[JamesAJF]

i been doing trade for 5 years enjoyed it to start with then about 3 years past and i really got bored of it and now i have recently got a van mount wfp system and its the best bloody investment ever wish i got 1 at the beginning makes a lot more money. picking up bigger work doing houses a lot more quicker and its really motivating me now i have realized how much more money i can earn.

[G Griffin]

Neither do I Griff. I just notice that it seems to bother WFP blokes enough to make them start a thread about it every few weeks. It's all about making money. Snobbery amoung cleaners eh? Who'd have thought it 

I agree, C.
You used the word 'insecure' earlier and I think that's right. Some wfp'ers don't like presence of trad, so they can't be that confident of the pole.
But some tradders won't recognise the benefits of a wfp system.
Silly, really.

[Jakey boy]

I love being trad, I worked with a family friend who's trad and saw his huge earnings, and started my own round, it's all I know, never bothered with wfp, and I really think people who are wfp need to accept that there will always be trad cleaners, so leave us be! We're all trying to make a living, and that's that!


I've nothing against wfp, I'm just happy with trad, I'm building a good solid round and can earn very good money in short time.

The other thing I seem to get A LOT is customers saying 'oh you do it off ladders, I'm so glad, that pole thingy is useless' - not my words, these are customers.

Makes me want to stay trad, especially as a lot of people prefer it.

When I'm old, that's the time I might invest in a pole system.

Trad is low cost, low maintenance, very few overheads, and almost always happier customers. The truth is trad will always be the better job, and I think that's why a lot of wfp guys seem to make these threads and moan about ladders, safety etc.

We're all window cleaners, so lets leave it be! 

[Mike #1]

The pole thingy is useless in useless peoples hands .

Their wont always be trad cleaners as eventually they will retire and WFP will take over as it is in my work area over 5 yrs ago i was the only windy to use wfp ,  Now 4 lads have converted to wfp

In the right hands wfp does a far better job frames are cleaned to a spotless finish and doors are washed down i would love to see a trad cleaner do a better job than me  . Mike

[C o z y]

Yeah Mike, but some customers still don't like it. That's why some of the WFP guys on here think they need to convince us all to convert. As was said earlier, who cares what method someone uses? It's about earning. We're all doing the same job, but some of us are thick. 

[A & J Owen Window Cleaning]

We offer both & always will; there are advantages to both and also disadvantages.
Some customers just don't like wfp particularly on bottom windows and you can't 'educate' them because they don't want to be educated. We are in a service industry and if the customer wants something and it's possible to deliver that safely then that's fine by me.
I don't understand why there is so much animosity from some wfp cleaners to trad cleaners, we do the same job; we just get there in different ways

[Mike #1]

Some customers dont like wfp because they have been used to trad for so long and dont know anything different,

But what i cannot understand about custys of trad cleaners is why  they are content to have dirty window frames the glass is clean but the top of the frames are filthy and the doors are not much better why put up with a second or third  rate service

I have over 15 yrs experience  in window cleaning and most of them trad so i know all the ins & outs of both methods ,

 But ultimately it is about quality of service provided that is what matters and wfp is better   . Mike

[AuRavelling79]

Thanks for all your replies chaps.

Interesting that a few of you think that trad. does a better job. I suppose it means even more ladder climbs, leaning out to do the frames and cills thoroughly. No-one seems to claim it is as safe as houses anymore.

Also I note that old chestnut of "the customer prefers it" being mentioned. If true, why do my customers in this particular road and the other wfp cleaned windows by other operators not go over to the trad boys?

In this road I have noticed 3 other wfp'ers, the traddies I've mentioned and one other trad/gardener who turns up in a classic MkIII Cortina. So the customers have opportunity to move to trad if it's a better job.

[SunShineCleaning]

Thanks for all your replies chaps.

Interesting that a few of you think that trad. does a better job. I suppose it means even more ladder climbs, leaning out to do the frames and cills thoroughly. No-one seems to claim it is as safe as houses anymore.

Also I note that old chestnut of "the customer prefers it" being mentioned. If true, why do my customers in this particular road and the other wfp cleaned windows by other operators not go over to the trad boys?

In this road I have noticed 3 other wfp'ers, the traddies I've mentioned and one other trad/gardener who turns up in a classic MkIII Cortina. So the customers have opportunity to move to trad if it's a better job.

Because customers are like most of us, they hate change.

[Tomboler]

' who turns up in a classic MkIII Cortina '

There's your answer, he's living a retro life, like those folks who dress in 40's gear, decorate their houses in that style etc, he [the Tradder] has probably got a pristine old style kitchen with shammies drying over the stove (or however they did it in the 70's), anyway let's celebrate diversity (not those gymnastics guys, our differences) in all things  

[SunShineCleaning]

I love being trad, I worked with a family friend who's trad and saw his huge earnings, and started my own round, it's all I know, never bothered with wfp, and I really think people who are wfp need to accept that there will always be trad cleaners, so leave us be! We're all trying to make a living, and that's that!


I've nothing against wfp, I'm just happy with trad, I'm building a good solid round and can earn very good money in short time.

The other thing I seem to get A LOT is customers saying 'oh you do it off ladders, I'm so glad, that pole thingy is useless' - not my words, these are customers.

Makes me want to stay trad, especially as a lot of people prefer it.

When I'm old, that's the time I might invest in a pole system

Trad is low cost, low maintenance, very few overheads, and almost always happier customers. The truth is trad will always be the better job, and I think that's why a lot of wfp guys seem to make these threads and moan about ladders, safety etc.

 We're all window cleaners, so lets leave it be!

I guess you are in your 20's?

If so that is the age when we feel invincible.

I make no excuse for encouraging people to work is a safer manner, I even tut at people who, while being 20 yards from a pedestrian crossing choose to cross the road without using it.

Gold's question is a good one although it will bring out the defensive nature of most people.

The idea that the customers complain about pole work is also interesting.

In my 25 years experience as a window cleaner I have noticed that customers will tell you what they THINK rather than what they SEE regarding workmanship which is entirely based on their own prejudice.

[dazmond]

there were times i was content with trad but 2 ladder falls in 16 years and an increase in knee niggles plus more customers having extensions built,gravel and imprinted concrete driveways,decking etc made me think.

in the end i was that fed up with climbing ladders 100 times a day just to clean an upper window i was thinking of jacking it in.

seriously guys if your income is mainly maintenance window cleaning then wfp with a van mount system(IMO)and full carbon poles is the best way to earn more money safely.

as for cleaning?i would say that wfp does a more thorough job than trad due to the frames being cleaned.even if you clean frames trad you just wont get them as clean with a cloth as you do with pure water.

as for trad i do still do it every day albeit only for some ground floor windows.in fact i would go as far as to say i quite enjoy it!!

as for customers i dont get many complaints at all.lots of them love the pole system from the feedback they give me.


regards


dazmond

[home6442]

Five new cleaners in the area I work this week alone
all waiting to take my work if my quality drops.
If I was a trad cleaner there is no way id risk changing to wfp at this
moment in time.
I am sure there are a lot of trad guys who have looked into going wfp checked out
the pros and cons and decided if its not broke don't fix it.

[SunShineCleaning]

Five new cleaners in the area I work this week alone
all waiting to take my work if my quality drops.
If I was a trad cleaner there is no way id risk changing to wfp at this
moment in time.
I am sure there are a lot of trad guys who have looked into going wfp checked out
the pros and cons and decided if its not broke don't fix it.

If however we break, it may be difficult to fix it!

[C o z y]

Some customers dont like wfp because they have been used to trad for so long and dont know anything different,

But what i cannot understand about custys of trad cleaners is why  they are content to have dirty window frames the glass is clean but the top of the frames are filthy and the doors are not much better why put up with a second or third  rate service

I have over 15 yrs experience  in window cleaning and most of them trad so i know all the ins & outs of both methods ,

 But ultimately it is about quality of service provided that is what matters and wfp is better   . Mike

Yeah Mike, now tell that to all those custies who cancelled. Simples. 

[Jakey boy]

Yeah Mike, but some customers still don't like it. That's why some of the WFP guys on here think they need to convince us all to convert. As was said earlier, who cares what method someone uses? It's about earning. We're all doing the same job, but some of us are thick. 

Well said. I clean frames, and doors on people who ask, and there always happy, I've picked up many a customer who've had a wfp service that just isn't good enough.

WFP has its benefits and is great for anything high and big, commercial buildings etc, I'm not anti it, I just don't see the point forking out £££ on it when people seem happier with me using the trad method. 

I will one day probably incorporate a wfp system, but probably not till I'm a lot older! Besides, ladders keep me fit!

[SunShineCleaning]

Yeah Mike, but some customers still don't like it. That's why some of the WFP guys on here think they need to convince us all to convert. As was said earlier, who cares what method someone uses? It's about earning. We're all doing the same job, but some of us are thick. 

Well said. I clean frames, and doors on people who ask, and there always happy, I've picked up many a customer who've had a wfp service that just isn't good enough.

WFP has its benefits and is great for anything high and big, commercial buildings etc, I'm not anti it, I just don't see the point forking out £££ on it when people seem happier with me using the trad method. 

I will one day probably incorporate a wfp system, but probably not till I'm a lot older! Besides, ladders keep me fit!

Falling off them could keep you dead.

[C o z y]

So could 500 kilo's of water when it hits the back of your seat when you smack your van into the car in front. 23 years on ladders and slipped in my first year once. Bruised and smarter about being careful with ladders was the result.

As I said earlier, convince your custies, not other windies. Custies want clean windows, how you do it is upto you. It's a good thing that your custies have a choice, isn't it?  They chose you, be happy about that and leave everyone else to choose how they work.

[SunShineCleaning]

So could 500 kilo's of water when it hits the back of your seat when you smack your van into the car in front. 23 years on ladders and slipped in my first year once. Bruised and smarter about being careful with ladders was the result.

As I said earlier, convince your custies, not other windies. Custies want clean windows, how you do it is upto you. It's a good thing that your custies have a choice, isn't it?  They chose you, be happy about that and leave everyone else to choose how they work.

While I don't disagree with you I would be interested to know what the likelihood of this happening is.

I can name 6 people who have either died or have been seriously injured in the last 18 months due to falling off ladders yet I don't know of anyone who has had a serious injury or indeed any injury because they travel with water in their van.

Yes it's your choice, but this is a public forum, if I wish to chip in and inform I will. 

[keyser soze]

do you ever get that feeling . this topic goes round and round and round and round and then some .... lots of dangerous things around ... mountain climbing for one and people do that for fun . if a tradder wants to trad and its a risk surely its down to their choice.. i always thought we lived in a free country ... booo to the health and safety brigade .its a boring arguement ... so many dangerous things in life .life is full of dangers  ,,i think tradders  get more chance of being mugged for their daily loot than falling from ladders .. should there be a ban on collecting cash...