[J. Domingos]

Ok. Fair enough,... however seems to me the only way in our systems to read pressure it's not the controller itself, but the mechanic adjustment, (little screw) inside the pressure switch on our pumps... you can adjust it, but please don't do it, because was calibrated in the factory and can damage the pump. To read any flow the system needs a kind of sensor, and they are not cheap. So end of this story, a tap on your pole, and a controller to set up the pump, it's the simplest way.

[Mike #1]

I would rather pay £100 for something tried and tested ,  than something homemade with a guarantee of been a window cleaner for 4 yrs .  MIKE

[Spruce]

I would rather pay £100 for something tried and tested ,  than something homemade with a guarantee of been a window cleaner for 4 yrs .  MIKE

Hi Mike

As I said earlier, I don't believe Mr Domingos understands how a controller is designed and from the previous replies he not interested in listening to anyone's opinion either.

.... seems to me the only way in our systems to read pressure it's not the controller itself, but the mechanic adjustment, (little screw) inside the pressure switch on our pumps... you can adjust it, but please don't do it, because was calibrated in the factory and can damage the pump. To read any flow the system needs a kind of sensor, and they are not cheap. So end of this story, a tap on your pole, and a controller to set up the pump, it's the simplest way.

He has convinced himself that it will work, made a couple, and then advertised them on Ebay. To get things moving he then puts a cheeky post on here with the heading - A great Water Pump Controller... to promote his own product.

To borrow one of Gold's sayings - he has shot an arrow at the barn door and then painted the target around the arrow afterwards.

However, I see that his listing has attracted 1 bid, so there is someone else out there who doesn't understand controllers either and that has not seen this thread.

As I said earlier, I'm all for new ideas and products to help us make life easier, but IMHO this isn't one of them. Like you I would go for something that costs more from a reputable company.

Spruce.

[carl stanton]

this one looks well made, any better?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pump-flow-controller-water-fed-pole-window-cleaning-/160755157170?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DDLSL%252BSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D300652283849%252B300652283849%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6793973490427492146#ht_500wt_1287

[Nathanael Jones]

As I said earlier, I don't believe Mr Domingos understands how a controller is designed and from the previous replies he not interested in listening to anyone's opinion either.

Spruce,.. i'm thinking it might be you who doesn't really understand. Have you ever used a controller without dead end detection? I have, and actually prefer it! I'm currently using an old analog pure freedom controller which does not have dead end detection, it just relies on the pumps pressure switch. The controller & pump are both near 5 years old & have never let me down once!

While I think his controller is a bit too ugly for me to buy personally,.. the electronics behind these controllers are VERY simple. The only difference between how J domingos controller & the ones you're used to work,is that his does not use dead end detection --- and that isn't a bad thing!!

Look back over the forum & count how many posts there are about controller calibration problems, pressure problems, working with 8mm hose but not 6mm etc etc. Then compare that to the number of "My pressure switch has broken" posts,.. pressure switches win I assure you!

Pressure switches are the way the pumps are designed to work, and its a system that works flawlessly & with a lot less problems & hassles than dead end detection causes.

[Spruce]

this one looks well made, any better?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pump-flow-controller-water-fed-pole-window-cleaning-/160755157170?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DDLSL%252BSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D300652283849%252B300652283849%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6793973490427492146#ht_500wt_1287

I think this is the same idea as Mr Domingos' unit. I see he has competition.

I've sent a question to ask about pressure setting on this unit so await a reply.

Personally, I think they have seen a gap in the market for an analogue controller and jumped in to make one without understanding all the principles behind neccessity for it.
If you want to buy an analogue controller, then the new Spring controller Gardiners and a few others have in stock seems to tick the boxes. Its a straight forward manual speed/flow controller with a manually adjustable electronic pressure regulator in one.
I'd spend £100.00 for one of those than waste £50.00 on one of these.

It's harsh, but that's the reality.

Spruce  

[Nathanael Jones]

That one looks much better,.. but still not right.

I've always thought that having a controller that has to be opened up to either secure it to the van plylining or to change a fuse is a bit dopey. Gaskets can be lost or not replaced in their perfect position,.. every time you open the unit there's a small chance it won't be waterproof when you close it again. So I like the enclosure that doesn't need to be opened (I have a couple of these myself for a similar project at the mo) to secure this to the van wall,.. but why not have the fuse externally?

I'd go as far as potting/encapsulating all the internal electronics to keep the moisture out as well,..

this one looks well made, any better?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pump-flow-controller-water-fed-pole-window-cleaning-/160755157170?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DDLSL%252BSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D300652283849%252B300652283849%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6793973490427492146#ht_500wt_1287

[CLEANCARE WC]

I THINK THAT MR DOMINGOS UNIT LOOKS AND WILL PROB WORK OK TOO, BUT NEEDS TO BE AROUND THE £25-£30 MARK TO TEMPT ME AWAY FROM THE MAINSTREAM OPTIONS.

[Spruce]

As I said earlier, I don't believe Mr Domingos understands how a controller is designed and from the previous replies he not interested in listening to anyone's opinion either.

Spruce,.. i'm thinking it might be you who doesn't really understand. Have you ever used a controller without dead end detection? I have, and actually prefer it! I'm currently using an old analog pure freedom controller which does not have dead end detection, it just relies on the pumps pressure switch. The controller & pump are both near 5 years old & have never let me down once!

While I think his controller is a bit too ugly for me to buy personally,.. the electronics behind these controllers are VERY simple. The only difference between how J domingos controller & the ones you're used to work,is that his does not use dead end detection --- and that isn't a bad thing!!

Look back over the forum & count how many posts there are about controller calibration problems, pressure problems, working with 8mm hose but not 6mm etc etc. Then compare that to the number of "My pressure switch has broken" posts,.. pressure switches win I assure you!

Pressure switches are the way the pumps are designed to work, and its a system that works flawlessly & with a lot less problems & hassles than dead end detection causes.

Hi Nat

To answer your question honestly - no I haven't.

We originally used Shurflo pumps on there own and we kept burning out switches as the pumps kept cycling. We didn't know about cheap microswitch replacements from Maplins then. Williamsons supplied me a 3.8 litre pump to try to reduce cycling on our system, but once we got the Mk2 analogue Varistreams, our problems stopped.

My gripe with Mr Domingos is that he doesn't understand how the pressure switch works. As I highlighted earlier, he recommends the controller be connected through the pressure switch as added protection. So he is saying that you actually don't need to have it wired through the pressure switch at all (if your pump hasn't got one). Then I ask how he envisages switching the pump off when the tap is turned off?

IMHO he is winging his way through this which doesn't help others who have no experience with controllers.

Actually, had he made it clear from the begining how it works I wouldn't have thought anything more of it. I wouldn't have bought one due to the experience we had with failed switches, but I know there are plenty out there, including you, who prefer their systems to work this way. That's fine.

Spruce

[Dougaldum]

...with a new design, a Great Pump Controller. Maybe have no brand name,... but it's a strong and reliable piece of equipment
have a look,... and happy biding.

- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300672216939?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_731wt_1344 

- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300672220183?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_793wt_1344
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-30A-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-HHO-RC-Controller-/290516868326?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item43a4279ce6

during this weekend I will put on sale, what I call Pole Kits ... a must have accessory for your pole,  to make your everyday live more easy and to save money to. (see, Seller Information... under of - See other items)  

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-30A-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-HHO-RC-Controller-/290516868326?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item43a4279ce6 this is the same one

[rosskesava]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-30A-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-HHO-RC-Controller-/290516868326?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item43a4279ce6 this is the same one

Certainly seems that way.

So, perhaps the box of tricks on offer is just a just variable rheostat for the motor?

And when the tap on the hose is switched off, the pump, when it reaches it's pressure cut off point, does it's job.

Deliberately confuse the two as one, with a muddled writeup, and lo and behold, a flow controler.

[Spruce]

...with a new design, a Great Pump Controller. Maybe have no brand name,... but it's a strong and reliable piece of equipment
have a look,... and happy biding.

- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300672216939?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_731wt_1344 

- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300672220183?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_793wt_1344
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-30A-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-HHO-RC-Controller-/290516868326?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item43a4279ce6

during this weekend I will put on sale, what I call Pole Kits ... a must have accessory for your pole,  to make your everyday live more easy and to save money to. (see, Seller Information... under of - See other items)  

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-30A-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-HHO-RC-Controller-/290516868326?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item43a4279ce6 this is the same one

Not unless the components are taken out of that box as the box is 126mm wide.

[Spruce]

this one looks well made, any better?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pump-flow-controller-water-fed-pole-window-cleaning-/160755157170?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DDLSL%252BSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D300652283849%252B300652283849%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6793973490427492146#ht_500wt_1287

Its a speed controller so you connect the unit up via your pumps existing pressure switch as use it like Nat does. This time the Ebay site's owner did seem to know what he was talking about 
Spruce

[dd]

Nathaniel

If you ever bring a flow controller to the market I would be interested.

[Nathanael Jones]

Nathaniel

If you ever bring a flow controller to the market I would be interested.

I'm working on 2 ranges at the moment (been in development for near 2 years now).

The first range will be fancy & digital, and will have models from the most basic controller up to ones with frost protection & remote control features built in.

The second range will be analog, but again with basic/frost protect/remote control models.

NONE of the controllers I'm getting built will feature dead end detection,.. I just feel its a very complex solution to a very simple problem, & pressure switches just work better. My next campaign will be to convince you all that 60psi pumps are better suited to WFP than 100psi ones!

Prices for controllers will start at £53.50 +P&P for the basic analog model, and all units will come with a 12 month warranty, though I don't expect it to be used very often as these units should be almost bomb proof the way I'm getting them built. 

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

I much prefer DE detection rather than the pumps pressure switch. I can set DE MUCH more accurately on a varistream & also alter it much easier too.

My MKI digital varistream works flawlessly, never missed a beat in about 4+ years!

I'm led to believe though that the newest versions of the Varistream are not as good?

[Spruce]

Nathaniel

If you ever bring a flow controller to the market I would be interested.

I'm working on 2 ranges at the moment (been in development for near 2 years now).

The first range will be fancy & digital, and will have models from the most basic controller up to ones with frost protection & remote control features built in.

The second range will be analog, but again with basic/frost protect/remote control models.

NONE of the controllers I'm getting built will feature dead end detection,.. I just feel its a very complex solution to a very simple problem, & pressure switches just work better. My next campaign will be to convince you all that 60psi pumps are better suited to WFP than 100psi ones!

Prices for controllers will start at £53.50 +P&P for the basic analog model, and all units will come with a 12 month warranty, though I don't expect it to be used very often as these units should be almost bomb proof the way I'm getting them built. 

But won't that create more chances of pump cycling and put more stress on the Pressure switch? When I first started WPF the pumps were moving from 65psi to 100. I only had 1 65psi pump which got sold with a pump box and all the others have been 100psi pumps. I think the 65 psi Shurflo pumps are still available, but are more expensive.

Why do you feel a 60 is the right way to go?

From my own experience I did have my Varistream cutoff set at the right pressure for me and when I put a pressure gauge on it, it was cutting out at 55psi.

One of the problems I found with the Varistream, and I guess this must also apply to others, is the starting delay that sometimes occurs which you won't get with your pressure switch linked controller. However, this hasn't bothered me with the last lot of minibore supplied by Gardiners. It is of softer construction and so swells abit and acts like an expansion chamber, so the delay in the electonic isn't noticeable any longer

Spruce

[J. Domingos]

Well done,
Nathanael Jones
looks like I'm not the only one in the business  .
Thank's for sharing your knowledge with us. Better that... than to criticize the work of others.

[Nathanael Jones]

But won't that create more chances of pump cycling and put more stress on the Pressure switch? When I first started WPF the pumps were moving from 65psi to 100. I only had 1 65psi pump which got sold with a pump box and all the others have been 100psi pumps. I think the 65 psi Shurflo pumps are still available, but are more expensive.

Why do you feel a 60 is the right way to go?


Spruce

Firstly I should just say for the doubters that 60psi of pressure will pump water over 120' vertically,.. so even if you're going for the WFP world record, its plenty powerful enough.

If you have a 60psi pump instead of 100psi you'll get the following benefits:

1. Your pump is under less strain, so it will last longer.
2. Your pump will shut off sooner when you stop the water,.. slight saving on battery power.
3. Your pump AND heater will shut off sooner when you stop the water,.. reduces the chance of overheating issues if you use a gas heater.
4. Less chance of leaks or burst pipes/connectors.
5. With less leaks comes less cycling of the pump (The pump will only cycle if the pressure drops,.. remove leaks & you remove this problem)


A standard 100psi shurflo pump can be adjusted down as low as 60psi. All you need is an alan key,. pop it in the hole in the bottom of the pressure switch (the bottom of the black plastic end of the pump) & turn anti-clockwise. 

[Spruce]

But won't that create more chances of pump cycling and put more stress on the Pressure switch? When I first started WPF the pumps were moving from 65psi to 100. I only had 1 65psi pump which got sold with a pump box and all the others have been 100psi pumps. I think the 65 psi Shurflo pumps are still available, but are more expensive.

Why do you feel a 60 is the right way to go?


Spruce

Firstly I should just say for the doubters that 60psi of pressure will pump water over 120' vertically,.. so even if you're going for the WFP world record, its plenty powerful enough.

If you have a 60psi pump instead of 100psi you'll get the following benefits:

1. Your pump is under less strain, so it will last longer.
2. Your pump will shut off sooner when you stop the water,.. slight saving on battery power.
3. Your pump AND heater will shut off sooner when you stop the water,.. reduces the chance of overheating issues if you use a gas heater.
4. Less chance of leaks or burst pipes/connectors.
5. With less leaks comes less cycling of the pump (The pump will only cycle if the pressure drops,.. remove leaks & you remove this problem)


A standard 100psi shurflo pump can be adjusted down as low as 60psi. All you need is an alan key,. pop it in the hole in the bottom of the pressure switch (the bottom of the black plastic end of the pump) & turn anti-clockwise.  

Thanks for your reply and input.