[lippy]

IS WFP JUST A FAD AND A WASTE OF MONEY

[gaza]

ITS COMING TO A PLACE NEAR YOU SHORTLY,wake up smell the coffee,look at all those new buildings shooting up 3 high picked up 3 new building sites in as many months. youve got to in it to win it
gaza

[brett walker]

Hope not

just sold my traditional round changed a lot over to wfp

bought a round thats already wfp

sold 2 pairs of my ladders

invested a lot of money and time

and spend half my time on this site so if it all goes pear shape i'll be going to squeaky for a job

can anyone reassure me

worried Brett.

[gaza]

brett get to bed,how many more times?
half your work load and make the same money
what you worried about?

  gaza
theres always Lenton abbey to buy off me

[spotless2000]

Brett

just sold my traditional round

That didn't take you long!

Maybe you should start a new business - building up rounds and selling them on!

At least now you can concentrate on building your WFP round and not worry about looking after the old round and worrying if you're ever going to get a buyer.

Hope you got what you wanted for it.

Onwards & Upwards! (without ladders)

Steve

[Archy136]

No. Next question..

[Sir Squeaky]

Yes. Next question.

[Morph]

Are clean windows important?

[callum macleod]

Once you've tried it you'll never go back!! I begrudge going up my ladder for anything!!

IS WFP JUST A FAD AND A WASTE OF MONEY

[Grafters Cleaning Services]

IS WFP JUST A FAD AND A WASTE OF MONEY

the days of the flatcap boys on push bikes carrying an a frame ladder are well into the past

we now live in a society of modern technology so open your eyes and move on from and out of the caves

[John Conroy]

Its a changing industry, in any industry if you don’t move with the times you get left behind

WFP is the future of window cleaning

 

[Jeff Brimble]

Jay, not so long ago I helped a guy from Coventry build a WFP system into his  push bike - he couldnt drive.

[windows_chepstow]

WFP isn't a waste of money.  I've never heard of anyone transferring to WFP, then going back to ladders.

However, there is a local WFP guy who lives near me who has had some 'doubts' about it; but he seems to have got the knack and embraced the technology.

I find I'm taking on jobs that I would've refused pre-WFP.  This morning I cleaned a large farmhouse, with veluxes and dormers in the attic and a large Georgian windowed conservatory (including roof; every month).

That job would've been rotten to do traditional; extremely hard work and quite a few awkward windows would've had to have been missed.

But it's a breeze with a WFP and it pays an excellent hourly rate.

[matt]

what is a waste of money with WFP is when people go and buy a 4 K system when they could build something the same for a 1/4 of the price and it would take then a few hours to order the bits and a weekend to put it togther

[steve k]

matt...agree totally...what the manufacturers seem to use as a unique selling point is "after sales service"...you can get that here for free

By the way...I am only able to have this opinion after buying a system and then dismantling the van based RO to set up as a static system in my shed. I then realised how easy and uncomplicated the set up is...looks almost scientific in the van...I now know how simple it really is!

[Paul Coleman]

IS WFP JUST A FAD AND A WASTE OF MONEY

Yeah it's rubbish.  That job I used to do in 3 and a half hours now takes 2 hours 10 minutes.  Another one that was 2 hours 5 minutes is now one hour and 10 minutes - both of them without my feet leaving the ground (the times for the first cleans with WFP were rather longer but that's only once).  In all honesty though, the smaller jobs have less time advantage but I intend to adjust my round to the equipment I use in time.  The only reason I have not already made the big leap into getting new, larger work is due to the probability of a drought order in the area.  I need to leave the option of ladders (whether legal or not) open to me as reverting to ladders is better than no income at all.

[dustycorner]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of switching to wfp and i definately hope this is the future. I hope that within the next 5 to 10 years wfp is the recognised method for window cleaners because in my view it will do the folowing

1. Make our jobs safer
2. With increased customer awareness of HSE regulations they more likely to use a wc using wfp.
3. If point 2 is correct then it surely follows it will make it harder for the cowboys who appear in springtime with a ladder, rag and sponge "do your windows for a couple quid missus" brigade.
4. Also i think it will help with cost i.e. insurance and hopefully get better priced work.

If all the reports are true that wfp can increase productivity then surely thats good, personally i would want the maximum income from minimum timespan.

Cheers Mark.

ps i'm only on here today cos i can't find my easter egg.

[Grafters Cleaning Services]

Jay, not so long ago I helped a guy from Coventry build a WFP system into his  push bike - he couldnt drive.

well jeff i stand corrected on the push bike bit

i would have loved to seen a pic of it

[Grafters Cleaning Services]

IS WFP JUST A FAD AND A WASTE OF MONEY

Yeah it's rubbish.  That job I used to do in 3 and a half hours now takes 2 hours 10 minutes.  Another one that was 2 hours 5 minutes is now one hour and 10 minutes - both of them without my feet leaving the ground (the times for the first cleans with WFP were rather longer but that's only once).  In all honesty though, the smaller jobs have less time advantage but I intend to adjust my round to the equipment I use in time.  The only reason I have not already made the big leap into getting new, larger work is due to the probability of a drought order in the area.  I need to leave the option of ladders (whether legal or not) open to me as reverting to ladders is better than no income at all.

totally agree with you on this one

i do several rest homes for the council
1 of them used to take 2 of us 3 hours to complete

i can now do the same in 1 hour 45mins using wfp (ON MY OWN)

[windows_chepstow]

ps i'm only on here today cos i can't find my easter egg.

This is why (sorry mate):

[Sir Squeaky]

we now live in a society of modern technology so open your eyes and move on from and out of the caves

So come on then Mr.Grafter(or not now if that's the case).....
How am I going to be "left behind?"

Is my business going to fold because I do the job properly?

Is it essential to spend hours a week setting things up and fixing problems?

Is it wrong of me to have small overheads? Will that make me bankrupt? :

Am I in danger of being forced out of the market because I can put my feet up when I get home while you're stressing about DI units and resin pumps(or whatever it is).

I do my work just a quick as you, and that's fact.
...oh, and without spots and streaks.

Perhaps a few people should take these points on board before making such silly statements because they've spent masses of cash to do the same job. :

[Franky2020]

Well said squeaky clean

[callum macleod]

Well i look at it from this point of view window cleaning is a means to earn a decent amount of cash in a short period of time !! by ladder or pole though i use pole mostly purely because i want to be sure i am 100% safe not much good to anyone injured or worse as i am sure you will agree so why their is always this competion as which is best is beyond me i personnally think using a pole is quicker but hey its a free country  : :

[brett walker]

I am wfp for a number of reasons

Rog, squeeky puts some good points accross i have the upmost respect for him as he stands up for what he believes in.

Brett

[brett walker]

Brett

just sold my traditional round

That didn't take you long!

Maybe you should start a new business - building up rounds and selling them on!

At least now you can concentrate on building your WFP round and not worry about looking after the old round and worrying if you're ever going to get a buyer.

Hope you got what you wanted for it.

Onwards & Upwards! (without ladders)

Steve

Hi Steve,

I have built some good rounds up over the years and sold them on im on 4 building sites at the moment and another ones just going up, got a few irons in fires so its onwards and upwards

cheers

Brett

[Paul Coleman]

I am wfp for a number of reasons

Rog, squeeky puts some good points accross i have the upmost respect for him as he stands up for what he believes in.

Brett

I respect his views as well Brett.  I was working all my jobs the traditional way until October 2005.  I had less problems doing it that way as he says, and I do use trad on a few smaller jobs where WFP would be a nightmare.  I have no problem with how others want to work.  I just keep the focus on how I work.  OK there's no harm in giving and receiving a bit of a ribbing but that's just banter.  Generally, I prefer WFP for safety reasons and, on larger jobs with decent access, for time reasons too.

[Archy136]

I make that 22-2 so far.

[AuRavelling79]

Is that Proverbs 22 v 2 Arch 136?

[Paul Coleman]

Well i look at it from this point of view window cleaning is a means to earn a decent amount of cash in a short period of time !! by ladder or pole though i use pole mostly purely because i want to be sure i am 100% safe not much good to anyone injured or worse as i am sure you will agree so why their is always this competion as which is best is beyond me i personnally think using a pole is quicker but hey its a free country  : :

I totally agreed with your post until the last four words  

[Sir Squeaky]

Cheers Brett and Shiner.

I didn't want to get into this sort of rant mode again.
Each to one's own, and I respect your decisions too.
I'm sure you like it, and you ARE safer.


It's just every now and again I read something stupid like "you'll be left behind" or "you're in the dark ages" and it just annoys me.
I don't go making silly comments for no reason.

Sorry, but there's no need for it, and I have to prove that sort of remark innacurate.

Rog.

[Majestic]

I clean using both  WFP and Trditional , WFP is just another tool

[AuRavelling79]

Squeaky - me ole fruit - can I make a suggestion?

I've just got a back-pack from cleantech - why don't you go for one?

Hear me out please....

I went wfp in March 2005 with a trolley from Peter Fogwill and since then I got a tank and hose two months ago and last week I got a back pack.

If you get a backpack you can use it to increase your safety by doing jobs over porch roofs, conservatories, rooflights, going thru houses where even a ladder can't always go and anywhere else you feel unsafe or is simply inaccessible to a ladder.

You will likely live longer and earn more money.

This way you get the best of both worlds - safety, opportunity and simplicity.

You and your family will rest easier knowing that you are not going to use a ladder in dodgy circumstances because you have a choice.

Please mate, do it - Tosh knows all about backpacks and after over a year of wfp I've finally realised that the backpack increases your opportunity on residential like no other piece of kit.

Malc

[Archy136]

Not this time Malc. But I do think ladders went out with Noahs Arc!

[The Fox]

All this Trad verses WFP is a load of c---

WFP has giving the customers a choice of which way they want there windows cleaned.
Some are happy with it some are not and some just don’t care.

I have lost customers because I use WFP but I have also gained because of it. You just build a round to suit the way you work.

Window cleaners also have a choice, climb ladders or keep your feet on the ground which ever suits you best.

Both methods have pro’s and con’s for using them. It is up to the individual to make that choice.

[Sir Squeaky]

Squeaky - me ole fruit - can I make a suggestion?

I've just got a back-pack from cleantech - why don't you go for one?

Hear me out please....

I went wfp in March 2005 with a trolley from Peter Fogwill and since then I got a tank and hose two months ago and last week I got a back pack.

If you get a backpack you can use it to increase your safety by doing jobs over porch roofs, conservatories, rooflights, going thru houses where even a ladder can't always go and anywhere else you feel unsafe or is simply inaccessible to a ladder.

You will likely live longer and earn more money.

This way you get the best of both worlds - safety, opportunity and simplicity.

You and your family will rest easier knowing that you are not going to use a ladder in dodgy circumstances because you have a choice.

Please mate, do it - Tosh knows all about backpacks and after over a year of wfp I've finally realised that the backpack increases your opportunity on residential like no other piece of kit.

Malc

I know what you're saying Malc, but I can't simply just buy a backpack.
What would I fill it with?
I'd still have all the bother of wfp systems.

Besides, I don't do anything over first floor now, and nothing awkward.
I've cut them out.

Why will I earn more money?
I'll spend more!

[dustycorner]

Very very funny Tosh lol

Cheers Mark.

[AuRavelling79]

I know what you're saying Malc, but I can't simply just buy a backpack.
What would I fill it with?
I'd still have all the bother of wfp systems.

Besides, I don't do anything over first floor now, and nothing awkward.
I've cut them out.

Why will I earn more money?
I'll spend more!

Because you can do work you cannot reach now - awkward windows - third floor etc. and if you only use a small amount of pure water you could produce it from resin (cuz chepstow is a relatively soft water area or even buy it from Tosh or Ian  - cheap cheap!) and cost it in to all those new better paying jobs you no longer have to turn down.

Don't chuck your ladders if you don't want to; just see - a backpack will open opportunities for you - not reduce them.

[craig jwc]

I had a phone call last month to price on a job as their window cleaner won't do their windows anymore as it takes too long with ladders was unreliable and won't do the frames.

He was charging them £12 per house and took him around 5 hours to do (6 Houses - they are fairly big)

I quoted them £20 per house & one at £25, and it took me just over 3 hours today to do them.

I've just picked up some more work from a Housing Association because the results the wfp give.

WFP is definately NOT a waste of money.

It's another tool for us to use which gives good results if used correctly and for me a far SAFER way to work.

Craig

[janitaz]

i would like to ask you a question, i am female window cleaner 4ft 10 and i have trouble reaching some of the top windows ,  i was interested in the wfp system , is there any body in the Newbury Area who would be willing to show me how it works etc. I have a lot of work but i do find ladder work very tiring now. can any one help me PLEASE!!!!!!! :

[jinky230]

guys I think you have missed the picture where squeeky is concerned

going by his point of views he has ironed out all the hassle jobs and has nice easy jobs that in theory done traditional is probably just as quick.

wfp is good for height or roofs or inaccess areas, which squeeky is not interested in as he has enough customers to do him,and has filtered the bad from the easy  over the years to give him a nice easy customer base.Why should he go into wfp hes not interested in hassle work.Go on squeeky you will
be around for years, because most of your work would probably pass health and safety anyway.For the rest of us who want to increase our workload we may need to chase the harder and higher work and would need wfp,this is ok as well.
come on Guys you cant kick a guy for keeping life simple

I have been doing window cleaning for 30 years i roughly do 6 semi houses  an hour I also use wfp and I dont find it any quicker on domestic, only safer in some areas but a lot quicker on commercial .

The wfp is quicker to start on domestic with but over the day when you take into consideration topping up with containers etc hassle of windows over roofs and you need to change poles it starts to balance  out

hope i have got it right or I will be shot down

jinky

[Allways Cleaning]

nope think that is a fair assumption.

[jinky230]

thanks for the support paul

however squeeky might find himself going over when the media brings to the publics notice that they can be sued if their window cleaner is not carrying the job out in a safe manner, and this is when it will hit traditional window cleaners
but hay in 5 years from now squeeky will probably pick up a backpack for about £50 and will still be in business

jinky

[jinky230]

guys just another thought

what if you tell customers that it is unsafe to go up ladders are you restricting your earning potential when the same customer asks for a quote for cleaning internal gutters or painting the outside of their house or is wfp only safe for when you go up to window height

debates acceptable

jinky

[Andrew McCann]

Jinky

It all depends on the nature of the job to be done so you are not restricting your earning potential. One point.. properly used it is not unsafe to go up ladders.

The WAHR states that working at height should be avoided wherever possible. Ladders may be used but only when all other means have been ruled out. Painting the outside of a house for instance will probably mean that ladders will have to be used, the same will apply to inside gutter cleaning etc. If ladders are to be used a risk assesment should be done along with a method statement. Now.. this does apply to houses and not just commercial. A householder is regarded as a "duty holder" in the same way as any business. Watch this space for the inevitable claim through one of those ambulance chasing companies that advertise the no win-no fee damages claims. It will happen.

I admire Squeaky for defending his corner so well. I am sure he is a real pro and knows his stuff very well. I think that he has taken a decision on the basis of the nature of his workload and he obviously is very concerned about the quality of his work. Good luck to him I say. It isnt the likes of him that will end the use of ladders.. it's the black economy guys that WILL sue and make headlines. For instance I know a guy who works with 2 lads "on the side" I have seen them do very dangerous things. The guy just laughs this off but how many are there like him around? Many i think. It will only take one or two of the type of lads that work for him to sue the householder to get ladder use for window cleaning even more restricted. Then the likes of Squeaky will have to re-assess the whole thing.

Andrew

[Sir Squeaky]

Jinky,(and Andrew too) you've got it spot on.
Finally someone who understands....

If I'm forced to stop using ladders then I've got no choice, but I'm happy enough until then.
Saying that, I may well start a different business altogether.

I don't really want the bother of water systems, and I'd never hear the end of it on here if I did!

Rog.

[Paul Coleman]

guys I think you have missed the picture where squeeky is concerned

going by his point of views he has ironed out all the hassle jobs and has nice easy jobs that in theory done traditional is probably just as quick.

wfp is good for height or roofs or inaccess areas, which squeeky is not interested in as he has enough customers to do him,and has filtered the bad from the easy  over the years to give him a nice easy customer base.Why should he go into wfp hes not interested in hassle work.Go on squeeky you will
be around for years, because most of your work would probably pass health and safety anyway.For the rest of us who want to increase our workload we may need to chase the harder and higher work and would need wfp,this is ok as well.
come on Guys you cant kick a guy for keeping life simple

I have been doing window cleaning for 30 years i roughly do 6 semi houses  an hour I also use wfp and I dont find it any quicker on domestic, only safer in some areas but a lot quicker on commercial .

The wfp is quicker to start on domestic with but over the day when you take into consideration topping up with containers etc hassle of windows over roofs and you need to change poles it starts to balance  out

hope i have got it right or I will be shot down

jinky

Good point Jinky.  I was about to replace some work where I needed to tile walk until WFP came along.

[master cleaner]

Jinky,(and Andrew too) you've got it spot on.
Finally someone who understands....

If I'm forced to stop using ladders then I've got no choice, but I'm happy enough until then.
Saying that, I may well start a different business altogether.

I don't really want the bother of water systems, and I'd never hear the end of it on here if I did!

Rog.

hi rog
you would here the last of it we would all help you to set up

i started window cleaning 11ago
 i bought my wfp 6 months ago 2 weeks after i bought the wfp i broke my toe which ment i couldnt go up a ladder anyway so if it wasnt for the wfp i would have been off work for a month as it was i only had 1 day off.

then this week we were working in near gale force winds (no rain) normally if i was using ladders i would have gone home but instead i stayed there and earned £250 which last year at this time i wouldnt

you are obviously good at what you do trad but dont shut out the option of doing the same job with wfp
i am so glad that i changed over and this isnt just because of the money i have spent it is the honest truth .

can i ask rog , have you used a wfp maybe off one of your mates tosh ian ,just for an hour to see what all the fuss is about

anyway rog i wish you all the best in whatever you decide , but just remember that we are only trying to direct you to wfp ( rightly or wrongly) because we care

thanx

gary

[jinky230]

some good replys guys like andrew mc cann = its spot on

and it is only thru debate of pros and cons that determines if there is a place for any new method

I personnally mix both using common sense when I need to keep myself safe


I have fell of 3 times in 5 years 1st pins in leg off work 2 months
second right arm  and thrid still nursing broken sholder after fall in nov all from roofs all my fals came in nov/dec when the tiles that do not get sunlight  create a moss coating very slippy , now everyone is fitting decking the worse ever for window cleaners This looks like I am totally unsafe, but I can assure you we take every care for safety, we dont jump fences or gates  we use fits for roof work i have 30 years experience and still  manage to have 3 falls in 5 years

I dont know if wfp will replace traditional window cleaning, but we are a lot safer using this method for dangerous areas and it is this reason that no window cleaner can be without this equipment in their kit

your jinky