as well as the

states most of the problem is that we as cleaners need a kick up the bum to do things. I just dont need

the kick. I am sure we or most of us all do good work, then why the hell not charge good money for it?

Someone on here was so proud he cleaned a sofa for I think 70 quid or something stupid like that as

he got the job off of another cleaner who had charged 400. As long as the 400 man gets half what he

quotes for he is still doing so much better than the 70 man...... and wouldnt have to work past

Wednesday afternoon if you get my point. Again, Woodman, you nor anyone else should pay for

anything anyone has to say, we know too bloody well what we need to do. I feel there is nothing I can

teach you, just kick you in the ass to do it.  Nothing hardly is difficult in this business, nothing, save

doing it!!!!!! Hope this helps, best as always, Dave.

Liahona

Re: fast track
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2006, 03:04:11 pm »
Gary, you hit the nail on the head. The goal is to get that type of work day in and day out. That is the

hard part. I dont and probably cant but I have never said I could, not 5 days a week..... I understand

what it is you are saying about charging the 600. But if the carpet is worth 6000 then the customer of

course would pay the 600. I am after a job to do for a museum on an article estimated at half a million.

We all know it isnt worth that but its what the market will pay type of thing. I am sure you can guess I

wont be charging £1 a foot to clean it. It is back in the states where there is no such thing as

treatments risk so I will have to take ALL the risk for the article. Needless to say I am after at least 6

months worth of money to do it. Then  my average will either go up a little or I wont work for 6 months.

I actually want out of this business as I have been doing it long enough and have plans for other

 things. The work is out there you just have to go out and find it!!!! Best, again, Dave.

Liahona

Re: fast track
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2006, 04:59:51 pm »
Well, my 1% just came in and I go the job I was after in London. They have also added quite a bit more

so my hope of 15k or 20k has gone up a little bit. As to how long it will take I am not too sure yet.

Hoping 2 to 3 weeks but can afford it to go to 4 weeks if needs be. I should be able to make about

£4000 on the scaffolding too so that will be enough to by me the machine I need and all the chemicals

needed too. I hope so anyway. This is just one building in London out of how many? On another post

someone had put that there wasnt enough work to go around us as cleaners, again this is just one

building out of goodness knows how many!!!! Best, Dave.

Steve Chapman

  • Posts: 1743
Re: fast track
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2006, 05:04:11 pm »
Dave,
A great deal of what you have said is spot and if there's one thing i've learnt about c/c that's pay yourself what you think your worth :)

Cleaning carpets is hard work!

The point about fasttrack is, i did a job last week for very high profile customer over three days and charged £1609 and he was very happy, and i really didn't need a laptop ::)

Peope don't need clones of people going around doing the same spiel and having a telephone message you can listen that all say the same,  they want to know you can do the job and are human ;D

You don't have to look flashy to charge right, professional yes, but gimmicks don't impress most people.

regards
steve