[Scrimmer73]

Having been in the game , long enough to know , the risk involved in, being on top of a treble, in the wind , risking my ability to walk again , I find it very difficult to understand , MUGS , canvassing my commercial base , offering WFP, with a trolley .., and plenty of BS .. and forcing my prices down .

Do we negotiate a new deal, or let it go?

 I think the time has come for WC`s , like in Scotland , Where we need a Licence , mentioned it to Managers , I deal with and they agree , but it appears, its all about the budget sheet, and no longer a standard of your work .

Obviously I am on the Pole  , and have been for 5 years now , but the Johnny come lately`s are spoiling things with their Trolleys , and leased  Vans ...

What does anybody else out there do to protect their work and families welfare.

[mark dew]

spread the work base so the loss of any 1 job or several don't get you down. 

[Perfect Windows]

... we need a Licence ...

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I can't believe you want MORE bureaucracy.

It'll either be so cumbersome you'll be on here complaining about the trouble it takes to get a licence or it'll be so simple that your competitors will all have one anyway and you'll just have to spend money and time to no benefit every year.

No.

Vin

[Mike #1]

The way i see if i company drops you based on a lower  price and cant see through someone who is Bu**s***ing them they aint worth having .

What matters is quality of service provided along with good customer service , Some of the lads popping up now dont have a clue how to portray and maintain a high quality service and professional image .

They can tell them what they want but if they cant deliver the goods they will lose the contract just as fast as they gained it

I will not be driven down by price no way no how, I  expect a company to want me to do their windows because of the person i am along with the top quality service i provide .

Going to a meeting for a big commercial contract next week and i will be selling myself as the person i am  not some fake put on act and giving them loads of flannel . Mike

[dave f]

why do people get so flusterd about people offering a lower price its healthy compation get used to it. it is not only window cleaning that have price wars how many times have you seen asda,tesco etc on the telly boasting about their prices. imo people dont see window cleaning as a be all and end all.just get on and do the same. i have had a price review of my work .i have not had a price rise in 4 years i work for what im happy with.i set my prices low to try and keep custys, if any one wants to do it for less so be it. example ive had a part of my work canvassed buy a company quoting £14 i charge £8 i did not loose a single custy.there are a lot of greedy windies out there ive grown my round simpley because i do a good job at a fair price ive had a few comments like how much thats cheap my last window cleaner charged ex amount .

[bobplum]

echoing what dave said, i do find somewhat strange that we complain about undercutters to our selves but would buy petrol from a petrol station because it has dropped a few pence lower than our regular station

.............its called business

If i wanted a contract i would undercut the competition, providing the price quoted still made me a profit

[andyM]

If you price a job on what you feel is the right price for you, and someone offers to do it cheaper then they are welcome to have the job.
That's my philosophy anyway.

[Smudger]

Yes it's pretty pointless complaining about some one doing a job cheaper than yourself either match it or move on that's what business is all about, many commercial customers aren't interested in quality of the job just the cost.

Just remember if its all about the money these customers are constantly roaming for cheaper prices so no one will keep the work for long and if some one wants to be busy working all day for peanuts that's great! it ties them up working the cr@p work while I go out getting higher paid quality work

Darran

[daniel worgan]

Negotiating new deals when others are offering a different approach to a business that saves their owners/shareholders money is what business is about.
We have a flood of wfp boys around here now,all fancy new stuff and all cleaning windows at what many customers call high prices,so in steps a bloke  with an alternative but mainly lower prices and guess what his business is flourishing,he is nicking loads of customers who like good old traditional methods and value for money.Business is business you see....

[roundbuilder]

Price wars are everywhere, everyone thinks they have a great round with great prices but if there was next to no competition then the £10 terrace house we do would be able to be £30 instead!! but where there is lots of competition its the opposite  someone would always do them cheaper to get in there and offer to do it for £6/7 and still make a good living with the prices, also then the customer is even happier paying much less saving £36 a year we want the highest price available where as the customer wants to spend as little as possible so price wars will always be about. Undercutting is just the nature of business!. Who cant accept that hasnt a clue in the fundimentals in basic business stratagy.
To get in this game nowdays the easiest way is to simply undercut the competition, give the customer what they want. Sadly for us established guys its a pain but i have learnt to live with the fact that i will be undercut from time to time.
Everone of us on here shop about for the cheapest gas/electric supplier. Its the way of life.

[simonr]

i have jobs in about a 10mile radius from home ok   if all counties wanted a licence i'd need 3 cumbria ,yorkshire & lancashire   yup great idea

undercutting happens in all trades, why are we so different???

[home6442]

If the customer is happy with your work and price then you wont
lose them through undercutting.
I have had window cleaners offer my customers cleans at half off what I charge.
Never lost a good customer yet.
Don't get greedy look after your quality and let others worry about undercutting.

[windiewasher]

I always find the best way to get rid of undercutters is to threaten them with hospital food.
 they soon crawl under a rock.

[p1w1]

I always find the best way to get rid of undercutters is to threaten them with hospital food.
 they soon crawl under a rock.

Do you really 

[daniel worgan]

I always find the best way to get rid of undercutters is to threaten them with hospital food.
 they soon crawl under a rock.

Tough guy...

[Michael Peterson]

Thats the commercial game im afraid, i never rely on commercial and only ever have about 20% commercial

[redstarwindowcleaners]

I clean a number of mobile home units on a small park home site  £7 each

Someone leafleted the site this week quoting  £3

[Scrimble]

I got taught a lesson recently, i got asked to quote a local estate agents, i wasnt actually going to turn up because i thought that they prob want it to be done for peanuts,

i went and quoted it, £10 as thats my minimum charge, its only a small shop they asked for the windows (1 pane and a door) in side and out done, 2 upstairs windows and the sign cleaning, they asked me the frequency (i said i am in the area every 2 weeks as i do a few other commercials so i will fit you in) the shop manager accepted,

i goes and does it and the manager was pleased with the results he told me the price is now £15 per clean as thats what his head office has authorised for window cleaning and he wants his shop to be maintained, he goes on to tell me about previous window cleaners none he was happy with along with there even lower prices, he even showed me a leaflet saying all shops £3 per clean which he didnt call.

my image reflects my professionalism, I dont do cheap or undercutting, there are customers out there who want to pay good money and want a proper job doing.

[dazmond]

first and foremost DO A GOOD JOB,frames sills and doors as well as glass,price fair for you and the customer,be reliable.always ring customers back if theres a problem and fix it.

LOOK THE PART!nice clean tidy van,clean logo d polo shirts,decent business cards,slips and leaflets,offer different ways to pay(eg cheque SAE,BACS,cash)etc.

be flexible on frequency if they think monthly is too frequent.

offer add ons like cleaning their solar panels,conny roofs and full UPVC cleans.

be friendly and stay calm even if the customer(soon to be ex customer)is a pain/messer etc.

if you do all of the above you ll get a very good professional reputation and work will come to you throughout the year and you wont lose jobs to undercutters on domestics anyway.

commercial?i have some very good priced accounts and i do all of the above on these as well.never lost a customer yet.

if you do lose the odd account DONT TAKE IT PERSONALLY!there will always be another customer just around the corner.i have to reiterate IF YOU DO ALL OF THE ABOVE!!

never rest on your laurels,continue to work hard and offer the best service you can.

by the way i stay away from shops,chains etc as their always chopping and changing.most of my work is good solid reliable domestic work with mid size offices,childrens homes,nurseries etc on the commercial side.


best wishes to you all



dazmond

[Scrimmer73]

Thank You , all for your response I have learnt a lot .
Regards

[dave f]

commonsence

[gavinb]

If someone want to undercut my £3.50 a house they more than welcome .

[Mr Sparkle]

Price what your happy with.
I have a minimum charge of £10
If people want to work for pennys that's up to them.
Do a good job and customers wont dump you for an undercutter, If they do you don't want the muppets anyway 

[formb]

If he isn't charging enough he won't last long. If he is charging enough then you were charging too much, so you can't really complain.

Trust me you DO NOT want a licensing system. Not like ours anyway. Its a shambles.

[Smudger]

What was the idea behind a licence for window cleaners anyway?

[Ian101]

first and foremost DO A GOOD JOB,frames sills and doors as well as glass,price fair for you and the customer,be reliable.always ring customers back if theres a problem and fix it.

LOOK THE PART!nice clean tidy van,clean logo d polo shirts,decent business cards,slips and leaflets,offer different ways to pay(eg cheque SAE,BACS,cash)etc.

be flexible on frequency if they think monthly is too frequent.

offer add ons like cleaning their solar panels,conny roofs and full UPVC cleans.

be friendly and stay calm even if the customer(soon to be ex customer)is a pain/messer etc.

if you do all of the above you ll get a very good professional reputation and work will come to you throughout the year and you wont lose jobs to undercutters on domestics anyway.

commercial?i have some very good priced accounts and i do all of the above on these as well.never lost a customer yet.

if you do lose the odd account DONT TAKE IT PERSONALLY!there will always be another customer just around the corner.i have to reiterate IF YOU DO ALL OF THE ABOVE!!

never rest on your laurels,continue to work hard and offer the best service you can.

by the way i stay away from shops,chains etc as their always chopping and changing.most of my work is good solid reliable domestic work with mid size offices,childrens homes,nurseries etc on the commercial side.


best wishes to you all



dazmond

+1 ............. I do all this ................. alas apart from the bit about pia customers and staying nice to em  .... but im trying


had a situation this week when a chap who i had cleaned for for 4 months says thanks but going to do them myself from now on so started thinking a few things to say to him in my normal arsey way for messers and then he says yeah the doctor says it will do me good .....  so talks a little more and turns out that he had a major bleed on the brain about a year ago and basically nearly died  so couldnt do his own windows which he always had done before .... lesson learned

[formb]

What was the idea behind a licence for window cleaners anyway?

The intention behind the idea is a good one. You must apply for a licence to clean windows. In order to get one you must have public liability insurance and your application is passed to the chief constable for comment. Enforced correctly it should stop your dole claimers, moonlighting firemen, con men, etc. That's the idea anyway.

My main issues with it are:

Nobody knows it exists. Even most coppers are unaware of it. I have spoken to fellow window cleaners who have been in the game for years, I ask them if the have a licence, their usual response is "?"

It only really effects legitimate window cleaners as the law is rarely enforced. Two of my lads were arrested for filling in the form incorrectly a few years ago, other than that I know one other window cleaner who has been arrested for working without a licence (I know of at least 50 who operate without one i.e most people).

The process is painfully slow. I applied for a licence on April 11th. It is still not through and will take AT LEAST another month. During this time the applicant is NOT allowed to clean windows.

Makes the honest man's life more difficult is all it does.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

With regard to the above comment,
Is it not time for a 'proper' Federation or Governing Body for all the Professional Window Cleaners in the UK? One that works with and FOR its members on a PRO ACTIVE basis. If a licence system was introduced in England they could work/inform/communicate with Police community officers who patrol residential areas who seem too spend some of there time looking for people who leave there bins out on the wrong days, littering, etc etc. Surely catching illegal window cleaners would be high on there hit list! A feather in there cap so too speak.
Window Cleaning Trading Standards!
Just a thought!

[andyM]

With regard to the above comment,
Is it not time for a 'proper' Federation or Governing Body for all the Professional Window Cleaners in the UK? One that works with and FOR its members on a PRO ACTIVE basis. If a licence system was introduced in England they could work/inform/communicate with Police community officers who patrol residential areas who seem too spend some of there time looking for people who leave there bins out on the wrong days, littering, etc etc. Surely catching illegal window cleaners would be high on there hit list! A feather in there cap so too speak.
Window Cleaning Trading Standards!
Just a thought!

"Illegal Window Cleaners"!?
Have a word with yourself! 
Do bin men, gardeners, builders, carpenters, electricians, plasterers, pizza delivery drivers etc. need a license aswell?
So all customers should presume a tradesman is rogue before they can prove otherwise by having a "license"? 

[formb]

"Illegal Window Cleaners"!?

No need for the inverted commas. He was referring to my post and in Scotland you are indeed breaking the law if you clean windows without a licence (again no need for inverted commas, it exists)

[andyM]

"Illegal Window Cleaners"!?

No need for the inverted commas. He was referring to my post and in Scotland you are indeed breaking the law if you clean windows without a licence (again no need for inverted commas, it exists)

Ok. Point taken. 

[formb]

The licencing idea is a good one but it'll never work. The only people who give a monkey's arm pit are people like me. Honest window cleaners trying to abide by the rules  No one else cares, not the police, not 'community officers' not even customers.

In Scotland all they have done is taken the taxi licencing system and applied it to window cleaners. It doesn't work because if you want to employ you must get a licence for a potential employee BEFORE they start. This can take months. The system works for taxi drivers because they will tend to get a licence off their own back before they apply for a job. I have been employing for 15+ years, and I've done 100s of interviews. Only once have I interviewed someone that already held a licence

[vespawho]

On the subject of undercutters.....
My background is from the building trade, where you never think twice about being undercut or beaten on price. It happens!!
As others have said, ....you have an idea of what you want to earn, conduct your business. I have always found that in business if you are polite, do a good job and be consistent with prices (high or low) because friends do talk, then you will have a sound business.
Customers want a good price these days in all trades, most still want quality. Some will be swayed by price more than others. Dont get upset by it, it happens.
I know i will loose some customers as time goes by, it wont be for any other reason but price. If they cancel....i would just say, sorry to be loosing you, if you find their service is not up to much then please give me a call.
Not really because i want them back, but always better to leave on a good note with the door still open......Shows your business in a better light.


As for a licence......again in the building trade we have had these come and go over the last 30 years. It will NEVER stop the cowboy etc traders. So no thanks, more money, more hassle!

How many of you are breaking the law now....Have you got your waste carriers licence?.....Do you know if you clean someones gutters and have the bag of rubbish in the van you are supposed to have this licence?
Brought in about 17 years ago to stop fly tippers. It made it worse over night fact!

Licences, trade bodies, federations etc etc......they are only good for one thing....empting your pocket!!!!

[Scrimmer73]

Opened a can of worms here .
At the time of posting I was annoyed , that something I had put so much work into , with the Customer Service, a couple of years ago , when they had no money , and I looked after them .
 That they would mess ME , about, now things are improving financially, for them , anyway..
The Licence bit , well, that was borne from a Till lady , who noticed my shirt , apparently her friend is a
WC, as well in his spare time ?..Once he has done his 16 hours for Tesco, getting his benefits
Is he now ,free to tap up our customers, with a public liability certificate , until he gets caught ??.
From what she said , she is a Gardener , and both of them are doing well , with a F@+# YOU very much attitude to us WC's, and everybody else ...
No Malice , intended, just offering an explanation to why , Licences, Might be a good idea.