[timsterT]

Hi All , 

I'm hoping you can help me .
I am a big believer in forums , and getting and giving advice from people who are actually doing the job 

I recently became redundant after working for a company for 10 years .
And have decided to start my own window cleaning  business . 
This will be a totally new job for me , as I've mainly done indoor retail sales jobs n the past . But I'm a hard worker and not afraid of putting the effort in .

I'm from N.Ireland and have a budget of about 4500 quid . 

I will be on my own to start and I'm looking for some help and advice . Or point me in the direction of a post / topic that has it . 

My main questions are : 

Is my budget realistic for a van and WFP system ? 
Is it workable to do on your own ?
What will my average start up costs be ? 
What's an average income per week ? 
Is this a bad time of year to be starting ? 

I was thinking of contacting window cleaning companies that are about 100 miles ( so as nit to infringe on their business area ) away to see if I could volenteer for some on the job experience

Any help I'd much appreciated , as I'm pretty much sh#tting myself about blowing all my savings and going out on my own in a new business .

Thanks 

Tim

[AuRavelling79]

You've come to the right place, welcome. We can help. Most of us are self-employed sole operators with a few who employ one or two others.

Most of us have self assembled a system and put it in a van.

Now to the nitty-gritty. Have you got any say as to when you leave your job? If so then having a few months to plan makes a lot of sense.

[Smudger]

Well, before you even consider spending any of your money, answer a few questions...

What makes you think you can be a window cleaner ?
Have you been out knocking on doors to get customers lined up ?
Are you prepared to knock doors and canvass for business?
Can you survive for a few months on a small income until your get customers?
What's your business plan for the first 12 months ?

You can easily blow 4.5k and not like window cleaning, not get customers, hate the job, and all that money is gone, I'd be inclined to do some trad first, or just get a backpack and run it from my car, or buy a cheap van (combo) for around 1k - then expand the equipment as you build you customer base

Darran

[timsterT]

You've come to the right place, welcome. We can help. Most of us are self-employed sole operators with a few who employ one or two others.

Most of us have self assembled a system and put it in a van.

Now to the nitty-gritty. Have you got any say as to when you leave your job? If so then having a few months to plan makes a lot of sense.

Thanks for the Welcome
I've been an active member of a number of car owners forums for many years giving people help and advice on servicing and repairs , and always believe the info from forum members is the best .

I've about 2 weeks before I finish up at work .
From what I've read on the forum , the WFP system is the way to go , and I've been looking on ebay and gumtree and on here for vans with equipment included .
Not sure how many members on here from N.Ireland , but prices over here for window cleaning a domestic house 3 bedroom seem to be a fair bit less than the mainland .

Average price seems to be 8 - 10 quid for a house ( 4 weekly ) .

[AuRavelling79]

Frankly this isn't the best time of year to start. (But there seldom is) My suggestion would be get a part time wage job especially between finishing and Xmas and start banging doors right now explaining that you are "expanding in the new year". This will let you gauge interest and maybe sign a few up.

If the signs are good then use the quiet Xmas period to get yourself a van and kit it out. Or build a trailer system and stick it on the family car.

What are your obligations? (Wife/kids/single/rent/mortgage etc?)

[H20cleaning]

If you don't have money to buy someone's established round I wouldn't think about it.

I'm 23 now been in business 5 years and I have just hit the 3k a month mark, my average house price is £11.54.
Which is great for the north east of England, I'm sure I will get some southerners laughing at me 
I started with no work just a van and tools... Believe me good customers are hard to come by, leaflets only work well if your doing 50k drops every couple of months.
Canvassing is possibly the best way, but it's sole destroying getting so much rejection(you might be used to this working in sales)
I would say a realistic startup cost would be 10k, this could get you a small round maybe £1000 a month, and a cheap van and DIY system

[timsterT]

Well, before you even consider spending any of your money, answer a few questions...

What makes you think you can be a window cleaner ?
Have you been out knocking on doors to get customers lined up ?
Are you prepared to knock doors and canvass for business?
Can you survive for a few months on a small income until your get customers?
What's your business plan for the first 12 months ?

You can easily blow 4.5k and not like window cleaning, not get customers, hate the job, and all that money is gone, I'd be inclined to do some trad first, or just get a backpack and run it from my car, or buy a cheap van (combo) for around 1k - then expand the equipment as you build you customer base

Darran

Hi Darran
Thanks for getting back to me .

I enjoy working outdoors and have never been afraid of hard work .
I have worked in the customer facing / sales industry for 18 years and have no problem calling door to door , delivering flyers , and promoting via social media .

Tbh , I really just want to be my own boss  , and if I can get by on making a half decent salary per week I'd be happy enough .

On the limited research I've done to date , there does not seem to be to many window cleaners in my area ( going on a 15 - 20 mile radius ) , and my hope is to start off doing window and then hopefully expand to pressure washing , guttering , and other cleaning services .

My first though on a business plan for the next year after I've left work was to set up a local car wash , but with my budget and set up costs locally this is not possible at the minute .

I haven't been out knocking doors yet , as I'm not at that stage at the minute , with redundancy meetings etc .

I know this is an open question but whats an average income for the first few months likely to be ?

I've based a start up estimate on me doing a lot of canvassing to start up , via door knocks , leaflets , social media , and word of mouth .
Maybe something like an introductory offer ?
A rough starting estimate I would hope for is 5 - 8 houses a day at about 30 / 45mins per house at £10 , over 5 days would be an income of about 350 - 400 ( before costs / fuel / tax / insurance etc )

Does this sound realistic , or have I got it completely wrong ?

Thanks again for all your input , really appreciate it .

Cheers

[Perfect Windows]

Tim,

Good on you.

Don't underprice; you'll regret it later and resent doing the underpriced jobs.  If you're in a part of the country where people have cash, charge more; they'll pay it.  Customers you gain in winter will stick with you like glue.

Leaflet and canvass together.  Work out what frequencies you're going to offer and stick to them.  Decide now how you're going to get round your customers and how you'll add new ones (much easier than reorganising later).

Get a notebook.  Read through fifty pages of posts on here and make a list of who posts sense.  Go back into the past to find good posters.  Ian Lancaster might be a good start, though he doesn't post too much now.  Then use the search facility to find all their posts and read the lot.  Note what they do and take the best of their ideas.  However, don't be afraid to improve what they are doing if you are sure you know better - that's how people beat the opposition.  Ignore any posts that look like they are just a whinge.  (Not just when you start, keep up the habit - people who whine about weather and van problems on here just sap your willpower)

Surround yourself with optimists.

Expect to work twice as hard for everything than you initially expect.

When you start cleaning, make sure you're eating enough.  It's hard work at the start and when you're low on fuel, your morale will drop.  Keep well fuelled by eating and drinking enough.

Finally, the simple bit.  If you keep on turning up and you keep on getting their windows clean, you'll not lose many customers and they'll recommend you to everyone they meet.

Vin

[timsterT]

If you don't have money to buy someone's established round I wouldn't think about it.

I'm 23 now been in business 5 years and I have just hit the 3k a month mark, my average house price is £11.54.
Which is great for the north east of England, I'm sure I will get some southerners laughing at me 
I started with no work just a van and tools... Believe me good customers are hard to come by, leaflets only work well if your doing 50k drops every couple of months.
Canvassing is possibly the best way, but it's sole destroying getting so much rejection(you might be used to this working in sales)
I would say a realistic startup cost would be 10k, this could get you a small round maybe £1000 a month, and a cheap van and DIY system

Thanks for the reply mate .

Where I live there is not the option to buy someone else's round , ad I'm hoping because of the small market that I can build on that .

And yes your right , being from a sales / retail background , I'm no stranger to ignorant customers and a fair bit of rejection .

My budget is pretty set at 4500 to 5000 max , so no way I could stretch to 10k for start up ! .
Prices for an older van and WFP system seem to be pretty good for my budget .

Although I do have a decent sized 4x4 , so I could start off with a trailer system , but that's not really ideal for me .

[timsterT]

Tim,

Good on you.

Don't underprice; you'll regret it later and resent doing the underpriced jobs.  If you're in a part of the country where people have cash, charge more; they'll pay it.  Customers you gain in winter will stick with you like glue.

Leaflet and canvass together.  Work out what frequencies you're going to offer and stick to them.  Decide now how you're going to get round your customers and how you'll add new ones (much easier than reorganising later).

Get a notebook.  Read through fifty pages of posts on here and make a list of who posts sense.  Go back into the past to find good posters.  Ian Lancaster might be a good start, though he doesn't post too much now.  Then use the search facility to find all their posts and read the lot.  Note what they do and take the best of their ideas.  However, don't be afraid to improve what they are doing if you are sure you know better - that's how people beat the opposition.  Ignore any posts that look like they are just a whinge.  (Not just when you start, keep up the habit - people who whine about weather and van problems on here just sap your willpower)

Surround yourself with optimists.

Expect to work twice as hard for everything than you initially expect.

When you start cleaning, make sure you're eating enough.  It's hard work at the start and when you're low on fuel, your morale will drop.  Keep well fuelled by eating and drinking enough.

Finally, the simple bit.  If you keep on turning up and you keep on getting their windows clean, you'll not lose many customers and they'll recommend you to everyone they meet.

Vin

Thanks Vin

Really good positive response

In my spare time I compete in extreme endurance events and mud runs , and defo keep an eye on my eating / fuelling habits .

Seems to be a lot of info on the site , and seems very easy to get lost and spend hours going through posts

Thanks for your info

[Johnny B]

I am in the south west of Ireland, so don't have any idea how it compared to the north.   BUT

I (re)started up 4 and a half years ago when I moved here from England. It was in the middle of the recession, and my new area was ravaged by said recession.

I knocked doors from within a week of moving, and found work straight away, although it has taken me the best part of the 4 years I have been here to build a run which generates enough to make a reasonable living. There were lots of people who didn't want a regular clean, some were one-offs, some were non-payers. You get the drift...

It was tough going, and I did it all by canvassing, although I am now picking up all of my new customers by word of mouth or walk ups (mostly the former).

My mindset from the word go was that failure is not an option, and this made me very determined to succeed, even though I was told by well meaning friends that I'd never find enough work to make a living.
 
I use traditional methods still, and it may be an idea for you to start this way, as initial outlay is minimal,
so you can try this game out to see if it is for you, before going the waterfed pole route.

These days it will take you at least 2 years to build a decent run (as I said, it's taken me 4 and it's still growing) so don't set your expectations too high, too soon.

I find that December gets very busy (everyone wants clean windows for xmas) so I see no reason why you shouldn't go out there and canvass now.

Hope this helps in some way, and welcome to the madhouse btw.

John

[timsterT]

Frankly this isn't the best time of year to start. (But there seldom is) My suggestion would be get a part time wage job especially between finishing and Xmas and start banging doors right now explaining that you are "expanding in the new year". This will let you gauge interest and maybe sign a few up.

If the signs are good then use the quiet Xmas period to get yourself a van and kit it out. Or build a trailer system and stick it on the family car.

What are your obligations? (Wife/kids/single/rent/mortgage etc?)

This is a great idea , start canvassing and leafleting  now saying that I'm expanding in the new year  and gauge an idea of potential market size , and hopefully sign up customers .

Atm I am renting , and have no mortgage or kids . And no major debts

[timsterT]

I am in the south west of Ireland, so don't have any idea how it compared to the north.   BUT

I (re)started up 4 and a half years ago when I moved here from England. It was in the middle of the recession, and my new area was ravaged by said recession.

I knocked doors from within a week of moving, and found work straight away, although it has taken me the best part of the 4 years I have been here to build a run which generates enough to make a reasonable living. There were lots of people who didn't want a regular clean, some were one-offs, some were non-payers. You get the drift...

It was tough going, and I did it all by canvassing, although I am now picking up all of my new customers by word of mouth or walk ups (mostly the former).

My mindset from the word go was that failure is not an option, and this made me very determined to succeed, even though I was told by well meaning friends that I'd never find enough work to make a living.
 
I use traditional methods still, and it may be an idea for you to start this way, as initial outlay is minimal,
so you can try this game out to see if it is for you, before going the waterfed pole route.

These days it will take you at least 2 years to build a decent run (as I said, it's taken me 4 and it's still growing) so don't set your expectations too high, too soon.

I find that December gets very busy (everyone wants clean windows for xmas) so I see no reason why you shouldn't go out there and canvass now.

Hope this helps in some way, and welcome to the madhouse btw.

John

Hi John
Thanks for your reply mate . I appreciate it .
What do you charge down south per house ?
How do you promote customers to sign up for regular cleaning ? .
Is once per month cleaning the standard ?

Thanks

[H20cleaning]

The reason I said 10k was to buy a window cleaning round included.
Been serious for you to be making £350-400 a week it's going to take you at least 2 year I reckon, (that's based on north east prices) you will obviously get extra jobs in summer, but to have a round generating £350-400 a week will take a couple of years.

If you have a house, overheads, car finance, kids then I wouldn't even think about it unless you have another half working or you buy a round

[timsterT]

Thanks for the reply .
I had no idea that it would take 2 years to build up a 350 - 400 a week round .

Is this pretty standard ?

I'm hoping that canvassing and sign ups will give me a better idea of potential income .

I've no kids , mortgage or finance to speak of .

Thanks

[Johnny B]

I am in the south west of Ireland, so don't have any idea how it compared to the north.   BUT

I (re)started up 4 and a half years ago when I moved here from England. It was in the middle of the recession, and my new area was ravaged by said recession.

I knocked doors from within a week of moving, and found work straight away, although it has taken me the best part of the 4 years I have been here to build a run which generates enough to make a reasonable living. There were lots of people who didn't want a regular clean, some were one-offs, some were non-payers. You get the drift...

It was tough going, and I did it all by canvassing, although I am now picking up all of my new customers by word of mouth or walk ups (mostly the former).

My mindset from the word go was that failure is not an option, and this made me very determined to succeed, even though I was told by well meaning friends that I'd never find enough work to make a living.
 
I use traditional methods still, and it may be an idea for you to start this way, as initial outlay is minimal,
so you can try this game out to see if it is for you, before going the waterfed pole route.

These days it will take you at least 2 years to build a decent run (as I said, it's taken me 4 and it's still growing) so don't set your expectations too high, too soon.

I find that December gets very busy (everyone wants clean windows for xmas) so I see no reason why you shouldn't go out there and canvass now.

Hope this helps in some way, and welcome to the madhouse btw.

John

Hi John
Thanks for your reply mate . I appreciate it .
What do you charge down south per house ?
How do you promote customers to sign up for regular cleaning ? .
Is once per month cleaning the standard ?

Thanks

Hi, I charge 1.50 euro per 'frame', so a standard 3 bedroom semi would be around 15 euro, or 18-20 for the same with a bay window. I'm told this is cheap, but as I am  in County Kerry where we're all paupers, I feel this is enough. Obviously if you are in an affluent area, you will be able to justify charging more than this, so it's an open ended answer really.

I don't sign anyone up to a specific frequency, as I quickly found that some peoples' word mean very little, but I do have customers who I clean for on 2, 4, 6, 8 and 12  weekly intervals. I also have some weekly shops as well. In addition I have a good number of customers who call me as and when, so I fit these in around my regulars. It does sound complicated, but I have found that keeping my customers happy keeps me busy enough and it works well enough for me to be making a reasonable living.

Things may be different where you are, but I hope some of what I have said may help.

John

[H20cleaning]

Thanks for the reply .
I had no idea that it would take 2 years to build up a 350 - 400 a week round .

Is this pretty standard ?

I'm hoping that canvassing and sign ups will give me a better idea of potential income .

I've no kids , mortgage or finance to speak of .

Thanks

I'm just going from my experience and my uncle who also does the same.

The rewards are there but the first 2/3 years are a killer.

Imagine me at 17 trying to pay £160 insurance on a van, plus costs... I honestly didn't make a penny some weeks but I would not give up and sit on my A like my other mates.


Been realistic, imagine if you started Monday.
Do you think you could go out and get 45 customers at £10.00?
I think you would struggle to get that in one month at first... It takes years mate, that's why it's best to buy a round so at least you have say £1000 a month coming in minimum.
I only managed because I lived at home and had understanding parents who looked after me when I need loans etc

[Walter Mitty]

If you don't have money to buy someone's established round I wouldn't think about it.

I'm 23 now been in business 5 years and I have just hit the 3k a month mark, my average house price is £11.54.
Which is great for the north east of England, I'm sure I will get some southerners laughing at me 
I started with no work just a van and tools... Believe me good customers are hard to come by, leaflets only work well if your doing 50k drops every couple of months.
Canvassing is possibly the best way, but it's sole destroying getting so much rejection(you might be used to this working in sales)
I would say a realistic startup cost would be 10k, this could get you a small round maybe £1000 a month, and a cheap van and DIY system

Thanks for the reply mate .

Where I live there is not the option to buy someone else's round , ad I'm hoping because of the small market that I can build on that .

And yes your right , being from a sales / retail background , I'm no stranger to ignorant customers and a fair bit of rejection .

My budget is pretty set at 4500 to 5000 max , so no way I could stretch to 10k for start up ! .
Prices for an older van and WFP system seem to be pretty good for my budget .

Although I do have a decent sized 4x4 , so I could start off with a trailer system , but that's not really ideal for me .

You've just revealed a vital piece of info - you have a vehicle.  Would you be able to throw the value of that vehicle on top of your £4.5 to £5k to get yourself a reasonable van and basic system.  Also, do you have facilities at home to set up a holding tank (with filters) in a garage or insulated shed?  Are you able to borrow a bit if necessary?
First things first though - you need customers.  I like Granville's suggestion of part time job while you are building.  When I first started, I was on the dole.  I had an old car and about £200.  I bought some roof bars, borrowed a ladder and went door knocking.  Even though I had very low outgoings, I was still VERY grateful for a well paid driving job (self-employed) where I went away one week per month plus a few days here and there from a couple of job agencies.  I would be sweeping the pavement one day, unloading boxes from a conveyor belt another day, going away driving - and filling the gaps with window cleaning.  Gradually, it reached the point where I didn't have time for the other jobs.  It took a while though.  I door knocked after 5 pm - not so easy in winter but I did it anyway.  Some evenings I wouldn't get a single customer but others, I might get 6 or 8.

[Smudger]

No 2 years is not standard, neither is 3 months - everyone's resolve to get work is different and no 2 areas are the same, 6 years ago I started out with less than £1000 to my name by month 3 I was bringing in £350p/w which just about covered the rent,food etc.. But I started a little earlier in the year ( sept ) I had to canvass, canvass, canvass - for a couple of months I did it trad, before getting a basic van with a tank and Ali pole for £1100

Ro system, etc I had to buy and learn how to operate and learn how to WFP without bad results, that's why a bit of trad will help you in the early days,
Time of year is your biggest obstacle as many now will only want a one off Christmas clean, but if you can keep it going then you should be in a great position to pick up work from Feb. ( assuming we don't have a late hard winter )

Vin and I have been going around the same time, and both have a similar size biz but got there in different ways, vin is defo one to listen to as is Granville and spruce, some others too, but I'm sure you'll soon see for yourself who is worth taking note of.

Research will be your best friend so search the forum for answers.

Darran

[Don Kee]

Agree with smudger, its hard to put a time frame on things

Depending on your effort & what you hope to achieve will determine alot

My advice, see if you can go out with someone and learn the ropes. Just a few days, so you can actually work out if its something you can & want to do

Van & system is the easy bit. The hard bit is customers. (I say hard, this is where your effort level will come in)

Canvass (and expect alot of rejection) and clean everyday for 3-6 months and theres no reason as to why you cant get a livable income in
(5 a day, 5 days a week for 3 months is 15 a day or £150 a day at £10average. With drop offs etc...you'll still not be doing bad...the main thing is effort/motivation to do it)

Its alot of work, but short term effort for long term gain will make it worth it

It always seems a great idea before you try something, when you start just remember your motivation, keep going even when you cant be a55ed and you'll pick up customers in no time

Good luck