[NWH]

Does anyone on here have one I'm interested to see what temp they run at,I have a heatwave and I'm told they are the same internally.

[Smurf]

My understanding is they are both webasto type water heaters with a heat exchanger fitted and rated in KW output depending what model is in them. Regarding max temp I've not got a clue as don't use them as prefer to use lpg water heaters instead.

[NWH]

I was interested for when I get a new one at some point,the ionic one has its own built in battery which is needed if running 2 pumps. The Grippa system uses the same one as I have in mine

[Richard Stevenson]

I have a ionic heated system,  the problem is you cannot control the heat of the water and it get very hot , starts popping connections , it's only used in extreme conditions.

[Spruce]

Does anyone on here have one I'm interested to see what temp they run at,I have a heatwave and I'm told they are the same internally.

The Webasto they use is basically an engine block heater.  Its designed to heat the internal coolant water in an engine and defrost cabin  windows. It will switch off before the temperature gets hot enough to open the thermostat of the vehicles radiator.

The Webasto heats an internal water circuit and includes a water to water plate heat exchanger to transfer heat from this circuit to your hot water supply. Output temp is adjustable and regulated by a TMV (thermostatic mixing valve).

If its the Webasto 90 then the factory defaults are;

The electronics in the Webasto control panel instructs the heater to heat the water in its internal circuit to 82 degrees before it switches off.  At 72 degrees the heater goes into half throttle mode. If hot water is drawn down during this period the half throttle status will stay in operation until the internal circuit temperature reaches 67 degrees. Should the internal temperature drop lower then the burner will return to full heating mode.

When 82 degrees is reached the burner switches off and goes into standby mode. It takes 3 minutes for the switch off process to complete. The internal pump will still continue to circulate water through the heat exchanger. When the internal heating circuit temperature drops to 67 degrees the startup process begins again.

If you are unfortunate enough the start drawing hot water a few moments after the burner has switched off having reached 82 degrees, then you will end up with cold water for 3 to 6 minutes whilst the boiler goes through its shut down and start up regime.

During start up they draw a lot of current, hence the reason why some suppliers add a second battery.

Webasto heaters work well using road diesel, but don't work well when using red diesel.

[Spruce]

I have a ionic heated system,  the problem is you cannot control the heat of the water and it get very hot , starts popping connections , it's only used in extreme conditions.

What you want is the thermostatic mixing valve assembly on this heat exchanger. You already have the heat exchanger.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WEBASTO-EBERSPACHER-TMV-Thermostatically-controlled-hot-water-heat-exchanger-/181480196765?hash=item2a41100a9d

Here's the valve on its own.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-BSP-LK550-Thermostatic-mixer-valve-used-some-solar-water-heating-systems-/171308197708?hash=item27e2c3a74c

Ionics have tried to keep the boiler running by using a by pass pressure valve. If you switch off your water supply then the pump will transfer hot water back into your tank.

They really needed another heat exchanger with a temperature controller operating the second pump. That could draw water from the tank, pump it through the second heat exchanger and back into the tank. The temperature controller could be set to switch the second pump in at 75 degrees and switch it off at 70 degrees. This would keep the heater in reduced heat mode.

[Smurf]

Sounds all too complicated to me spruce as I know the cost of servicing these webasto type heaters are not cheap either so has always put me off. From my understanding they are not best suited to wfp work due to the way they operate on demand. That's why it seems most using them are setup to operate on heating the water in the van tank and not on demand.

I would be interested on any honest opinions from cleaners that actual use them how good or bad these heaters actually are.

[Spruce]

Sounds all too complicated to me spruce as I know the cost of servicing these webasto type heaters are not cheap either so has always put me off. From my understanding they are not best suited to wfp work due to the way they operate on demand. That's why it seems most using them are setup to operate on heating the water in the van tank and not on demand.

I would be interested on any honest opinions from cleaners that actual use them how good or bad these heaters actually are.

Gas is much more convenient and easy to set up. Replacing a unit wfper's commonly use is cheap as well - less than £100. They also work very well. The only issues are having to vent them, securing an LPG gas bottle and remembering to drain them down every night in winter.

Diesel will always be a better option than gas as its a safer fuel, especially if you employ and you need hot water.

[NWH]

Thanks for replies but I know how they work I have 1,there is a way to get the water hotter which is a simple fix internally. And as for it being complicated it's not I just turn mine on in the morning and turn it off when I've finished work simples,I don't bother adjusting my mixing valve and never have I use it flat out even in winter and have never had any glass cracking problems probably due to the way I select houses to clean on bitterly cold mornings. On PVC Windows you can clean at silly temperatures they have never given so much as a creek in cold weather

[Smurf]

Thanks for replies but I know how they work I have 1,there is a way to get the water hotter which is a simple fix internally. And as for it being complicated it's not I just turn mine on in the morning and turn it off when I've finished work simples,I don't bother adjusting my mixing valve and never have I use it flat out even in winter and have never had any glass cracking problems probably due to the way I select houses to clean on bitterly cold mornings. On PVC Windows you can clean at silly temperatures they have never given so much as a creek in cold weather

What temp does yours run at then before having to mess about with it?
Are you using it on demand or just heating the water in the tank?

[NWH]

It's the same as the thermopure heater it has a coolant tank with plate exchanger it heats the water to around 55-60 degrees

[Spruce]

It's the same as the thermopure heater it has a coolant tank with plate exchanger it heats the water to around 55-60 degrees

As a single operator I doubt you will get anything more out of it temperature wise. Twin operator will be working a 9kw to its limit so I doubt you will even reach those temperatures.

The water heater market is incline to use the 5kw water heater as a single operator unit as its cheaper. The most I could get out of the 5kw unit was raising the temps from 5 degrees to 35 degrees with a flow to the brush of 1.5 LPM.

[Smurf]

That's interesting spruce as I can get 75c out of my cheapo lpm gas water heater before the thermal cut out kick in running the wfp at half bore. It can run all day long quite happily at 65c if I wanted it to so seems it out perform the much more expensive webasto type heaters.

[Spruce]

Whilst Webasto say they have a 9.1 or a 5kw heater Crapinon, doesn't mean that the heater actually produces that in hot water. A lot of the heat goes out of the exhaust and heat losses elsewhere for example.

It was a number of years ago when I did the test, but it took 2.6kw of energy (according to the science formula) to raise that water temperature from 5 degrees to 35 degrees at 1.5LPM flow. I have to conclude that if the spec of 5kv is correct then where did the rest of the energy go? It had to have been lost in the internal water circuit, from the heat exchangers, through the exhaust (the exhaust gets really hot) or just generally wasted.

I don't know what the efficiency of a gas water heater is but the one my mate bought is rated at 16kw. He has one of these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FASTAR-Tankless-Propane-Gas-LPG-Instant-On-Demand-8L-min-Hot-Water-Heater-/351378290157?hash=item51cfc735ed:g:vF8AAOSwDNdVn2h6

So even if the unit only has an efficiency of 40%, you as a single operator already have more than 3.5 times the available heat that a diesel heater does. Its also instant heat the exact moment you ask for it. The exhaust vent doesn't seem to get that hot, especially as the unit works very well with the summer setting in winter. (In the summer setting only half the burner is working.)

For a single owner/operator, gas is the easiest and cheapest solution. The worst part with installing a heater is cutting a 127mm hole in the roof of your van for the flue.

..... and if you strictly follow the letter of the law, the gas must be switched off at the gas bottle before moving the van, even if its just for a short distance. With diesel you don't have to.

[NWH]

I've tested the temp on mine with a hand held gauge and he majority of the time it runs at 55 degrees it powers down but quickly returns to this temp

[Smurf]

Whilst Webasto say they have a 9.1 or a 5kw heater Crapinon, doesn't mean that the heater actually produces that in hot water. A lot of the heat goes out of the exhaust and heat losses elsewhere for example.

It was a number of years ago when I did the test, but it took 2.6kw of energy (according to the science formula) to raise that water temperature from 5 degrees to 35 degrees at 1.5LPM flow. I have to conclude that if the spec of 5kv is correct then where did the rest of the energy go? It had to have been lost in the internal water circuit, from the heat exchangers, through the exhaust (the exhaust gets really hot) or just generally wasted.

I don't know what the efficiency of a gas water heater is but the one my mate bought is rated at 16kw. He has one of these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FASTAR-Tankless-Propane-Gas-LPG-Instant-On-Demand-8L-min-Hot-Water-Heater-/351378290157?hash=item51cfc735ed:g:vF8AAOSwDNdVn2h6

So even if the unit only has an efficiency of 40%, you as a single operator already have more than 3.5 times the available heat that a diesel heater does. Its also instant heat the exact moment you ask for it. The exhaust vent doesn't seem to get that hot, especially as the unit works very well with the summer setting in winter. (In the summer setting only half the burner is working.)

For a single owner/operator, gas is the easiest and cheapest solution. The worst part with installing a heater is cutting a 127mm hole in the roof of your van for the flue.

..... and if you strictly follow the letter of the law, the gas must be switched off at the gas bottle before moving the van, even if its just for a short distance. With diesel you don't have to.

Spruce I have the same lpg heater and I'm sure I read somewhere it has an efficiency rating of 90 ish percent

[Spruce]

Whilst Webasto say they have a 9.1 or a 5kw heater Crapinon, doesn't mean that the heater actually produces that in hot water. A lot of the heat goes out of the exhaust and heat losses elsewhere for example.

It was a number of years ago when I did the test, but it took 2.6kw of energy (according to the science formula) to raise that water temperature from 5 degrees to 35 degrees at 1.5LPM flow. I have to conclude that if the spec of 5kv is correct then where did the rest of the energy go? It had to have been lost in the internal water circuit, from the heat exchangers, through the exhaust (the exhaust gets really hot) or just generally wasted.

I don't know what the efficiency of a gas water heater is but the one my mate bought is rated at 16kw. He has one of these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FASTAR-Tankless-Propane-Gas-LPG-Instant-On-Demand-8L-min-Hot-Water-Heater-/351378290157?hash=item51cfc735ed:g:vF8AAOSwDNdVn2h6

So even if the unit only has an efficiency of 40%, you as a single operator already have more than 3.5 times the available heat that a diesel heater does. Its also instant heat the exact moment you ask for it. The exhaust vent doesn't seem to get that hot, especially as the unit works very well with the summer setting in winter. (In the summer setting only half the burner is working.)

For a single owner/operator, gas is the easiest and cheapest solution. The worst part with installing a heater is cutting a 127mm hole in the roof of your van for the flue.

..... and if you strictly follow the letter of the law, the gas must be switched off at the gas bottle before moving the van, even if its just for a short distance. With diesel you don't have to.

Spruce I have the same lpg heater and I'm sure I read somewhere it has an efficiency rating of 90 ish percent

Interesting  I have never seen an efficiency rating anywhere for Webasto units.

[windowswashed]

60 degrees with a diesel heater

[Dave Willis]

I've never drained my Fogwash down in the last three years.

[Smurf]

I've never drained my Fogwash down in the last three years.

I take it the back of your van is frost protected somehow then as all these type of water heaters are prone to frost damage below sub zero temps?