[Mike #1]

I have problems with kit etc after 5yrs of wfp and their is no way I would go back to ladders

[A & J Owen Window Cleaning]

Being able to offer both is the best way in my opinion. Safety for wfp and it does do a better job on certain windows but it doesn't hurt to do some trad work because it keeps customers happy, and yes a lot do prefer it.
I know a lot don't like doing wfp tops/trad bottoms but it usually keeps the customers from moaning.
I enjoy working trad more also.

[joshem]

Even if you didn't have back ups and lost a few days of work it would be more than covered by the extra you will earn as WFP if you stick with it. I'm in my third week of WFP from being trad for only two years. Not a chance I would ever go back if just for the safety aspect. I don't have to turn custom away anymore because they have a three storey house. I don't have to say "can't do that window, it's inaccessible". I don't turn down leaded houses anymore because they're so knackering. It doesn't take me half a day to do first cleans when doing frames, and all round I feel so much more professional. I am part-time and have 100 houses. Only one bloke was skeptical about the change over so I told him that I would still do it WFP the first time and if he wasn't happy with the results I would come back and correct it trad. He's had his frames scrubbed with vents sorted too, and I haven't heard a word from him. The younger generation (50s and under) don't really care how you do it as long as they can see through them. It's the oldies that want spit and polish and yeah they're the best payers and seem to be home 24/7 but, trying not to be too morbid, how much longer will they be around? You'll probably go the rest of your life trad and never fall and injure yourself seriously but if you do it could cost you big. H&S has gone too far with people getting fanatical about it, so much so that you'd never get out of bed in the morning, but if you don't need to be taking risks then why bother?

[ascjim]

I could never go back to ladders, there would't be enough time in the day to do my work off a ladder

[scottt24]

A few years ago when I was in partnership with a mate he had a fall and broke his back, it wasn't the worst brake but he was off work for six months.
Me and the three lads we had working for us worked our socks off to keep up.
When he came back to work he still went up ladders but you could see how nervous he got sometimes.
Within a few months we decided to shell out and set both vans up for wfp.
Within six more months we were all up to speed and needed more work, everyone loved using the poles, but most of us missed cleaning trad at some point during the first few months of switching
We both still trad certain jobs and insides, but nothing off a ladder
Bottom line for me is, you can't fall off a pole

[robbo333]

I know you will all think me mad.
Been wfp 14 months and yes its safer and sometimes quicker.
wfp is driving me crazy theres always a problem with the kit
The expence and custies if given the choice i know prefare trad
and it really does do a better job.
Have been back on ladders 3 days due to faulty pump,and have quite enjoyed it
less hastle,proper exercise thinking of going back to ladders full time.
 

Why not try working with other window cleaners for a day and seeing what kit they have and what issues they have with it?
It could just be your kit needs tweaking (or maybe a slightly different setup) to get the best out of it?
I think you get good results with both trad and wfp and I use both methods depending on what i'm doing. I always check my work and I never get complaints (did once, but did it in heavy rain for a tenancy inspection the next morning).
I don't think custys prefer trad or wfp, they just want clean windows...imo. I always take the time to explain to new custys how the system works and make sure there is a fairly dry window by the end of a first clean so they can inspect it and see how the glass is drying.
I hate ladders now (not climbing up them) but getting them out the van!

[G Griffin]

That's because he's a grown up Griff.

That is true.

[dazmond]

i could never go back.ive been WFP for nearly 3 years now and im making more money than ever in a shorter space of time, nice and safe from the ground.

ive also picked up lots of good work in the last 3 years BECAUSE i use the pole system!!

i just dont understand this attitude that customers prefer trad!i do trad some work but its mainly ground floor windows.

ive never had it so good!long may it continue!!

seriously WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO CLIMB A LADDER TO CLEAN EVERY UPPER WINDOW ON YOUR ROUND WHEN YOU CAN POLE IT FROM THE GROUND!!


the mind boggles!!

[dave f]

if we aint carefull this could turn in to another trad v wfp 

[simonr]

WFP you should be pulling in £200 a day wherever you are in the country. Thats plenty to put some by for spare pumps, parts etc should they be needed.

thats crap,  that gives new starters the wrong idea & expectations, a lot may well do that amount but not round my way if your mostly domestic

[EandM]

Never go back - never surrender

[david mark]

Trolly set ups are letting the wfp  way of cleaning down there's a husband and wife team in st,annes lancs running one trolly with 2 feed pipes  cleaning at 30 on the controller not rinsing the windows properly

[AuRavelling79]

Trolly set ups are letting the wfp  way of cleaning down there's a husband and wife team in st,annes lancs running one trolly with 2 feed pipes  cleaning at 30 on the controller not rinsing the windows properly

Trolley set ups can do just as good a job for the customer; it is just that they are not generally the most efficient way for a window cleaner to operate.

[scottt24]

Trolly set ups are letting the wfp  way of cleaning down there's a husband and wife team in st,annes lancs running one trolly with 2 feed pipes  cleaning at 30 on the controller not rinsing the windows properly

Nothing wrong with trolley system if that's what works best for you
A poor operator can make any system look bad

[mlscontractcleaner]

WFP you should be pulling in £200 a day wherever you are in the country. Thats plenty to put some by for spare pumps, parts etc should they be needed.

thats crap,  that gives new starters the wrong idea & expectations, a lot may well do that amount but not round my way if your mostly domestic

I live in Plymouth mate, not the best paying area of the country, and I can pull in £200 easily enough in a day. Where do you live???

[rosskesava]

I can understand fully someone not getting on with wfp.

Whether or not that's a good reason to go back to ladders and trad, dunno?

When I was trad all I had in the back of the van was  a few bits. Now though, it's all crammed in.

Life was very simple, you knew how long each job took and you knew the customer would be always happy with the result. Apart from the van, the overheads were almost nothing or very little and there was nothing to go wrong with the equipment.

A mop, squeegee, bucket of water and a ladder. Simple and straight forwards.

On the question of accidents using ladders, if they are used properly, they shouldn't be a risk. The risk comes usually when in some way they are not used in the correct way. Ladders with people on them don't just fall over or slip by magic.

Having said that, the less I go up a ladder the happier I am because it's always there at the back of my mind that one day.....

[[GQC] Tim]

I think what you can gather from the above posts is that wfp can be made to work, but it needs preparation, both of yourself and your equipment. A properly set up system will not give you any problems. In fact, after 5 years I'm still on my first pump and controller, even though I now have a GrippaMax system/DIY install. Ask lots of questions and think, sometimes out of the box. Learn simple troubleshooting, step by step isolating the problem. It's not rocket science, but there is some knowledge involved. Carry some basic tools, and minor spares.

Same for the technique, it can work, and will work very well. It's all in the preparation and details.

Yes, you can do a good job with traditional tools, but the safety aspect is a thorn in the side. It's a very inefficient way of cleaning windows. The time you take to get up and down your ladder and moving it has got nothing to do with cleaning windows. With a pole you can practically keep cleaning windows, bar the occasional niggles of laying out the hose.

It will work, do the research, set it up properly, and train yourself and your customers. Hang in there.


I would slightly disagree with the comments on trolleys. A trolley setup will not get you the best start in wfp.

For one, you will always skimp on water, whilst this is exactly where you need the water the most, to get a proper flow, to be fast, and to clean efficiently.
More over, it's a hateful thing to keep lifting a dead weight out of the van, and rolling it around you, barrels and all. Refill every 10 minutes or less.
Van mounted system every time, it can be done on the cheap. A good trad window cleaner should earn enough money to save up for a basic van and system. Dump the trolley. If you have an awkward job that needs a trolley and backpack, you are better off without the job.

[rosskesava]

Tim - you make some good points.

I think sometimes when going over to wfp that lack of confidence by the window cleaner using wfp comes across to the customer in a subtle way.

Mix that with a set up that is awkward and slow to use?

Using a pole system should always be much, much faster than doing the job trad especially for the upstairs windows.

If it's not, then the jobs being done wrong or the equipment is wrong for the job. I used a backpack for every job for about 2 weeks before deciding it was the wrong set up when I first went over to wfp many moons ago.

I think it's a mix of lack of confidence in wfp and the wrong set up. I could be wrong but I've been there myself.

[DG Cleaning]

WFP you should be pulling in £200 a day wherever you are in the country. Thats plenty to put some by for spare pumps, parts etc should they be needed.

thats crap,  that gives new starters the wrong idea & expectations, a lot may well do that amount but not round my way if your mostly domestic

I live in Plymouth mate, not the best paying area of the country, and I can pull in £200 easily enough in a day. Where do you live???

Got to agree with kybl £200 per day is a lot where I live too.
I've never done that much.

[simonr]

I live in Plymouth mate, not the best paying area of the country, and I can pull in £200 easily enough in a day. Where do you live???
[/quote]

i live in the lake district  & work mostly round kendal & a few villages,  its frustrating cos there's a lot of money up here( a lot of people retire or have 2nd homes up here)  but there are still a lot of low wages.  my old estate has 4 wc living on it & another 4 that work up there.    i'm the most expensive at £6 for 3 bed & £5 for 2, out in the villages you can charge decent prices but there are a lot of windies so there are no big runs  its all 1's & 2's . 3 or 4 is a good run
i have done over 200 but it was a 9hr day & i had 1 £66 job that took 1hr 20 min  that was a camp site thats now been sold & broken up.   if i earn over £100 a day( and i normally do )  i'm still on a lot more than a lot of people i know eg; my mate is a groundwork ganger & he needs overtime to take home £350