[davetherave]

Is it a bad idea to use a carpet wand on a hard floor even if you have a plastic carpet glide fitted on to it?

Just seems a pain in arse to have to buy a hard floor wand

[Kev Martin]

Hard Floor Wands are not the way to go!  If you are going to deal with Hard Floors then it is best to get the right equipment and forget Carpet Cleaning Gear.  You need:

1.  A decent Mono Rotary (it does not need to be new to start).
2.  A good quality wet vac (again around £130ish)
3.  A decent Kentucky Mop Bucket on wheels

The rest will come with time.

Hard Floor Wands,  using Portables, TM's or Spinners are a waste of time and you will end up wrecking them!

[davetherave]

thanks for the reply Kevin

[derek west]

Hi Dave. if you are starting on a budget then you can use a glide on a wand but remember that it will wear it down eventually and they are not cheap plus you will put scratches on it that will make it less effective on carpets.
You could buy a hard floor and carpet wand none from john kelly at restoremate  http://www.restormate.co.uk/epages/15094.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/15094/Products/5088

hope this helps.

[Kev Martin]

thanks for the reply Kevin

You are welcome.  Many CC's make the mistake of believing they can adapt CC equipment like HFW & Spinners / SX12 etc to hard floor cleaning.  The fact is, experience of HF Cleaning has proved that keeping everything isolated works best.  I also don't know one single professional full time floor restorer who uses that equipment.

Kevin

[Mike Halliday]

thanks for the reply Kevin

You are welcome.  Many CC's make the mistake of believing they can adapt CC equipment like HFW & Spinners / SX12 etc to hard floor cleaning.  The fact is, experience of HF Cleaning has proved that keeping everything isolated works best.  I also don't know one single professional full time floor restorer who uses that equipment.

Kevin

These are not an 'adaption' but specific, made for purpose hard floor cleaning tools.

they are not carpet cleaning tools but like the name suggest...... hard floor wands (HFW)

[Kev Martin]

Mike

There you have it!!

"These are not an 'adaption' but specific, made for purpose hard floor cleaning tools."

HFW's and Spinners as far as I am aware are adapters designed specifically to run off TM's and Portables to allow CC's to clean some hard floors! 
They are not (Correct me if I am wrong) designed for the use of Honing Powders, Grinding Slurry or applying or extracting Powerful Chemicals!  Any CC IMHO who uses these tools (even occasionally) for such things is risking their very expensive Portable or TM for the sake of a Vac that costs around a £130  and a Rotary that can cost as little as £250-300 second hand.  Furthermore HF Cleaning / Restoration should be isolated to the room being restored as opposed to having hoses running through a house that can very quickly (in inexperienced hands) get covered in slurry or chemical and do untold damage to Carpets or similar.

If you are serious about Professional HF Cleaning, repairs, restoration and sealing then it is simple you need to begin:
Mono Rotary Slow Speed, Professional Wet Vac and a decent size Kentucky Mop Bucket on wheels.  All the rest will come with time.  Anyone who risks their expensive  Portable or TM for the sake of around £500 should stick to CCing and just CLEANING the odd hard floor.

[Mike Gwilliam]

Anyone who risks their expensive  Portable or TM for the sake of around £500 should stick to CCing and just CLEANING the odd hard floor.

I've been using a hard floor wand and extraction machine for years with no damge to equipment or property. The HWE machine stays outside which is where the slurry goes. No using buckets or rinsing and wringing mops.

I would imagine it could be difficult cleaning some deeper grout lines with a mop and vac, whereas it's easy with an extraction wand.

Have you ever tried a HFW Kevin?

[Kev Martin]

Anyone who risks their expensive  Portable or TM for the sake of around £500 should stick to CCing and just CLEANING the odd hard floor.

I've been using a hard floor wand and extraction machine for years with no damge to equipment or property. The HWE machine stays outside which is where the slurry goes. No using buckets or rinsing and wringing mops.

I would imagine it could be difficult cleaning some deeper grout lines with a mop and vac, whereas it's easy with an extraction wand.

Have you ever tried a HFW Kevin?

Mike

Yes I have tried a HFW, A grout Wand, SX12, SX15, Mosmatic FSC both 21" & 12" both with Vacuum Extraction Port Connected to a 300 Bar Falch Pressure Washer and a 3600 Watt Triple Motor Professional Vacuum with pump out. 

The mop bucket and Mop is not used for cleaning either, the Rotary does that!  If you believe a HFW can deep clean heavily stained grout as well as a Rotary fitted with the correct brush then you are mistaken!  Have you ever tried to get old sealer up with a HFW?  Have you seen what thick old sealer will do to your Portable or TM?  I have pulled old cured sheets of sealer out of the bottom of a wet vac 2 inches thick!!!  Imagine what that would do to a TM or Porty!!!  Have you ever done a comparison?

The reply to the post is based on a lot of experience of Honing, Grinding, Repairing, Cleaning, Restoring and Sealing of 100,000+M2 of hard floors of every single type I can think of! 

The whole point is Mike I don't care what you or other people use!  I also didn't say don't use a HFW, Portable or TM my advice is,  that if you want to offer Hard Floor Cleaning and Restoration as a serious part of your Portfolio then purchase dedicated equipment!

[derek west]

Anyone who risks their expensive  Portable or TM for the sake of around £500 should stick to CCing and just CLEANING the odd hard floor.

I've been using a hard floor wand and extraction machine for years with no damge to equipment or property. The HWE machine stays outside which is where the slurry goes. No using buckets or rinsing and wringing mops.

I would imagine it could be difficult cleaning some deeper grout lines with a mop and vac, whereas it's easy with an extraction wand.

Have you ever tried a HFW Kevin?

I'm with you Mike, been using my truckmount for years with an SX12 and its far superior to a wet pick up, looks more professional too IMO.

[Kev Martin]

Anyone who risks their expensive  Portable or TM for the sake of around £500 should stick to CCing and just CLEANING the odd hard floor.

I've been using a hard floor wand and extraction machine for years with no damge to equipment or property. The HWE machine stays outside which is where the slurry goes. No using buckets or rinsing and wringing mops.

I would imagine it could be difficult cleaning some deeper grout lines with a mop and vac, whereas it's easy with an extraction wand.

Have you ever tried a HFW Kevin?

I'm with you Mike, been using my truckmount for years with an SX12 and its far superior to a wet pick up, looks more professional too IMO.

That is a statement from someone who has never used a Professional Wet Vac   

[derek west]

Anyone who risks their expensive  Portable or TM for the sake of around £500 should stick to CCing and just CLEANING the odd hard floor.

I've been using a hard floor wand and extraction machine for years with no damge to equipment or property. The HWE machine stays outside which is where the slurry goes. No using buckets or rinsing and wringing mops.

I would imagine it could be difficult cleaning some deeper grout lines with a mop and vac, whereas it's easy with an extraction wand.

Have you ever tried a HFW Kevin?

I'm with you Mike, been using my truckmount for years with an SX12 and its far superior to a wet pick up, looks more professional too IMO.

That is a statement from someone who has never used a Professional Wet Vac

Just to clarify, i have used  professional wet pick up before, 

[Billy Russell]

yep, i'm with Mike and Derek on this one, there are times I use my professional wet vac, but most of the time I use a spinner or hard floor wand

[Kev Martin]

Once again I didn't  say don't use them,  I said to the OP I wouldn't .  The whole point is the 3 of you are CC's and therefore that is why you use HFW, Spinners, TM and Portables  because you have them!   If you were just entering the HFC industry with no experience I wonder how many of you would run out and buy a Portable or even a TM?  Then what? a HFW and or a SX 15 to go with them???  At the end of the day you only need to Spend £5-600 to start HFC or around £1600 if you want everything new.

[Billy Russell]

you didn't just say you wouldn't use them, you said and I quote............

"Hard Floor Wands are not the way to go"

"Hard Floor Wands,  using Portables, TM's or Spinners are a waste of time and you will end up wrecking them!"

and also going from the op's original post

Is it a bad idea to use a carpet wand on a hard floor even if you have a plastic carpet glide fitted on to it?

I would make an assumption he is also a carpet cleaner.

So, perhaps he might like an opinion from other carpet cleaners as well as hard floor restorers on what they find best to use, what do you think?

[Tony Stewart]

Hi Kevin
Sorry but I totally disagree with you. I have just cleaned a hard floor in a factory this last weekend and used a Rocky with a pad and an alkaline cleaner and a spinner. No way would I use honing powder on a floor as it disrupts the surface. I took a wet vac with me and started to use the wet vac and then used the spinner. The difference was unbelievable. I used 2000 psi and hot water. The speed with which it was cleaned was unbelievable and it allowed my son and I to earn a great rate per hour and the company to obtain a great price due to the productivity that we could achieve. I could probably have just put down the alkaline cleaner let it dwell for a bit and used a spinner. On the altro floor we cleaned that could probably have worked too.
You could have cleaned that floor with a melamine pad. You cvould have cleaned that floor with a tilemaster machine.....the're are lots of ways to do that.
No I wouldn't use my truckmount to pick up slurry containing diamond grit ot honing powder ( but I have a lint hog and that certainly caught all the sludge and clay when I used it to clean some indoor tennis courts). It collected it in the bottom compartment of the lint hog and I then have another filter on the truckmount leading into the waste tank.
As for the grout again I beg to differ. I did a workman's café and again an alkaline degreaser and spun it off. The hot water jets get right in to the porous crevices and suck up the soiling. Everyone says be careful because the grout can pop, but if you inspect it first and its in that sort of state then you would point that out to the customer and have the grout redone. The big trucmounts are designed for that very purpose in mind.
I am sure that the contract cleaning guys on the other channel connect their pressure washers up to whirlaways and blast the dirt out just with the hot water, and no chemical solution at all. They don't have to worry about the water recovery as they are outside.
As for being a serious hard floor restorer I agree..........but not everyone wants a restoration. They mainly want a clean. Even with the serious floor restoration people there are different ways to "restore" some floors. As forDave the Rave  using a carpet cleaning wand with a glide............go for it. Get a little Victor rotary too for £100. Be careful of damaging to bottom and if you get a good result then be pleased and maybe just maybe you may want to try doing something that is a bit harder........then you may want to go on a course or buy some different pads....you may want to have a truckmount or go down the route of tackling hard floors in a different way. There are lots of floors and lots of options. Some are better than others, some work quicker and some are slower. There are millions of acres of floors out there from carpets to vinyl to stone, many just need a clean and some need more, but there is room for everything and everyone in this trade. Enjoy it but lets not knock it.

[derek west]

I think if i was just starting out and i knew what i know now, plus money was no object i would definitely have a truckmount and a spinner and obviously a rotary that would take weight.

If i was on a budget then yeah, probably go for a wet vac and a tilemaster.

[Tadgh O Shea]

Come on guys this is about hard floor cleaning and not restoration work, a simple solution to these problems if you think about it and no need to be spending big money, forget about high alkaline based cleaners these harsh and aggressive cleaners are what cause the problems in the first place as they just grind the soils into the surface from continuous use, honing powder dose not matter which grit they just create a mess.
compressed melamine mop or floor pads which are far more effective and less messy than honing powder. a non-caustic and non-corrosive cleaning solution, microfiber floor cloths to finish off and you are done, this combination can't be matched for performance and results.
Hard floor restoration is a different kettle of fish but in fairness when it comes to deep cleaning of hard floors the above mentioned method is quick effective with no mess and the products required are available from many different suppliers to give guys a choice. Tadgh

[Kev Martin]

We are currently undertaking right now a 300M2 Limestone sealer strip, deep clean and Reseal.   The floor is newly laid but had been badly sealed and all the natural beauty of the stone was lost under layers of sealer applied by someone who didn't have a clue.  Last October three companies were called in.  The client made it clear what he wanted i.e. his stone back with a natural look but sealed.  Each company had to submit RAMS.  One company were sent packing after telling him they would knock it out in 2 days. A test area was done by the second company (video by client) using an SX15 and hot water it didn't touch it.  Then they repeated using stripper, sx15 and hwe and it didn't touch it.  We went  in to do a test area, (we were also the only company to charge for TA) we applied PSRP HDT&G Cleaner and let it dwell 20 minutes then added some 400 grit Honing Powder agitated it with a soft to medium brush and it stripped the floor and the grout back to virgin stone.  We rinsed with pH neutral cleaner and then sealed with Miracle H20+ and the client was over the moon because he now had his Limestone back with the natural features, striations and fossils showing.  We were awarded the work.  The job will take 13-15 working days and we are on it right now.

So once again use what you like, spinners, TM,  portable, HFW,  tilemasters I really don't care!   Until someone can demonstrate and prove to me in a head to head demonstration (anyone?) their method is quicker, better and gives better results than I get.   I  will continue to use and teach my tried and tested methods that I know work and continue to earn Marblelife Limited a lot of money.

[Kev Martin]

So, perhaps he might like an opinion from other carpet cleaners as well as hard floor restorers on what they find best to use, what do you think?
[/quote]

Billy

I think Carpet Cleaners should continue to give their opinions as long as they are based on genuine experience of deep cleaning, tile & grout cleaning, transit wax and sealer removal and not just trying to prove that a spinner or a HFW worked when they washed a simple hard floor because anyone can do that with anything and get a result.

Kev