[AuRavelling79]

Didn't you post on here how you were careful to show your employees how to lift and to be careful how to use backpacks as per the manufacturer's instructions?

Do I recall correctly that you even said not to put a full back pack on your back at all but to use the little sack truck thing provided (the one in your van) or fill it less if your employee was to carry the back pack single handed?

Perhaps the post or thread was deleted by one of the mods because of all the squeaky-baiting it contained?

Anyone else remember any of that?

[wightsurf]

Didn't you post on here how you were careful to show your employees how to lift and to be careful how to use backpacks as per the manufacturer's instructions?

Do I recall correctly that you even said not to put a full back pack on your back at all but to use the little sack truck thing provided (the one in your van) or fill it less if your employee was to carry the back pack single handed?

Perhaps the post or thread was deleted by one of the mods because of all the squeaky-baiting it contained?

Anyone else remember any of that?

Nope 

[KS Cleaning]

Didn't you post on here how you were careful to show your employees how to lift and to be careful how to use backpacks as per the manufacturer's instructions?

Do I recall correctly that you even said not to put a full back pack on your back at all but to use the little sack truck thing provided (the one in your van) or fill it less if your employee was to carry the back pack single handed?

Perhaps the post or thread was deleted by one of the mods because of all the squeaky-baiting it contained?

Anyone else remember any of that?

        We use the WCW backpacks and just carry them by the handle, and as the employee in question had only started using the WFP a few months ago (he used to trad bottoms whilst others did tops WFP) I did actually say to him only to fill the backpack with the amount of water he was comfortable carrying. Also his last day of manual work before his phantom injury, we finished at 2 o clock, there was nothing wrong with him when he went out collecting for me from 5 til 7 30 the same night!
I will be phoning ACAS on Monday to get some advice

[A & J Owen Window Cleaning]

ks I don't think he will persue this matter has he has not informed you of any problems relating to work issues. we all pull muscels its a windy thing. you just say he has the specific training and guidance relating to the job description. as they say its a fast one hes trying to pull. let this be a lesson to you all "don't employ ". they will only shaft ya.

[rosskesava]

The point is also that an employee has to report problems he encounters other wise how can the employer act?

If he said nothing about a back pack doing his back in, then tough luck and I think a tribunal would also agree as an employer can only act when made aware of the problem.

Also, what about about his medical records? Has he been to his doctor? Was there any previous history of back problems that he didn't make his employer aware of when employed to start with? What treatment has he had in relation to his back problem?

There's also a can of worms regarding the employers obligations but my guess is, he'll do nothing about it.

[Mike #1]

So no contact or a suitable excuse FOR 2 WEEKS  . 

He claims he injured himself at work as advised terminate his contract surely HE is in breach of contract for not turning up for work for 2 weeks and not informing you why .

I mean the poor lads injury must have been so bad that he must have been heavily sedated in hospital and incapable of communicating with anyone for 2 weeks . 

If you have managed to get through your work for the past 2 weeks with out to much struggle you might be better off working on your own mate . 

I hope you manage to get something sorted asap good luck mate . Mike

[AuRavelling79]

Write everything down NOW.

The day and time he was supposed to turn up and didn't.
If relevant what happened when you tried to find out why he didn't turn up. (log any attempted phone calls and texts, non-replies and if you went to his place of residence.
The date of eventual contact and exactly what he said/texted.
When/how you fired him.

e.g - and if you have no written contract then verbally tell him.

You did not arrive at work when scheduled on (Date)
Despite numerous attempts to contact you, you did not reply for two weeks/15 days/whatever.
You have given no reason whatsoever for not contacting me.
My business has suffered as I have not been able to call on my customers in a timely fashion and this has resulted in the loss of a substantial amount of money to my cashflow.
Obviously this is gross misconduct and your employment is terminated.

Maybe add:

Any attempt to obtain monies from me under false pretenses will be met by a vigorous defence and a claim for loss of income due to your actions.

Send/take a written copy to his address and note when you "served" it to him.

(but as I've put some heavy stuff in you might be wise to take professional advice first)

[Archer]

Andy,

you will find IT DOES MATTER that he hasn't been given a contract of employment, the employer has a legal responsibility to provide one.

Best thing to do from day 1, is draft up paperwork, date them, both sign, ie: manual handling checklist, PPE, Health & Safety induction record/checklist, Employee safety training record (waterfed pole, working at height, ladders, PPE, displaying warning signs, slip, trips, falls)  etc

Basically to show you have done everything you can to look after yourself, your employee and members of the public.

You all might say its over the top, but it needs to be done.

[bobplum]

its a fickle thing employment law
I had two lads take me too a tribunal, they messed up big time on a maintenance job, walked off on the job on a Wednesday and under law i had to pay there full wages.
it wasn't all bad i got some reduction

what seems like common sense and morally right doesn't interpret in to law  so has advised right everything down because it may be your word against his, unless your other employees can back you up

[C o z y]

Write everything down NOW.

The day and time he was supposed to turn up and didn't.
If relevant what happened when you tried to find out why he didn't turn up. (log any attempted phone calls and texts, non-replies and if you went to his place of residence.
The date of eventual contact and exactly what he said/texted.
When/how you fired him.

e.g - and if you have no written contract then verbally tell him.

You did not arrive at work when scheduled on (Date)
Despite numerous attempts to contact you, you did not reply for two weeks/15 days/whatever.
You have given no reason whatsoever for not contacting me.
My business has suffered as I have not been able to call on my customers in a timely fashion and this has resulted in the loss of a substantial amount of money to my cashflow.
Obviously this is gross misconduct and your employment is terminated.

Maybe add:

Any attempt to obtain monies from me under false pretenses will be met by a vigorous defence and a claim for loss of income due to your actions.

Send/take a written copy to his address and note when you "served" it to him.

(but as I've put some heavy stuff in you might be wise to take professional advice first)

Good advice. Especially the last bit.

[robertphil]

if theres any chance your lad  reads this forum you want to change details of it etc

 i changed my forum name after an employee of mine started claiming compo after crashin my van at 2mph not 20 feet from where i sat eating my lunch . he claimed total paralysis from eyes down .  got nowhere because he didnt even go to see a doctor .

long as you do nothing now,keep schtum ,likely he will sink his own boat .   they exaggerate if its not a genuine case 

[mufcglen]

can i ask guys, if you tok somebody on as a self employed basis do you still have to provide training etc?

[Archer]

Glen,

not sure on that one, but seeing as there are claims all over the place, nothing would surprise me to be honest.

I would ask that question to a legal person, or if anyone on here knows for definate rather than guess, although i would still check

better to protect yourself and your business.

[CleanClear]

can i ask guys, if you tok somebody on as a self employed basis do you still have to provide training etc?

You should ask to see their insurance and you should ensure that you have done all the checks you can . So whilst you may not have a duty to train them, you do have a duty to make sure they know what they are doing. This could come in the form of them providing you with training certificates for training they've undertaken and/or you assessing them.

[Pj]

Employer - Employee relationships...  When they work they ...  work.  But when they don't then they can turn into a nightmare of stress and anxiety these days, mainly for the Employer.  We live in such a Blame/Claim culture.

You can get quite a bit of useful info by looking on HMRC website, also HSE website has proper guidance.

Try to deal with the facts, and don't get over anxious about what will probably never happen.

[chanster00]

ks! i feel your pain! something like this happened to me a while ago Twice! i still don't know the answer but all i say is the guys SCUM!

[brianbarber]

When employing, use a decent payroll company as they know all the rules and regs regarding dismissal,proper procedures etc.

Anyone who needs a decent payroll company I m happy to pass details, this firm will do payroll for one employee or 500 employes. just email me


Mr B

[KS Cleaning]

This forum has had a wee bit of unjustified criticism lately, so I would just like to say thanks for all opinions / advice on this thread, it has been both helpfull and much appreciated.

[Richard iSparkle]

Sack him immediately. Before he has run to over a year - send him a dismissal letter. Explain why he has been dismissed. Send it recorded delivery and keep a copy. Ignore text messages and the like from him. Seek legal advice.

We get 2 years nowadays to sack without them being able to claim unfair dismissal.

Still sack him.

If he wants to take it to court let him.

Chances are he won't get anywhere.

Make sure you document everything about him tho.  Go back retrospectively over the past year and write down and date any examples of him not being an ideal employee.  Any experience of him being dishonest should be noted, however small.

The fact that he don't turn in for work for 2 weeks and disinterested contact you is enough for you to reasonably assume that he'd quit without notice.

Send him his p45 signed for delivery as suggested

Good luck.  It'll be fine

[Soupy]

We get 2 years nowadays to sack without them being able to claim unfair dismissal.

I may be wrong but I think that came into force in April 2013 so is only valid for employment commencing after that date.

Edit: I stand corrected it was 2012