[Dana Kothrade]

I'm all for a head to head show down. I'll talk with Mike and Martin about where, when and with who. I've actually got a customer doing his first stone job tomorrow on the very stone that Kevin chose. I'll tell him to take pics. He's not using the pucks he's using the 17" Cheetahs but they'll do just fine.

[StoneSealersHQ]

Sounds like an interesting head to head.

I take it total investment required to achieve the overall outcome would be considered? As every machine and system comes with a price tag. The most expensive isn't necessarily the best.

[Kev Martin]

I'm all for a head to head show down. I'll talk with Mike and Martin about where, when and with who. I've actually got a customer doing his first stone job tomorrow on the very stone that Kevin chose. I'll tell him to take pics. He's not using the pucks he's using the 17" Cheetahs but they'll do just fine.

Dana

It is not a showdown.  I am not interested in any more pictures or videos either. It is just an independant genuine test I want for your diamonds on a real floor on a limestone / marble that is a little more difficult to restore and polish instead of just showing everyone how easy it is to polish a couple of bits of light marble on a board at a show that I could polish with a few hand diamonds and a bottle of Aqua Mix Renue.  If they work! Then you get two things:

1.  You prove to CIU members on here that the diamonds work on a floor you had nothing to do with beforehand!
2.  I will shut up and endorse your system to others because you will have proved to us that it works in a real situation.

Finally can you send me a couple of contact details of the larger corporations that are using the system already in the US as I will be visiting across the pond and I want to get their first hand opinions as well.  I will be in California, New Orleans and Chicago.  I understand your in CA so one in CA and one say in Illinois would be good or maybe the address of that bank you mentioned.  Finally is there anyone in Europe using it?  Because I am in Germany, Austria and France in a couple of weeks!  But as I am driving I am going through parts of Belgium and Holland as well so if there is anyone in one of those five countries it would be good to talk to a European user as well!

Kind regards

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

[Kev Martin]

Sounds like an interesting head to head.

I take it total investment required to achieve the overall outcome would be considered? As every machine and system comes with a price tag. The most expensive isn't necessarily the best.

Dave

It is not a Head to Head it is just a test to prove that Dana's system can actually do a real floor and not just a board at a show or on a U Tube video. 

You can come as well if you like with your old faithful rotary and show everyone your diamonds as well!  Let me know and I will get my lads to lay an additional 10M2 of Nero Maquina!

You can bring your concrete polishing system as well and we can set up another test on concrete so people have a couple of different things to watch!  I would like to see your system and as you know we have 300M2 of 40 year old concrete we can use!

What do you think?

I suggest a Saturday would be best but I am not bothered which day as long as we get some notice!

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

[StoneSealersHQ]

I'm happy to bring down the concrete machine, do you have three phase? If not, I'll need to bring the generator. Earliest I could get down though be end May/beginning of June as it's being used until then on a few projects, one of which is being featured on Grand Designs later in the year.

[Kev Martin]

I'm happy to bring down the concrete machine, do you have three phase? If not, I'll need to bring the generator. Earliest I could get down though be end May/beginning of June as it's being used until then on a few projects, one of which is being featured on Grand Designs later in the year.

Dave

Happy to do the concrete at anytime and don't worry 3 Phase is not a problem as I have a genny.  

So what about the grinding and polishing of the stone then with your old faithful system and your diamonds as that would be interestng to see them cutting lippage as well?  I for one would be really interested to see these diamonds you have developed yourself as I am sure other CIU would be interested as well! It could even be an alternative system to Dana's that members might buy!  I don't think people will want to wait 2-3 months to see Dana demonstrate his system I was thinking a couple of weeks time! Can you make it then?

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

[Dana Kothrade]

This all sounds fun. For now while the details get figured out Mike is going to do a two day class where people can use them on floors all day. I'm sure he will be doing lots of these classes soon and maybe some live demonstrations too. The whole point of this wasn't to prove to Kevin that they work. The point was to expose the truth. That judgement being passed on a system you haven't seen is just wrong. Like them or hate them, that's fine but at least see them with your own eyes before passing judgement and be truthful with your posts. That's all I'm asking. I buy test and review nearly every new product that's introduced to the industry. Some I like. Some are worthless. But I don't go out of my way to bad mouth anyone's product publicly. Why bother? I just smile and say to myself, nice try, they got close, maybe the next generation will be better and I leave it at that. Cheetah Pads aren't gone FYI. They're selling well in 28 countries. Do they work? Uh yes. Can they be used improperly so results and efficiency aren't what they should be? Absolutely. But that's the case with any product someone uses without understanding it first.

So to sum this all up, go see Mike at NuLife if you want to make an informed decision based on hands on use of the Cheetah Pucks. I'm sure he'd be happy to let almost anyone stop by and give them a spin.

[Paul Moss]

If this comes off, would it be possible for other members of the forum to see this first hand. If so book me a place please.

[Dana Kothrade]

I want to broadcast it live on the web if everyone else will agree to it...

[StoneSealersHQ]

I'm happy to bring down the concrete machine, do you have three phase? If not, I'll need to bring the generator. Earliest I could get down though be end May/beginning of June as it's being used until then on a few projects, one of which is being featured on Grand Designs later in the year.

Dave

Happy to do the concrete at anytime and don't worry 3 Phase is not a problem as I have a genny.  

So what about the grinding and polishing of the stone then with your old faithful system and your diamonds as that would be interestng to see them cutting lippage as well?  I for one would be really interested to see these diamonds you have developed yourself as I am sure other CIU would be interested as well! It could even be an alternative system to Dana's that members might buy!  I don't think people will want to wait 2-3 months to see Dana demonstrate his system I was thinking a couple of weeks time! Can you make it then?

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

It wouldn't be an alternative to Dana's, my system still has all the different passes required same as the traditional systems. I may be interested, depends on my health, I'm not the fit as a butchers dog fella I was before my operation at the beginning of the year, hence why I'm having the concrete machine made bespoke to me to reduce these physical effects. But don't count me out, just yet

[Dana Kothrade]

The Cheetah Pucks work on concrete as well. Marble, travertine, limestone, terrazzo, granite and concrete. You don't need but the first three steps on concrete unless they want extreme high gloss.

[Kev Martin]

This all sounds fun. For now while the details get figured out Mike is going to do a two day class where people can use them on floors all day. I'm sure he will be doing lots of these classes soon and maybe some live demonstrations too. The whole point of this wasn't to prove to Kevin that they work. The point was to expose the truth. That judgement being passed on a system you haven't seen is just wrong. Like them or hate them, that's fine but at least see them with your own eyes before passing judgement and be truthful with your posts. That's all I'm asking. I buy test and review nearly every new product that's introduced to the industry. Some I like. Some are worthless. But I don't go out of my way to bad mouth anyone's product publicly. Why bother? I just smile and say to myself, nice try, they got close, maybe the next generation will be better and I leave it at that. Cheetah Pads aren't gone FYI. They're selling well in 28 countries. Do they work? Uh yes. Can they be used improperly so results and efficiency aren't what they should be? Absolutely. But that's the case with any product someone uses without understanding it first.

So to sum this all up, go see Mike at NuLife if you want to make an informed decision based on hands on use of the Cheetah Pucks. I'm sure he'd be happy to let almost anyone stop by and give them a spin.

Dana

So what you are essentially saying is!  

We can go and try the system at Nu Life on a prepared floor but you or anyone else doesn't want to demonstrate the system on a real floor I prepare?

Do I have that correct or have I misunderstood?

You didn't answer this bit either:

Finally can you send me a couple of contact details of the larger corporations that are using the system already in the US as I will be visiting across the pond and I want to get their first hand opinions as well.  I will be in California, New Orleans and Chicago.  I understand your in CA so one in CA and one say in Illinois would be good or maybe the address of that bank you mentioned.  Finally is there anyone in Europe using it?  Because I am in Germany, Austria and France in a couple of weeks!  But as I am driving I am going through parts of Belgium and Holland as well so if there is anyone in one of those five countries it would be good to talk to a European user as well!

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

[Kev Martin]

Dana

Great to hear they are being used in 28 Countries!  So In fact can you just give me the names and contact details of a couple of stone professionals using the system in either:

USA ( California, Georgia, Illinois or Missouri )
Belgium
Holland
France
Germany
Austria
Spain
Italy

Because between now and July I am going to all these States and Countries and it would be fair to get their opinions as well!  I have also contacted several stone pro's I know in the USA as well to see how they are getting on with them and as soon as they let me know I will pop their replies on here for you!

PS

What is the correct Retail Price for the system over here or in the US as I cannot find it on the website?

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

[Kev Martin]

The Cheetah Pucks work on concrete as well. Marble, travertine, limestone, terrazzo, granite and concrete. You don't need but the first three steps on concrete unless they want extreme high gloss.

Jesus!  I will tell Klindex, HTC and a few others that we all need to chuck our machines away and forget the last 10 + Years of reasearch they have been doing as Cheetah Pucks solve it all

Dave Carr you don't need to bother with a bespoke concrete machine just slap some Cheetah Pucks on your rotary???

Every single person who has done my course is aware that our units are 40 year old chicken sheds built on Rough cast concrete with large aggregate and then they were covered over in resin.  One of the demonstrations we do is to grind a 1M2 area of this resin covered rough cast concrete flat, harden it, colour it and then polish it to a high gloss!  So what you are saying is a set of Cheetah Pucks will do the same!  Is that correct??

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics
Marblelife Ltd

[Dana Kothrade]

Kevin

Are you part of the MarbleLife Franchise Company from the USA?

[Kev Martin]

Absolutely not and never have been. Marblelife Ltd is a UK Registered company.

When am I going to get a reply on the stone Professionals who are using your system?  I have e mailed 27 stone pros and had answers so far from the majority and not one of them uses your system or knows of any other Stone Professional that does!!!!

I also get the impression We won't be doing any independant testing in my Unit either!

Kev Martín
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

[Kev Martin]

Dana / Mike

Can we have the RRP for the Cheetah System then please both the:

2 Stage & 5 Stage?

Can you tell me what each set comprises of as well or is there a website I can get more information please?

Incidentally I was chatting to someone I know this morning!  Can you clarify where is the system is manufactured / Made / Produced?


Kev Martín
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
 

[StoneSealersHQ]

I have to agree with Kev on this, if there was to be test or head to head, it really should be on an unprepared surface, preferably somewhere neutral. Going over floors that have be done many times previously doesn't prove much.

Personally I would have chosen a cheap and nasty marble from somewhere like Tile Giant as a test, opposed to a nice stone like nero. My reasoning behind this is because cheaper stone is invariably heavily filled and a conglomerate of stone which polishes to different levels. It can be a pain to polish, reduces a systems reliance on polishing powders and can fracture very easily when de-lipping, which is also a good test of selected diamonds.

While I'm all for advancements in technology and working practices, I can't see this system immediately falling into place with my business model. I offer two systems, a (up to) four pad rhino polish for more economical projects, and a premium grind and polish up to 10000 grit resin for the more discerning customer. Maybe in time the cheetahs would fall between these?

My clientele actually revel in the fact they have guys taking lots of time and effort to achieve the finish, and get a kick out of seeing us detailing on our knees. I suppose it massages their egos a little?

Let's hope we can still see a head to head, or maybe a stone rodeo? That would be nice, get us all down, lay on a few drinks, bowls of chilli, nacho's, a bit of local media coverage and above all have some fun

[Kev Martin]

I have to agree with Kev on this, if there was to be test or head to head, it really should be on an unprepared surface, preferably somewhere neutral. Going over floors that have be done many times previously doesn't prove much.

Personally I would have chosen a cheap and nasty marble from somewhere like Tile Giant as a test, opposed to a nice stone like nero. My reasoning behind this is because cheaper stone is invariably heavily filled and a conglomerate of stone which polishes to different levels. It can be a pain to polish, reduces a systems reliance on polishing powders and can fracture very easily when de-lipping, which is also a good test of selected diamonds.

While I'm all for advancements in technology and working practices, I can't see this system immediately falling into place with my business model. I offer two systems, a (up to) four pad rhino polish for more economical projects, and a premium grind and polish up to 10000 grit resin for the more discerning customer. Maybe in time the cheetahs would fall between these?

My clientele actually revel in the fact they have guys taking lots of time and effort to achieve the finish, and get a kick out of seeing us detailing on our knees. I suppose it massages their egos a little?

Let's hope we can still see a head to head, or maybe a stone rodeo? That would be nice, get us all down, lay on a few drinks, bowls of chilli, nacho's, a bit of local media coverage and above all have some fun

Dave

I don't think they will do it!  They were offered the same challenge elsewhere across the pond.  He agreed then didn't bother turning up!
What he fails to realise is that I don't have a problem with the Cheetah Pads or the Cheetah Pucks and I am sure like Rhino Pads, Klindex Holland System and KGS they have a place in maintenance end of the market and to a certain degree polishing for clients who don't want to pay for a full grind and detailing of their floors to be restored to better than when laid!

The issue I have is their ridiculous claims like:

"This is the best and fastest system on the planet"

Because they will for want of a better word "Dupe" enough people into buying it having seen a a test floor done like at the cleaning show and then subsequently enough people buy into the system and then wonder why it does not perform as well in a real life situation!!!

For some reason he thinks I am jealous of the system and the sales it may generate when in reality I wouldn't even entertain it unless he could prove it worked in a real time situation!

Ultimately overall sales of pads and diamonds won't even be affected and even if they were sales of these don't even come to 4% of our overall sales turnover.  He would not even be able to affect 2/3rd of that 4% turnover either because they are diamonds for the Klindex Levighetor which are only available from myself. Amir or Italy direct.

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

[Jamie Pearson]

Hi Amir,

This thread has become split. Originally the thread was about Nu-Lifes "Monster Brushes" the Frankfurt brush segments. We have found they work well for deep cleaning tasks on riven surfaces. We have used Tynex brushes for years for these tasks and now with their system have the ability to choose the grade required and the frankfurt configuration allows for more head pressure.

We have still to try them on a heavily contaminated floor for removal of glues, coatings etc since our last project was cancelled. My guys have used them extensively on cleaning tasks and are now their weapon of choice on many of the jobs.

The Cheetah Pucks I have still to trial onsite so cant comment on them until I have done a few m2. I have a few different configurations coming to run on all the kit I have. Planetary, rotary and orbital.

Sandy gets home in a couple of weeks and I will pass on my regards.

 Assuming he isn't taken by pirates before he gets back!