[andyM]

Your worker has probably got pound signs in his eyes thinking about the claim he is putting in.
The reality of the situation is that even if his claim is succesful he will probably have to wait a year or maybe more before he receives a payout and it won't necessarily be for a great deal of money.
I think the average whiplash injury claim pays out around £1000-£1500.
He will probably be claiming some sort of sickness benefit which is probably about £70 or £80 a week.
But at the end of the day I think he will find that financially he would of been better off going back to work with you instead of going on the sick. 

[wightsurf]

My mate had a whiplash pay out,took three yrs.but he has to look up a lot fitting blinds which was making it worst.got doc reports.the final pay out was for lose of earnings this is where the money  gets big.75 grand final deal out of court.
I

[WISEOWL]

Just a note about your concerns about insurance for the future - obviously you have outstanding issues but I just wanted to clear up something about future premiums.

Insurance companies are not concerned with how much a final claim costs to them, they are however concerned with how many claims are made per year. Don't worry about your renewel - it will go up whether you were at fault or not and the loss of a couple of years of no claims is nothing these days - 10% at most.

I made an at fault claim last year when I backed into an X5 at the supermarket - probably a 5mph prang - but it caused £3,500 damage to her car and luckily mine was not damaged bad. Although it was in my mind dual responsibility (she had pulled out of a give way without being able to join the carriageway when I backed into her) it was pointless contesting the issue as all they do is say 50/50 - this conveniantly means I claim off her and she claims off me - whats the point? I just accepted responsibility, allowed her to have her vehicle fixed and I took the loss of no claims.

The result?

TPFT £333 increased to £392 on renewel.

[andyM]

Just a note about your concerns about insurance for the future - obviously you have outstanding issues but I just wanted to clear up something about future premiums.

Insurance companies are not concerned with how much a final claim costs to them, they are however concerned with how many claims are made per year. Don't worry about your renewel - it will go up whether you were at fault or not and the loss of a couple of years of no claims is nothing these days - 10% at most.
I made an at fault claim last year when I backed into an X5 at the supermarket - probably a 5mph prang - but it caused £3,500 damage to her car and luckily mine was not damaged bad. Although it was in my mind dual responsibility (she had pulled out of a give way without being able to join the carriageway when I backed into her) it was pointless contesting the issue as all they do is say 50/50 - this conveniantly means I claim off her and she claims off me - whats the point? I just accepted responsibility, allowed her to have her vehicle fixed and I took the loss of no claims.

The result?

TPFT £333 increased to £392 on renewel.

That's nearly a 20% increase? 

[WISEOWL]

That's nearly a 20% increase? 

I was talking about the no claims bonus.

First year can be anything up to 50% discount. Subsequent years are a discount at around 5% or sometimes less.

Considering I have had an at fault claim and therefore lost two years no claims I think thats pretty good.

[wightsurf]

I have a, No claims protecter on my insurance.
2 claims before i lose any discount 

[WISEOWL]

I have a, No claims protecter on my insurance.
2 claims before i lose any discount 

Depends how much it costs per year.

Concurrently paying a no claims protector year on year could be costly.

[wightsurf]

umm ...I wrote my van off 2 weeks ago 
So im glad i had the protetor,but what a head ache it was.

[WISEOWL]

umm ...I wrote my van off 2 weeks ago 
So im glad i had the protetor,but what a head ache it was.

Hope everything works out okay.

I had a very smooth claims process - the headache is the liability and thats where they drag their feet.

Once they feel comfortable with that it can be a little easier.

[Neil Gornall]

I have had loads of guys work for me over the years and have learned a lot along the way.

I used to feel that I had to do everything possible to hang onto them as if they left I would be screwed. However the opposite is nearly always the case.
NO ONE is irreplaceable.
If I were in your situation I would seek legal advise and do everything possible to ensure the company took the smallest hit possible and if that means letting the guy go then so be it.
You know he is pulling a fast one, he knows that in doing so it is affecting your business in a big way at a time when you need your lads to pull together.

Is he the type of guy who will be there for you in the future?

His type only see £££££££
 

[Richard iSparkle]

I have had loads of guys work for me over the years and have learned a lot along the way.

I used to feel that I had to do everything possible to hang onto them as if they left I would be screwed. However the opposite is nearly always the case.
NO ONE is irreplaceable.

 

really good to hear the views of people with a lot of experience of staff.

interestingly my friend who runs a business with 60 staff says exactly the same thing.  he says 'never believe anyone is irreplaceable.  there is always someone else available, and often someone better!

[bobby p]

you are absolutely right.  today i left my phone at home as i had so much work to do it being Friday etc and  on returning home checking my phone he has sent me texts  starting quite humble at 9 a.m. but (because i didnt reply instantly) they then got annoying, then abusive (legal proceedings imminent) and  by midday really nasty f/u messages  !  

 id got it in mind to ease him back into partime employment once i was sure he was medically 100% to return , not sure now tho !

 

[TomCrowther]

Complete lack of respect there Bobby. I would sack him right now and you would have just cause.

[Ben wood]

Bobby get well rid mate, When i went on holiday for a week i left my worker to work alone in a van. When i got back i had 11 complaint regarding him driving like a nut job, leaving gates open when finished, swearing on the phone in there gardens. I came back and sacked him on the spot, he said he was going to sue me. If i am honest we had a row a couple of days latter but that was it never heard a thing

[Roy Cauldery]

you are absolutely right.  today i left my phone at home as i had so much work to do it being Friday etc and  on returning home checking my phone he has sent me texts  starting quite humble at 9 a.m. but (because i didnt reply instantly) they then got annoying, then abusive (legal proceedings imminent) and  by midday really nasty f/u messages  !  

 id got it in mind to ease him back into partime employment once i was sure he was medically 100% to return , not sure now tho !

 

You know what to do!!Gloves are off now-record all the messages as evidence(your phone provider will be able to do this for you) and dismiss instantly
Do Not di*k around with this guy anymore-you have to take personal feelings out of the equation and make the right choice for the longevity of your business and your hard earned reputation
Good luck.Put it to bed for the weekend and dont dwell on it or you will be getting more stressed on your time off.
Face it all again with a cool head on monday morning when you have had a chance to ruminate over everything thats happened and if its gonna get nasty-time for some legal advice

regards
Roy

[Richard iSparkle]

you are absolutely right.  today i left my phone at home as i had so much work to do it being Friday etc and  on returning home checking my phone he has sent me texts  starting quite humble at 9 a.m. but (because i didnt reply instantly) they then got annoying, then abusive (legal proceedings imminent) and  by midday really nasty f/u messages  !  

 id got it in mind to ease him back into partime employment once i was sure he was medically 100% to return , not sure now tho !

 

well i think what you have here is grounds for gross misconduct.  threatening and abusive language isn't acceptable in work, and definitely not to your employer.

add it to the dangerous driving, or driving without due care and attention and you have plenty.  do it by the book though as he sounds like a nasty piece of work.  it is a real pain that he is off work sick as you will need to invite him to a disciplinary, and give him notice.

just because he cant work as a WC doesn't mean he couldn't do desk work.  you could get him back in early telling him this.  obviously, ideally he'll sack himself.

[G & M]

I would definitely get proper legal advice from a solicitor with experience in employment law. If you don't it will cost you money.

I had a foreign national working for me and I sacked him for several reasons including dangerous driving, setting up a round behind my back and a few other things. Found myself in a hearing with a rights commissioner and had to settle or else face an employment tribunal.

One of the things I got caught out on was I had not given him terms and conditions in writing. He pleaded ignorance of some of the things he had signed for me saying he misunderstood them. My solicitor thought he hadn't any chance of winning but he (the solicitor wasn't an employment law specialist)
Bottom line is don't act without doing your homework. You could probably let him return to work, say nothing and video him working while suffering from whiplash. Then you could go through the proper procedures - verbal warning, written warning and finally dismissal for * improper conduct etc*

Best Wishes and I hope he gets what is coming to him.

[Richard iSparkle]

I would definitely get proper legal advice from a solicitor with experience in employment law. If you don't it will cost you money.

I had a foreign national working for me and I sacked him for several reasons including dangerous driving, setting up a round behind my back and a few other things. Found myself in a hearing with a rights commissioner and had to settle or else face an employment tribunal.

One of the things I got caught out on was I had not given him terms and conditions in writing. He pleaded ignorance of some of the things he had signed for me saying he misunderstood them. My solicitor thought he hadn't any chance of winning but he (the solicitor wasn't an employment law specialist)
Bottom line is don't act without doing your homework. You could probably let him return to work, say nothing and video him working while suffering from whiplash. Then you could go through the proper procedures - verbal warning, written warning and finally dismissal for * improper conduct etc*

Best Wishes and I hope he gets what is coming to him.

you are quite right that you should get advice about it.

but for gross misconduct you do not need to go through the verbal, written, final warning malarky.  you can go straight to dismissal.  just get advice on how.

has he been working for you for a year yet?  if he hasnt he cannot take you for wrongful dismissal.  can only get you on grounds of discrimination (racial, sexual, sex, pregnant....)

[bobby p]

hes been with me about 6 months.he was on a trial for the first 3 months and paid cash at that time(sounds stupid of me now )  but for  about the last 3  hes been on the books properly as a worker as i insisted .  

him being hot headed and a control freak type i think he will cook his own goose as long as i  do very little and say nothing in the next couple of days. he is only employed parttime 3 days a week max (altho he had been working 5 in recent weeks) and  if it comes to it id think if i cut his hours right down hed likely leave of his own accord . however i do want rid in case he causes trouble at work or maybe fakes a fall or whatever .   im thinking that if i say im concerned about the whiplash injury (of which im absolutely sure he has none) and i will need a doctors report to say he is fine  because of the risk of anybody injured doing ladder work thats a reason i could cut his hours for now and also without a van theres a need to reduce hours worked further  

 im going to look locally for a solicitor who deals with employment law , so far iv only had hot air from my worker  but once ive more i will ring them up

he also works evenings as a delivery driver for a takeaway at the end of my road ,works for cash, im keeping an eye out to see if he is working there with this whiplash -my bet is that he is of course

[Richard iSparkle]

hes been with me about 6 months.he was on a trial for the first 3 months and paid cash at that time(sounds stupid of me now )  but for  about the last 3  hes been on the books properly as a worker as i insisted .  

him being hot headed and a control freak type i think he will cook his own goose as long as i  do very little and say nothing in the next couple of days. he is only employed parttime 3 days a week max (altho he had been working 5 in recent weeks) and  if it comes to it id think if i cut his hours right down hed likely leave of his own accord . however i do want rid in case he causes trouble at work or maybe fakes a fall or whatever .   im thinking that if i say im concerned about the whiplash injury (of which im absolutely sure he has none) and i will need a doctors report to say he is fine  because of the risk of anybody injured doing ladder work thats a reason i could cut his hours for now and also without a van theres a need to reduce hours worked further  

 im going to look locally for a solicitor who deals with employment law , so far iv only had hot air from my worker  but once ive more i will ring them up

he also works evenings as a delivery driver for a takeaway at the end of my road ,works for cash, im keeping an eye out to see if he is working there with this whiplash -my bet is that he is of course

if he's only been with you for 6 months then he cannot make a claim for wrongful dismissal.  he needs to have been working a minimun of a year to claim that.  you can call him to a meeting and then decide after the meeting to sack him on the spot.  he has no comeback.

now i dont know how this works with an injury, but so far as i understand it (my wife was in HR employment) he can only claim against you for discrimination which means usually racism, sexism, etc.  i doubt that injuries are covered by this.

obviously get advice off an expert, BUT even if you just sacked him without any reason and didnt follow the 'proper' process, having only worked for you for around 3 months, and only part time...  even if he did try and get a settlement against you, it would be pathetically small.  really not worth worrying about.

just be clear, if you are going to do it the 'proper' way, the reasons why you are sacking him for gross misconduct...  these would be i guess not taking care whilst driving company vehicle, causing a potentially serious accident as a result iof this driving, bringing your company into disrepute as a result of these actions, and then insubordination (his abusive language).

i dont think you have a lot to worry about tho now i can see more details