[Dave Willis]

This one's doing my head in! Second controller with the same problem. Working away no trouble for hours, sometimes days on end when suddenly the water stops. Leave the valve fully open and stomp back to the van with taurettes syndrone. Get there and the red pressure switch light is on? Turn the power supply off switch it back on - still there
Pull the live connector off plug it back in and away we go! Work for a while then water turns off and so on.
I used to think it was a fuse/holder playing up - pull the fuse out, inspect it turn it over put it back in and away we go.
New fuse holder fitted Saturday so it can't be that, new controller so it shouldn't be that, new connectors, new pump, clean filter, re callibrated. Vent clear, water supply open. No sign of air locks. When it's in this mode I can completely disconnect the hose real and the pump won't start up. Is the flow dial too high?

Any ideas before the lump hammer comes out for the last time?

[Nathanael Jones]

Flow controllers are useful bits of kit which have been ruined by over complicating them!

Dead end detection was the worst thing ever invented - and is the source of most problems with these units. Whats your e-mail Dave & I'll send you a link on how to DIY one easy with bits off ebay?

[groundhog]

I never use them, too many problems and an unnecessary expense!

[Mick Kent]

They cut out and run poo when your battery is low or knackared i find.
I wouldnt be without a controller. I used to use just a pump but used far too much water and had to replace pressure switches every other month which did my head in.
I use the simple varistream controllers.

[groundhog]

Really Mick? I've been using mine without a controller for over 8years, and I have only ever once changed a pressure switch!

[Tom White]

Flow controllers are useful bits of kit which have been ruined by over complicating them!

Dead end detection was the worst thing ever invented - and is the source of most problems with these units. Whats your e-mail Dave & I'll send you a link on how to DIY one easy with bits off ebay?

Can you send me the link too, Nathanael?

k.simpkin@yahoo.co.uk

Or you could just stick the link up here.

[Nathanael Jones]

Or you could just stick the link up here.

The info is on another forum & I'd get sent to the naughty corner if I post it here! 

E-mail on the way,..

[Lee GLS]

It's the hot weather and it's getting to hot, take the front cover off and it will work fine, mine has been doing the same. Disconnecting the power reset it and will work again. Or try to reposition it out of the sunlight. 

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

I still have a flow controller plugged in to throttle the pump, however for dead end detection I now just use the pressure switch. I've turned the dead end detection up to max on the controller and turned the pressure switch down on the pump. The result is instant water all the time.

Simon.

[Dave Willis]

I think I might have found the problem. It happened again this afternoon so I started pulling wires apart to try and isolate the fault. The blue wire from the controller (as supplied) seems to have been missed by the guy with the crimpers. Shoved the wire back in and everything fired back up again. There again it could be just powering back up and resetting itself. See what happens tomorrow.

[Paul Coleman]

I wouldn't say that electronic flow controllers are a waste of money; they can be useful in certain circumstances.  I've never bothered with one myself though as I have a return to tank pipe that can be adjusted.  Such controllers are just another thing that can go wrong - but they are helpful in situations where the flow needs to be carefully regulated.  I would probably only use one if I had a tank size in a lighter van that meant me needing to use less water.  As it is, I'm a single operator with a van payload that just about allows an 800 litre tank.  I prefer to work with a higher flow where practical as too low a flow rate can slow me down a bit.

[groundhog]

Exactly! Why would you waste money on a piece of equipment which slows you down?

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Exactly! Why would you waste money on a piece of equipment which slows you down?

This is an argument which just constantly repeats itself on this forum. If you don't understand how controllers work, what they do & the reasons for that- then carry on working in the dark ages!!

BOTH the above comments are ridiculous for blatantly obvious reasons!

[richard groves]

Flow controllers are useful bits of kit which have been ruined by over complicating them!

I agree,
I have an original mk1 eco flow controller from Crow-electro ( now known as Spring ). Its just a simple analogue dial with an led and thats all ! simply does all that I wanted it for - contol the speed of the pump. Seems the more advanced something becomes the more there is to go wrong.
Is there a similar product still available from any supplier now ?

[Ian Sheppard]

It is unfortunate Dave  that your issues would appear to have been caused simply by someone not crimping a cable correctly during the manufacture process, As you can imagine with each control using at least 4 crimps the workshop team are getting through 10,s of 1000,s of crimps. I will bring this to the attention of the production team.

We use the PS message for two things
1. Pump pressure Switch activation
2. Checking the pump is in circuit.

Having eliminated any possible high pressure issue, Next step is to check the cables and connectors.
http://www.springltd.co/node/48

The controller carries out an electrical test to see if the pump is in circuit if the control can not detect the pump We use PS as a default message.

Second.
In answer to the question and comments all the developments from V1 to the current V11 are market driven, Cleaners, system builders and distributors feed back to us what they like and don,t The Low battery cut off over ride feature on the V11 is a direct consequence of this feed back.
Spring are an electronics design and build company over the 10 year cycle with have gained a great deal of insight into what the controls need to do, This insight has quickened greatly through my direct contact with guys on the ground, I spend large amounts of time just listening and provide advise as needed, I am very grateful to all who contribute to this process no matter their point of view.

So are controls a waste of money?
My personal feeling is for a pump delivery system to work as efficiently as possible electronically controlling the pump is the way to go.
Slowing the pump will not massively impact on flow to the brush. This is because of pressure dynamics with in the system. Slowing the pump and controlling the flow is just one aspect of the controller.

What the control will do is get the pump to produce only the water flow required at the brush. It also reduces heat build up in the pump, reduces wear on the pump motor, In  turn this means you use less current. A control helps you manage your resource.
Personally I am not convinced running a pump flat out pushing max water and draw max current, putting the whole system under high pressure just to restrict the flow with a manual tap is efficient.
Over Three years I have run all kinds of tests and comparisons with/without a control and in all cases with a control is better.
That said I respect that people have to work in a way that best suits them, It is then our job as a manufacturer to produce what the market wants.

Fair play to Gordon still having a V1 going strong, This shows the resilience of the kit, The V11 Analogue was aimed to fill this slot if people feel it is to complex well maybe we should re visit it.

This may surprise people but I would rather some one had any electronic controller rather than no controller. Having a control even the most basic ones will make your system more efficient.

To my way of thinking a controller is not a waste of money but a valuable asset that adds value to your system. The market provides a very wide range of controls and depending on how much function you want there is something to suit.
This is a link to a number of articles on our web site, They are written with the view that any control is better than no control. http://www.springltd.co/node/3

[J.D]

I'd highly recommend the sureclean one that Arthur sells. It works flawlessly and never gives problems, ever! I work continually at the highest flow rate setting day in day out and its never so much as burned a fuse!

[Ian Sheppard]

Thank you Nat for you comments. It brings up an interesting question

As My earlier post everything we do is based on engineering principles and is market driven. De 1st appeared on the V3, It came about because having controlled the pump speed, We then found that relying simply on the pump pressure switch to stop the pump when flow was turned off lead to.
. High system pressure
. Pump pressure switch under high conductive load
. Hose and connectors under high strain
. PS was burning out + connectors blowing

In some cases as the following comparison show Pressure can get very high http://www.thehub360.com/spring-pressure-comparison.html

Following Calibration DE stops the pump earlier meaning there is less current loaded across the pump PS and motor, Less pressure in the system. Less strain on the connectors.

We then have a Micro DE retest as the control needs to know when flow has been restored, The Control test every 3 seconds. (This is the blip you may here from the pump) while flow is off. While in DE the system is not pressurising at all. It simply sits there waiting.
On restoring flow the most time for the pump to restart is 3 seconds, In reality due to there being some pressure in system it is often much less.

Over three years I have found most DE issues are not caused by the control, Rather it is other factors. In one case It was traced to a jammed non return valve on a reel. Often it is as simple as a blocked pump filter.

The control is designed to provide a range of information to the user, often the control is pointing to a fault rather than being the cause. We work hard to make the control work with a wide range of systems. and conditions yet. The majority of the time you should only need to turn it on and work.


For the times it does not we provide support, repairs and a warranty. Supporting the controls is important and something we work hard at.

You can choose to set Cal High and rely on the pressure switch the control will operate happily, In my opinion its not ideal

[Mal@Loughrea]

Quote from: Nathanael Jones on Yesterday at 01:19:00 pm

Flow controllers are useful bits of kit which have been ruined by over complicating them!

Dead end detection was the worst thing ever invented - and is the source of most problems with these units. Whats your e-mail Dave & I'll send you a link on how to DIY one easy with bits off ebay?

I too would love the link Nathanael! mal@loughreacleaning.ie

Thanks in anticipation 

[Dave Willis]

It is unfortunate Dave  that your issues would appear to have been caused simply by someone not crimping a cable correctly during the manufacture process, As you can imagine with each control using at least 4 crimps the workshop team are getting through 10,s of 1000,s of crimps. I will bring this to the attention of the production team.

We use the PS message for two things
1. Pump pressure Switch activation
2. Checking the pump is in circuit.

Having eliminated any possible high pressure issue, Next step is to check the cables and connectors.
http://www.springltd.co/node/48

The controller carries out an electrical test to see if the pump is in circuit if the control can not detect the pump We use PS as a default message.

Second.
In answer to the question and comments all the developments from V1 to the current V11 are market driven, Cleaners, system builders and distributors feed back to us what they like and don,t The Low battery cut off over ride feature on the V11 is a direct consequence of this feed back.
Spring are an electronics design and build company over the 10 year cycle with have gained a great deal of insight into what the controls need to do, This insight has quickened greatly through my direct contact with guys on the ground, I spend large amounts of time just listening and provide advise as needed, I am very grateful to all who contribute to this process no matter their point of view.

So are controls a waste of money?
My personal feeling is for a pump delivery system to work as efficiently as possible electronically controlling the pump is the way to go.
Slowing the pump will not massively impact on flow to the brush. This is because of pressure dynamics with in the system. Slowing the pump and controlling the flow is just one aspect of the controller.

What the control will do is get the pump to produce only the water flow required at the brush. It also reduces heat build up in the pump, reduces wear on the pump motor, In  turn this means you use less current. A control helps you manage your resource.
Personally I am not convinced running a pump flat out pushing max water and draw max current, putting the whole system under high pressure just to restrict the flow with a manual tap is efficient.
Over Three years I have run all kinds of tests and comparisons with/without a control and in all cases with a control is better.
That said I respect that people have to work in a way that best suits them, It is then our job as a manufacturer to produce what the market wants.

Fair play to Gordon still having a V1 going strong, This shows the resilience of the kit, The V11 Analogue was aimed to fill this slot if people feel it is to complex well maybe we should re visit it.

This may surprise people but I would rather some one had any electronic controller rather than no controller. Having a control even the most basic ones will make your system more efficient.

To my way of thinking a controller is not a waste of money but a valuable asset that adds value to your system. The market provides a very wide range of controls and depending on how much function you want there is something to suit.
This is a link to a number of articles on our web site, They are written with the view that any control is better than no control. http://www.springltd.co/node/3

Thanks Ian - that makes sense. It's unfortunate that the same light gives two totally different warnings. Often the red light would come on with the valve shut. I automatically assumed the pressure switch was coming into play and would back the dead end down then I'd find the pump would cycle as there wasn't enough pressure. Could be just that the circuit was broken now and again I suppose. I've had no issues today.
I did put the post up after a very hot frustrating day.
I might put one up about how crap hose is - had another hot crummy day yanking that around today! 

[Nathanael Jones]

Quote from: Nathanael Jones on Yesterday at 01:19:00 pm

Flow controllers are useful bits of kit which have been ruined by over complicating them!

Dead end detection was the worst thing ever invented - and is the source of most problems with these units. Whats your e-mail Dave & I'll send you a link on how to DIY one easy with bits off ebay?

I too would love the link Nathanael! mal@loughreacleaning.ie

Thanks in anticipation 

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