[Ronnie Bryce]

The thing that never ceases to amaze me on this forum isn't the lack of intelligence, it is after all a forum for windowcleaners, it is the total inability to tolerate the knowledge or opinion of others in the face of overwhelming logic and evidence.

To be fair 8 weekly, the evidence is not overwhelming. Those who say air also have a valid point and it's probably a combination of both Vin's leaching and Winpros air which would be nearer the truth.
No one on here is going to cross check all that evidence, we don't care enough. So you are as guilty of intolerance as the next person.

[Perfect Windows]

The thing that never ceases to amaze me on this forum isn't the lack of intelligence, it is after all a forum for windowcleaners, it is the total inability to tolerate the knowledge or opinion of others in the face of overwhelming logic and evidence.

To be fair 8 weekly, the evidence is not overwhelming. Those who say air also have a valid point and it's probably a combination of both Vin's leaching and Winpros air which would be nearer the truth.
No one on here is going to cross check all the evidence, we don't care enough. So you are as guilty of intolerance as the next person.

I have to disagree ref WinPro's "air".  He's not saying it's "air".  He's saying it's the O of H₂O, which is literally, in the correct usage of that word, impossible.

I also agree that mine's "likely" rather than definite.

Vin

[Alex Wingrove]

AFAIK it's caused by chemicals leaching from the pipe and acting as a detergent.  So they are soap bubbles.

New hoses suffer it more.  Pipes not used but full of water for a long time (e.g. overnight) have time for the chemicals to leach out.

I just use the brush to do the frames for the first minute until it's run through then go back and do the glass.

Vin

I agree with this

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

We have someone on this thread who thinks that, without a massive energy input, we are able to split oxygen out of water.  If you're right, by the way, you've solved the world's energy problems for ever.  Just run water through a hose so it splits into hydrogen and oxygen.  Then you have limitless fuel.

We have someone else who just gainsays what I've suggested.  No reason, I'm just daft.  

So, here's the background for WinPro and Ronnie.  A hose will contain phthalates.  I know it's a long word, but stick with me.  It's something that makes plastics flexible and long-lasting.  They leach out of the plastic they are used in over time (that's why the lighter ones are being phased out of kids' toys).  Oddly enough, one of their properties is that they are often surfactants.  Stick with me, another long word you might not understand, but have a look at the side of a bottle of detergent; it'll mention them.  They are the thing that makes foamy things foam.

So, we have a chemical inside the wall of hoses that is known to leach out of them and which also acts as a detergent.

We have window cleaners who have pure water (good solvent) in plastic hoses that foams if it's been left in there a day or two.

So, which is more likely to be a good explanation?

We've found a way to split the bond between hydrogen and oxygen without putting in enough energy
The person who just shouts I don't understand bampot
The chemicals found in plastics that have a property that would result in water foaming

Just remembered why I leave this place for long periods.

Vin

P.S. Winproclean, good luck with getting the O out of H₂O.  This time next year, Winpro, you'll be a millionaire and you'll have changed your name to Rodney.

We also have someone who CANNOT tolerate the thought of being wrong!

It's air for heaven's sake, get a grip you complete & utter plonker!

 You must be one of the most boring, annoying, tedious, total & utter twits I've ever come across- a complete
& utter moron of monolithic proportions!!

[Perfect Windows]

We also have someone who CANNOT tolerate the thought of being wrong!

It air for heaven's sake, get a grip you complete & utter plonker!

 You must be one of the most boring, annoying, tedious, total & utter twits I've ever come across- a complete
& utter moron of monolithic proportions!!

And in return we get people who change their story.  You didn't say it was "air", you said it was

... the O part of H2O.

Which is a tad different, old boy. O₂ - magically separated from water or not - does not equal "air"

Also interesting that, at no point have I suggested you're stupid or foolish.  I've pointed out the fallacies in what you've said but you've now chosen an ad hominem* attack.  I wither before your logic.

You're extremely angry, aren't you, and you're beginning to look a little foolish (as is your habit when you argue with me - you're so keen to attack that you forget that being factually accurate might help your credibility).  So I'll leave you alone; I really don't enjoy shooting fish in barrels.  Till the next time you try to make out that I'm incorrect with some made up logic, adieu.  It's been emotional.

Vin





*Look it up - I had to when I first read it.

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

We also have someone who CANNOT tolerate the thought of being wrong!

It air for heaven's sake, get a grip you complete & utter plonker!

 You must be one of the most boring, annoying, tedious, total & utter twits I've ever come across- a complete
& utter moron of monolithic proportions!!

And in return we get people who change their story.  You didn't say it was "air", you said it was

... the O part of H2O.

Which is a tad different, old boy. O₂ - magically separated from water or not - does not equal "air"

Also interesting that, at no point have I suggested you're stupid or foolish.  I've pointed out the fallacies in what you've said but you've now chosen an ad hominem* attack.  I wither before your logic.

You're extremely angry, aren't you, and you're beginning to look a little foolish (as is your habit when you argue with me - you're so keen to attack that you forget that being factually accurate might help your credibility).  So I'll leave you alone; I really don't enjoy shooting fish in barrels.  Till the next time you try to make out that I'm incorrect with some made up logic, adieu.  It's been emotional.

Vin





*Look it up - I had to when I first read it.

I revert to the last paragraph in reply #23.

[Alex Wingrove]

Lol

You're arguing on the internet

[oldman]

AFAIK it's caused by chemicals leaching from the pipe and acting as a detergent.  So they are soap bubbles.

New hoses suffer it more.  Pipes not used but full of water for a long time (e.g. overnight) have time for the chemicals to leach out.

I just use the brush to do the frames for the first minute until it's run through then go back and do the glass.

Vin

I agree with this too...
I only work 3 or 4 days a week, on continuous days of work I don't have the problem....only when purified water has been left in the hose line over days-off is when I notice it happens.

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Something weird happens every morning when I start work.

If anyone watched me clean the first couple of windows of the day they'd swear that I have soap in my water as it looks like soap suds are coming from my brush.

The water is reading 00 and the windows dry clear, and the "soap" clears after a window or two so it's not a problem, just a bit curious as to why it happens.

My guess is air bubbles in the system somewhere.

Anyone else got any other ideas?

Just to make this clear as I'm absolutely bemused that so called intelligent posters are suggesting that it's some kind of chemical release from inner hose walls etc

IT IS AIR INGRESS WITHIN THE SYSTEM- HOSE, POLE HOSE, PUMP, CONNECTORS, CONNECTING PIPES ETC ETC!! AND MOST PROBABLY TINY AIR BUBBLES WITHIN THE WATER AS IT WAS FILLED THE NIGHT BEFORE!!!

That's why it doesn't last that long either as it's soon washed out with the flow. If it lasts longer then you probably have a more severe source of air ingress.

[gary999]

loose connector a seal slightly moving and the pump is drawing
air in with the water through the system.

[Perfect Windows]

Decided to check the theory with an experiment.  There are probably flaws in the experiment but it's the best I could muster in five minutes of thinking.  So, here's a couple of pics of a clean bottle half filled with the water that's been in my hose since Thursday midday.

Hard to show terribly clearly in pic one but the water looked cloudy; not something I'd be too happy to clean with.  

It looked less cloudy than it appears in the photo; just a slight haze.







Then I gave the bottle a shake.







Not definitive (I'm not in a position to analyse the water - all I can see is the effect) but it looks soapy to me.  Not massively so, but it has the appearance of having a detergent/surfactant of some kind in it.  The effect didn't die off after repeated shakings.

All in all, regardless of whether it's just a trace of detergent, I'm just going to carry on doing what I do, so using the first minute's flow for frames then popping back to wash and rinse the glass one the water's flowed through.

Vin

[SeanK]

All you have done is over oxygenate the water.
There is nothing leaching from the hoses or the plastic bottle which is causing the bubbles.
All water contains a certain amount of oxygen so when its placed in a container like a resin vessel
or backpack some of the oxygen gets released and causes the bubbles this will happen more when
the weather is warmer or when the water gets splashed about.
As more cooler water comes through it stops.

 
 

[Don Kee]

http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/18u6er/why_do_tiny_bubbles_form_in_my_tap_water_overnight/

[Perfect Windows]

All you have done is over oxygenate the water.
There is nothing leaching from the hoses or the plastic bottle which is causing the bubbles.
All water contains a certain amount of oxygen so when its placed in a container like a resin vessel
or backpack some of the oxygen gets released and causes the bubbles this will happen more when
the weather is warmer or when the water gets splashed about.
As more cooler water comes through it stops.

It's certainly possible as an explanation.  I considered it, which is why I shook the bottle repeatedly.  The foaming decreased ever so slightly (which I would assume was dissolved oxygen being battered out of the water) but reached a point where it seems that no matter how much I shook it, the amount of foam didn't decline between shakes.  It had the appearance of soap bubbles and lasted a while.

It happens in winter as well, when I'd expect the water in the hose to be cooler than in the tank.  The air theory doesn't explain why it happens much more on new hoses.

Anyway, I feel I've done enough experimentation and discussion now, so I'll leave it to people with alternative theories to do their own experiments if they can be bothered.   Alternatively, they can skip the experiments/evidence and call me an idiot if they prefer.   I'm going out for a walk with the kids.

Vin

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

All you have done is over oxygenate the water.
There is nothing leaching from the hoses or the plastic bottle which is causing the bubbles.
All water contains a certain amount of oxygen so when its placed in a container like a resin vessel
or backpack some of the oxygen gets released and causes the bubbles this will happen more when
the weather is warmer or when the water gets splashed about.
As more cooler water comes through it stops.

 
 

Whey hey, someone with half a brain at last!!

Perfect must be the only person in the world surprised at air bubbles in a bottle of shaken water!!

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

All you have done is over oxygenate the water.
There is nothing leaching from the hoses or the plastic bottle which is causing the bubbles.
All water contains a certain amount of oxygen so when its placed in a container like a resin vessel
or backpack some of the oxygen gets released and causes the bubbles this will happen more when
the weather is warmer or when the water gets splashed about.
As more cooler water comes through it stops.

It's certainly possible as an explanation.  I considered it, which is why I shook the bottle repeatedly.  The foaming decreased ever so slightly (which I would assume was dissolved oxygen being battered out of the water) but reached a point where it seems that no matter how much I shook it, the amount of foam didn't decline between shakes.  It had the appearance of soap bubbles and lasted a while.

It happens in winter as well, when I'd expect the water in the hose to be cooler than in the tank.  The air theory doesn't explain why it happens much more on new hoses.

Anyway, I feel I've done enough experimentation and discussion now, so I'll leave it to people with alternative theories to do their own experiments if they can be bothered.   Alternatively, they can skip the experiments/evidence and call me an idiot if they prefer.   I'm going out for a walk with the kids.

Vin

Translated this means- Ok, I'll stop digging an even deeper hole!!

[Peter Fogwill]

I have found this in the past a few times as well and put it down to there being pressure in the system. 
Heard it was Co2 dissolving in the water, and yes the hot weather affects it more. The water in the tank is fine as its getting plenty air, but its the water under pressure between the brush and the pump and doesnt get any air that causes the problem.  Probably wont get it if the water in the hose is not pressurised, but not sure about that.

Peter
window-tools.com

[andyM]

The Isocyanates used to make PU hose can react with water to form Carbon Dioxide.

[Window Lickers]

[G Griffin]

I don't think I've enjoyed a thread so much since Squeaky's days  .