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poleman

  • Posts: 2854
Hosepipe Bans-Are Window Cleaners Affected?
« Reply #100 on: March 13, 2012, 03:11:31 pm »
This come up on my facebook, some good info

 http://www.ionicsystems.com/english/news.html

Perfect Windows

  • Posts: 4309
For the love of mike!

Look; what's going on is that water companies are acting now to deal with a problem that may otherwise come to a head later in the summer.  All credit to them for doing so.  By stopping the use of hosepipes for, for example, watering lawns now, they are working to ensure that there will be no need for more draconian measures later.

What you're getting from the media is this week's bunch of media hysteria.  They'll have moved onto something new next week.  Just ignore it and the headlines truly will go away.  However, the potential problem may not, so you need to make sensible plans on how to deal with it.  

By the way, here's my top tip for a happy life.  Stop reading the daily papers and watching the daily news.  Get a weekly paper or journal instead, if you must.  They tend not to have space for hysterical stories so you get a more balanced and reasoned view.  I stopped reading dailies several years ago and I've never been happier.

Vin

Lee GLS

  • Posts: 3844
Just got this off veolia water website regarding the hose pipe ban, it's at the bottom of page 11

https://central.veoliawater.co.uk/docs/drought-restrictions-explained(1).pdf

Water fed poles are frequently used by window cleaners and are within the definition of ‘anything designed, adapted or used to serve the same purpose as a hosepipe’. These systems use de-ionised water. Where mains water is the source used to create this de- ionised water, this activity is restricted.

What do you make of that?

Londoner

Just got this off veolia water website regarding the hose pipe ban, it's at the bottom of page 11

https://central.veoliawater.co.uk/docs/drought-restrictions-explained(1).pdf

Water fed poles are frequently used by window cleaners and are within the definition of ‘anything designed, adapted or used to serve the same purpose as a hosepipe’. These systems use de-ionised water. Where mains water is the source used to create this de- ionised water, this activity is restricted.

What do you make of that?

Deionised water is only tap water thats been through a series of filters. Its still tap water in their eyes. The fact that it went through a couple of processes on the way to your van doesn't change anything

The fact that you should not be commercially processing water in your home if you on a domestic tarriff  creates another area of risk which they are sure to pick up on if they question you. You can't win, they get you both ways. I can't remember offhand what the fine is

andyM

  • Posts: 6100
I think the fine is £1000.
Would that be tax deductable?  ;D
One of the Plebs

Paul Coleman

For the love of mike!

Look; what's going on is that water companies are acting now to deal with a problem that may otherwise come to a head later in the summer.  All credit to them for doing so.  By stopping the use of hosepipes for, for example, watering lawns now, they are working to ensure that there will be no need for more draconian measures later.

What you're getting from the media is this week's bunch of media hysteria.  They'll have moved onto something new next week.  Just ignore it and the headlines truly will go away.  However, the potential problem may not, so you need to make sensible plans on how to deal with it.  

By the way, here's my top tip for a happy life.  Stop reading the daily papers and watching the daily news.  Get a weekly paper or journal instead, if you must.  They tend not to have space for hysterical stories so you get a more balanced and reasoned view.  I stopped reading dailies several years ago and I've never been happier.

Vin

I quite agree about newspaper reading.  Although I take a daily sometimes, I tend to keep to the less sensationalist papers such as "i" - IMO the best daily out there for facts rather than opinions.

An interesting link that you posted.  I do remember those drought hearings a few years ago.  The first two were classics.  I imagine that the water companies thought they were up against, amongst others, a load of "thick as doodoo" window cleaners.  Craig Mawlam, and others, wiped the floor with them.  He led them down a number of tempting alleys and when they got sucked in, he made them look pretty stupid.  If ever I was in the dock, I'd rather have him represent me than any solicitor.  I analysed what he was doing, as far as I could, and it became a lot clearer to me how he had managed to build a large business or few.  Ionics has its knockers on here but the bit I find it hard to fault them on is presentation, both of their business and of the window cleaning industry at a public hearing (though I accept Craig was there for the FWC rather than for Ionics/BWCA).  My hunch is that we would pretty much be left alone until we got into, or close to, standpipe territory.  By the time it gets that far, the window cleaners' case is far more difficult to argue because you could be choosing between having drinking water/failure of public water supply versus cleaning windows by pole.
Back in the 80s, Margaret "Tina" Thatcher's mantra was "One man's pay rise is another man's job loss.".  It is both appalling and preventable that it could later become "One man's bath is another man's job loss."

If things do end up getting worse, I think the water companies would be surprised to find that many window cleaners can be pretty accommodating.  Personally, to help prevent a crisis, I would be open to squeegeeing reachable windows.  I would also be open to running on resin only even though I receive hard water.  Those two measures alone could potentially achieve a 75% reduction in water usage.  OK it would cost me more to run my business plus I would earn less (or work longer for the same) but I'm not such an ogre that I wouldn't be prepared to do my bit.

steve freeman

  • Posts: 134
most water companies have this on their website

Any activities that are necessary for health and safety reasons (i.e. necessary to remove or minimise any risk to human or animal health/safety or prevents/control the spread of causative agents of disease).

H&s was changed regarding ladders so youll find that as we now need to use water fed poles because of the change in H&S and is detrimental to your business then you should be able to carry on as normal.

You can still clean a car with a bucket
You can still play gold on brown lawns
You can still clean your driveway with a broom.

We cannot use ladders to clean windows as the H&S was changed no matter what the debates about that are its fact .

Pj

  • Posts: 477
Hosepipe ban for 20 million in next 2-4 weeks.  Even though this won't restrict us legally, residential customers will be feeling concientious about water conservation.

As I posted at the outset above, we won't be restricted legally.

I hope they don't take this debate up too soon, those of us who filter reasonable large quantities of water from home also produce a lot of waste water.  Now I know that goes down your drain, but wouldn't it make more sense to just let it run on our gardens, and next doors', and next door to them too?
Or maybe I'm missing something..

Steve_c

Bulletin issued by Ionics/BWCA
« Reply #108 on: March 13, 2012, 06:35:54 pm »

rosskesava

  • Posts: 17015
This is old technology can can easily be adapted for the UK but money for the shareholders come first.


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/sahara-forest-project-that-breathes-life-into-deserts-claims-climate-week-2012-award.html
Just chant..... Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. It's beats chanting Tory Tory or Labour Labour.

windiewasher

  • Posts: 4393
I will carry on wfp.all my custies already no that ladders are banned so they will be happy for me to wfp.
Takings off all first cleans till march 7th 2014
October  total=  cleaned  extra per month
November = cleaned extra per month
Total £  so far.

stuart mc

  • Posts: 7775
Re: Bulletin issued by Ionics/BWCA
« Reply #111 on: March 13, 2012, 07:22:35 pm »
good link, thanks steve

gary999

  • Posts: 8156
Re: its official
« Reply #112 on: March 13, 2012, 07:24:02 pm »
i spoke to severn trent today and they say there will be NO hose ban this year for severn trent areas.
and even if there was it would not effect water fed pole window cleaners.
just goes to show the media jumping on it again fear mongering spreading all there bull pooe .

thats because most of our water is piped from wales..if you arenot in a severn trent area
in the midlands you could be in trouble by the time that summer arrives

Londoner

Re: better start signing on boys
« Reply #113 on: March 13, 2012, 07:29:46 pm »
Anyone would think it's a foregone conclusion that it's never going to rain.

In the history of the UK, just how many stage 3 drought orders (or the equivalent) have there been?

I'm not saying it's impossible but the grounds of probability are it won't and anyway, if it's going to happen, it will, and if it won't, it won't. Endlessly chewing the chewed won't change a thing.

I'll just go back to cleaning those jobs that can be done trad. If you can't do that and you're worried, better start saving every penny now, think about what can be sold at boot markets and what luxuries can either be got rid of or canceled. Spend less on food, less on beer or f*gs, drive more carefully and save on petrol, don't buy any takeaways, or what ever. Most people can find ways to spend less but most don't want to or won't.

I was speaking to another local window cleaner about the drought and all that and he was worried but when I said about flogging his 3 year old car if needs be, he flatly refused. I've a van for work and a car, and if needs be, the car will be the first thing go.

Instead of worrying, £1 000 fines and all that junk rubbish 'what if' stuff, make some plans instead.

Rant over.

I have a cunning plan...............
Cleaning with a trolley or a backpack will draw a whole lot less attention to yourself than having yellow hoses draped across the pavements for all to see. Using a clear 6mm hose from the trolley won't show up so much. Things of that sort and a lot more trad should get us through. It will be slower of course but you have to think not only about the loss of income. You have to think about losing customers too.

Pj

  • Posts: 477
I will carry on wfp.all my custies already no that ladders are banned so they will be happy for me to wfp.

Well this is a big part of the problem - misinformation, ladders are not banned!

Mr. S

  • Posts: 418
Re: Bulletin issued by Ionics/BWCA
« Reply #115 on: March 13, 2012, 07:36:22 pm »
Cheers Steve! Read this with much interest as H & S regulations would have been my argument too! I also have a koi pond though, which is classed apparently as livestock and not affected by a drought order, so if things were to come on top i could say i was filtering the waste pond water to clean windows! ;D ;D

carl stanton

  • Posts: 821
Re: Bulletin issued by Ionics/BWCA
« Reply #116 on: March 13, 2012, 07:38:08 pm »
good stuff, nice info

CLEANCARE WC

  • Posts: 4454
Just got this off veolia water website regarding the hose pipe ban, it's at the bottom of page 11

https://central.veoliawater.co.uk/docs/drought-restrictions-explained(1).pdf

Water fed poles are frequently used by window cleaners and are within the definition of ‘anything designed, adapted or used to serve the same purpose as a hosepipe’. These systems use de-ionised water. Where mains water is the source used to create this de- ionised water, this activity is restricted.

What do you make of that?

THAT DOES NOT SOUND GOOD  :o
WE CLEAN BY FAITH, NOT BY SIGHT WITH WATER FED POLE WHEN WORKING AT HEIGHT.

Steve_c

Re: Bulletin issued by Ionics/BWCA
« Reply #118 on: March 13, 2012, 08:00:10 pm »
No problem fellers, hope it all helps.

rosskesava

  • Posts: 17015
Re: Bulletin issued by Ionics/BWCA
« Reply #119 on: March 13, 2012, 08:18:50 pm »
Interesting. Thanks for posting that.

It's also interesting the amount of guess work and speculation on some other threads regarding the same topic.
Just chant..... Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. It's beats chanting Tory Tory or Labour Labour.