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Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Dry extracting upholstery
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2015, 07:58:21 pm »
Maybe I'm old school. I thought that encap was used on commercial carpet tiles where they loosened the soil and put a polymer coating round the dirt. When that dried then it was removed with a vacuum cleaner with a beating brush. I use encap where needed with a Cimex so it's not as though I am totally against encapping.
Then  hey ho some bright spark says get an oreck orbiter as a little rotary and lets do a bit of this in customers homes. Be in there quick and out and with the brighteners on the carpet it looks fantastic. Add a bit of lemon smell and the customers will go wild on the speed at which I can "clean" and get a result. Hey my hourly rate goes up and I can always say that the customers like the quick drying times and the carpets look great.
Then try it on minging carpets and it struggles because even on a commercial carpet that has really heavy footfall the soiling is so great that it cannot be cleaned this way as the carpet is full of dirt and it just cannot be lifted out. So you need to extract that out with a hot water extraction machine. So now on a bad EOT it wont cut the mustard.
So then more bright sparks try it on upholstery and get great results, and some now do a combination of HWE on the front and then shortcut the job by putting encap on the rear of the settee.
It's all about what you want to do in the carpet and upholstery cleaning business but to me there is a right and a wrong way. The suppliers supply the products for the correct use and as Simon says you are risking it. Paul Pearce et al would never advocate encapping upholstery in their training sessions.
Just to finish my rant.............went to price up an EOT. Big house and she has to have a receipt for the landlord to show that she has had the carpets cleaned. I discounted the price as it would be empty from £369 to £300 as with a truckmount I could still make it pay. She looked at me and said that all she wanted was the receipt and wasn't bothered about the clean. So maybe that's the next step for some guys - just a receipt and no clean!!!!

Tony,
I agree with every single word of that. And, it is not now, nor will it ever be 'old school'  to be a 'professional.'

It was only ever a matter of time before before encap would  be used beyond the circumstances it was designed for and low and behold, Oreck Orbiter and encap everything, even domestic carpets  and to defend it claim that it is brilliant, my customers love it, never had any complaints blah blah blah!
And now, just as inevitably,  encap is creeping onto upholstered fabrics, for which it most definitely was not designed and, because it does such a great job,  just dry extract it and leave all of those polymers on it for children to ingest at their leisure. Even if you wet extract it, there is no escaping the fact that it wasn't designed for fabrics and therefore shouldn't be used on fabrics....full stop.
But you've got to wonder why? There are loads of fantastic fabric cleaning products out there that were designed for the job, so why use anything else? And if you can't get fabrics clean by any other means then  should you really be cleaning fabrics at all?
Just expressing my opinion btw.

Simon





gwrightson

  • Posts: 3617
Re: Dry extracting upholstery
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2015, 08:18:09 pm »
Maybe I'm old school. I thought that encap was used on commercial carpet tiles where they loosened the soil and put a polymer coating round the dirt. When that dried then it was removed with a vacuum cleaner with a beating brush. I use encap where needed with a Cimex so it's not as though I am totally against encapping.
Then  hey ho some bright spark says get an oreck orbiter as a little rotary and lets do a bit of this in customers homes. Be in there quick and out and with the brighteners on the carpet it looks fantastic. Add a bit of lemon smell and the customers will go wild on the speed at which I can "clean" and get a result. Hey my hourly rate goes up and I can always say that the customers like the quick drying times and the carpets look great.
Then try it on minging carpets and it struggles because even on a commercial carpet that has really heavy footfall the soiling is so great that it cannot be cleaned this way as the carpet is full of dirt and it just cannot be lifted out. So you need to extract that out with a hot water extraction machine. So now on a bad EOT it wont cut the mustard.
So then more bright sparks try it on upholstery and get great results, and some now do a combination of HWE on the front and then shortcut the job by putting encap on the rear of the settee.
It's all about what you want to do in the carpet and upholstery cleaning business but to me there is a right and a wrong way. The suppliers supply the products for the correct use and as Simon says you are risking it. Paul Pearce et al would never advocate encapping upholstery in their training sessions.
Just to finish my rant.............went to price up an EOT. Big house and she has to have a receipt for the landlord to show that she has had the carpets cleaned. I discounted the price as it would be empty from £369 to £300 as with a truckmount I could still make it pay. She looked at me and said that all she wanted was the receipt and wasn't bothered about the clean. So maybe that's the next step for some guys - just a receipt and no clean!!!!

Tony,
I agree with every single word of that. And, it is not now, nor will it ever be 'old school'  to be a 'professional.'

It was only ever a matter of time before before encap would  be used beyond the circumstances it was designed for and low and behold, Oreck Orbiter and encap everything, even domestic carpets  and to defend it claim that it is brilliant, my customers love it, never had any complaints blah blah blah!
And now, just as inevitably,  encap is creeping onto upholstered fabrics, for which it most definitely was not designed and, because it does such a great job,  just dry extract it and leave all of those polymers on it for children to ingest at their leisure. Even if you wet extract it, there is no escaping the fact that it wasn't designed for fabrics and therefore shouldn't be used on fabrics....full stop.
But you've got to wonder why? There are loads of fantastic fabric cleaning products out there that were designed for the job, so why use anything else? And if you can't get fabrics clean by any other means then  should you really be cleaning fabrics at all?

Simon

What ever you say Simon, 
Do me a favour , don't tell me I shouldn't be cleaning upholstery with encap, leaving residuals in  the material , what a load of b******s.

note to one self ........ don't buy your book

Geoff
who ever said dont knock before u try ,i never tried dog crap but i know i wouldnt like  haha

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Dry extracting upholstery
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2015, 08:31:18 pm »
Geoff,
Like I said, just expressing an opinion.
But tell me something. Given the vast range of fabric cleaning products out there, why choose one that wasn't designed for fabric? 

Simon

gwrightson

  • Posts: 3617
Re: Dry extracting upholstery
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2015, 08:42:08 pm »

Simon
Quite simple really, I found encap was superb on a number of fabrics ,especially some of the cheap micro fibre materials, flocks ,buffalos .
It gives me a couple of options, extraction and towelling   , normally towelling sides and back as generally speaking these are not so soiled. better I think than some cleaners who simply spray these areas with the tool       .

I do use other products  when necessary .

Geoff
who ever said dont knock before u try ,i never tried dog crap but i know i wouldnt like  haha

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Dry extracting upholstery
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2015, 08:48:16 pm »
Well then you have redeemed yourself., but then you did make it appear that you had succumbed to the encap revolution and had sold your professional soul to the encap revolution😃
Simon

Robin Ray

Re: Dry extracting upholstery
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2015, 09:01:37 pm »
Isn't encapping upholstery actually just a new way of doing the old school shampooing of upholstery but with a polymer encapsulant rather than a crystal encapsulator. Which is the method almost everything was cleaned with before HWE was invented.

Isnt this method really ment to be used either for maintenance or problem solving.

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Dry extracting upholstery
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2015, 09:17:55 pm »
Robin,
I suppose.
The trouble is in the  period since, extraction cleaning came along and with it the means to physically remove the soil rather than just crystallising it with a shampoo, which led to the present generation of chemicals that obtain a high level of soil release to make the extraction process more effective.
You can do the same thing today with shampoos, if you mix something like SPM with Oxibrite and  fibre shampoo you will get a  similar effect as Encap on low profile carpets.

Simon

Tony Stewart

  • Posts: 320
Re: Dry extracting upholstery
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2015, 09:57:21 pm »
So we encap the front or we then encap just the sides because they are not that dirty but it sort of saves time. Or we encap the arms and try and pull out the oil and grease that has been deposited by sweat, perspiration and body oils and we then take a bit more off with a towel.
So all that I understand. Then the remaining dirt is left to dry and the soiling because it is coated with the encap product is then ready to be extracted from the suite by vacuuming.
So we have cleaned the suite with something primarily designed to be finished off by dry vacuuming the debris out afterwards. So how many have vacuumed the suite before encapping and then telling the customer that they need to remove the debris by vacuuming the suite afterwards to finish the cleaning process. I suspect that not only is the customer not told this but never actually vacuums the suite anyway. I also suspect that very few are vacuumed before the clean which is what should be done before encapping  begins as per the instructions.
Even if I told my customers this they would question the clean (after all it is technically a maintenance clean) and don't vacuum the suite anyway.

Starts at the bottom likes it and stays there

gwrightson

  • Posts: 3617
Re: Dry extracting upholstery
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2015, 10:26:17 pm »

I always ask my customers if they vac their suite, I also recommend that they do so regularly if not, infact I tell them to physically brush the suite , have you tried brushing the arms of a suite before cleaning, its amazing the amount of dust that flies off even after vacuuming. so yes I do tell the customers.

As for encapping itself in regards to carpets I believe I was one of the first to take it on board many years ago after been introduced to it by H Halliday, I was amazed by the results, ( in the right situation) and  after been so impressed the first thing I did was buy a cimex  . No regrets and has earned me  some good £££££££,s in the process .

Geoff.
ps. as already stated previously, Very rare I use it on domestics.
who ever said dont knock before u try ,i never tried dog crap but i know i wouldnt like  haha

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Dry extracting upholstery
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2015, 10:32:01 pm »
When I used to work for Franklins all we used was crystallising shampoo an early encap on carpets and upholstery the results were great as I remember, on upholstery where in the day we were cleaning very lacquered on hair spray the shampoo just bounced over the top so applying solvent would break up the sticky contaminant but you try applying a foaming shampoo after, it just turned it to a watery messed, we used Holloway swifts to scrub in the shampoo and extracted off the foam and on the body contact areas we would rinse extract eventually one step was brought in which was applied by spray then scrubbed in then rinsed.

I do believe that you do need a rinse on body contact areas minimum.

Shaun


gwrightson

  • Posts: 3617
Re: Dry extracting upholstery
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2015, 10:41:31 pm »

"I do believe that you do need a rinse on body contact areas minimum"

Completely agree Shaun

Geoff
who ever said dont knock before u try ,i never tried dog crap but i know i wouldnt like  haha