[GDwindowcleaning]

From what i have seen it seems the nationals run at a very tight margin and offer what on paper seems to be value for money, but whether they deliver that value is another story all together...

Watched a guy do our local tesco the other day, can only say he was shocking....

As a coop it would have to be pushed on the quality of the work and reliable regular cleaning or you would have to work for less. Only two options....

The idea could work but i would worry about the internal politics of a coop, its too easy for someone who is not happy to throw a spanner in the works....

It would work as a stand alone business though if done correctly.

[Lee Burbidge]

it is  a good idea, but wouldnt work,  simple because who would control areas,  ie dave morris and dean cover large areas,  if they pay the same price as someone else and get more work then this is unfair,

who will be contact with the nationals  who will handle the money

this is what national window cleaner thing is hoping to get to, but i think it is open to, to much back handers and trouble 

Great points. I would say that as a co-operative we could bid for enough work for every one. It would need carful thinking and planning. Mr Morris could have all the Boots branches in his area for example, somebody else could have Dunelm Mills and maybe in that same area and a collection of smaller companies looking after the Virgin Stores in the same area?? I would have to put my thinking cap on for it.

The Co-Operative can be a comittee where anyone who is interested does a 'term' after a vote maybe.

The money would be handle by the comittee.

 

[Lee Burbidge]

its a good idea but as said would be very hard to put in place, if someone managed to do it then yes i would join

Yeah, me too. Its just the nuts and bolts to work out isnt it.

[Lee Burbidge]

Hi,

That's already one of the long term goals of Nationwide Window Cleaners. It's something we feel is achievable but it is going to take time to get enough coverage across all of the UK.

Instead of squeezing the prices all contractors would be at the same level of the sub-contract ladder. Without us taking any value out of the contract. We have been talking to two nationals now and as you mentioned the buyers do like the appeal of a "co-operative" bunch of window cleaners providing a national coverage, with local service.

But you can't take on a national contract with Debenhams for instance and then tell them that you can't actually cover x , y, and z towns yet.

This time next year we may have it sorted. But one thing I will say is that it's not without it's problems...

Cheers,

Huw

Can you email me lburbidgehighshine@yahoo.com

[Lee Burbidge]

The only thing that the nationals have got going for them is a single billing system.

All of the billing is simplified, so the national client recieves the minimum ammount of paperwork to process.

On that basis the national cleaner will point out that it is cheaper to proces one bill than it is to process several hundered, produced by individual cleaners.

Time and time again people take on national contracts, only to fail to provide a quality of service across the board. What then happens is that individual stores become so filthy that the manager will take on a local windie simply to get the job done. Before long bells ring in the head office and the national cleaner is found out to have been billing for work that hasn't been done and is sacked.

The stores are then picked up by local windies across the land as they become filthy, and the individual manager is forced to do something about it.

National company is then aproached by an ambitious cleaner and the whole cycle starts again.

It has happened with all of the national chains at one time or another.

Unfortunatly for me I just lost a favourite, but I won't make it easy for them to keep it. It will become a thorn in the side of whoever has taken it on.   

A Co-Operative would produce one bill.

[Lee Burbidge]

It will never work

Who is going to work for the cooperative in gaining the work

You will need t retain an excellent business development manager, back room staff to process
Paperwork, deal with dockets, run the help desk,

If someone is clever enough to gain a £2mill contract , do you think
They won't be tempted in winning it for there own company and not for
The cooperative

Who is going to manage the areas, it would  be impossible to allocate
All the work to 1000 window different window cleaners and expect all paperwork back each month
without major cock ups

Hi Dave. This idea is not without its problems. A co-operative would have everything in place. A 2 million pound contract could be stolen I guess but with the right paper work where non-disclosure and fair trading is written into memebership then maybe that would be an option.
If you can win one 2 million contract you can win more. There would be enough money in the kitty to defend all its members against that type of thing.

I had a semi national contract. This company I  had 2 sites in Sheffield, 1 in Redditch, 1 in Worcester, 1 in Leicester, Nottingham, Coventry, Derby and somewhere I have forgotton now on the way to Sheffield. And another two???

I was offered the whole country!! but I turned it down. I told him that I would not be able to keep an eye on Scotland as well as the South Coast

I managed all the others by enlisting local window cleaners and I did some local to me by myself. And it was just me, no one else to fall back on.

If I could do that in such a small degree, I wonder if that could be scaled up. A comittee would be best I think and every memeber would own the Co-Op and its assests.

[Lee Burbidge]

From what i have seen it seems the nationals run at a very tight margin and offer what on paper seems to be value for money, but whether they deliver that value is another story all together...

Watched a guy do our local tesco the other day, can only say he was shocking....

As a coop it would have to be pushed on the quality of the work and reliable regular cleaning or you would have to work for less. Only two options....

The idea could work but i would worry about the internal politics of a coop, its too easy for someone who is not happy to throw a spanner in the works....

It would work as a stand alone business though if done correctly.

Ok that is interesting. I see the point. Other window cleaners might say, well thats what the Nationals do? What do you think?

[GDwindowcleaning]

If it was ran as a coop the commitee would have to spend a huge amount of their valuable time running things, the commitee could be spread all over the uk so meetings would be a nightmare. They would either have to do it for free or draw a salary which would have to be paid for somehow.

I think its a great idea in priciple but will people really commit to it?

Where would the coop stand on taking work from members or non members?

For me a coop is not the right structure for it to work long term...

[GDwindowcleaning]

The nationals might sell a great service but do they deliver it? Would be good to have a chat at some point lee....

Cant get the magazine to open on my phone, any ideas?

[Pope vader]

it is  a good idea, but wouldnt work,  simple because who would control areas,  ie dave morris and dean cover large areas,  if they pay the same price as someone else and get more work then this is unfair,

who will be contact with the nationals  who will handle the money

this is what national window cleaner thing is hoping to get to, but i think it is open to, to much back handers and trouble 

Great points. I would say that as a co-operative we could bid for enough work for every one. It would need carful thinking and planning. Mr Morris could have all the Boots branches in his area for example, somebody else could have Dunelm Mills and maybe in that same area and a collection of smaller companies looking after the Virgin Stores in the same area?? I would have to put my thinking cap on for it.

The Co-Operative can be a comittee where anyone who is interested does a 'term' after a vote maybe.

The money would be handle by the comittee.

 

to me this would be unfair,  and to be honest i think the like of dave would end up with it all,  as if you only had certain branches of chains the traveling wouldnt be worth it and then they wouldnt get done and dave would end up with them all, and would end up like it is now,  big boys running everything

[Catherine10]

I think like Dave said it would be a question of staff such as admin, BDM, and an expert in tender writing.

[Window Washers]

Hi Ian,

We think it's possible, but only time will tell. It's a way off yet and part of Phase 2, currently 90% of the mini-sites are page one. It's one thing getting the sites there in the first place but it's another thing keeping them there long term as you will know.

But even if they are each on page one it doesn't mean you are going to get tons of enquiries unless people search. But it's a decent bit of extra marketing for people.

I had had a couple of beers last night so I may have been suffering from delusions of grandeur!

Cheers,

Huw

lol good man enjoy it, I love the competition in my areas 

[richard jagger]

Get window cleaner to work together.Read this forum they cannot agree on anything.WE are not even a industry or joined together in anyway.You been on the happy pipe again.

[mikecam]

I had a semi national contract. This company I  had 2 sites in Sheffield, 1 in Redditch, 1 in Worcester, 1 in Leicester, Nottingham, Coventry, Derby and somewhere I have forgotton now on the way to Sheffield. And another two???

I was offered the whole country!! but I turned it down. I told him that I would not be able to keep an eye on Scotland as well as the South Coast

Lee, how many vehicles/ staff do you run? Are you aiming this soley at 'the local window cleaners' i.e sole traders, or larger companies? Like you say, you where nearly there, but not quite, maybe just need a bit of help?
 I'm unclear whether you need help from a few like minded  larger companies to compete on a National level, or whether you actually mean what you say in your OP that you are interested in helping 'local window cleaners' attain business they might otherwise not be able to do unless on a subcontract basis? Can you make this any clearer?
 On a practical note, your website links to Ionics vids do not work they've disabled embedding !!!! And who is the Russian guy asking your employee if his boss is any good? !!! 

[Pope vader]

he prob means local window cleaner,  then after a few months of chasing loads of different invoices do what every other national does and goes with 2/3 suppliers and has a easier life

[Lee Burbidge]

I had a semi national contract. This company I  had 2 sites in Sheffield, 1 in Redditch, 1 in Worcester, 1 in Leicester, Nottingham, Coventry, Derby and somewhere I have forgotton now on the way to Sheffield. And another two???

I was offered the whole country!! but I turned it down. I told him that I would not be able to keep an eye on Scotland as well as the South Coast

Lee, how many vehicles/ staff do you run? Are you aiming this soley at 'the local window cleaners' i.e sole traders, or larger companies? Like you say, you where nearly there, but not quite, maybe just need a bit of help?
 I'm unclear whether you need help from a few like minded  larger companies to compete on a National level, or whether you actually mean what you say in your OP that you are interested in helping 'local window cleaners' attain business they might otherwise not be able to do unless on a subcontract basis? Can you make this any clearer?
 On a practical note, your website links to Ionics vids do not work they've disabled embedding !!!! And who is the Russian guy asking your employee if his boss is any good? !!! 

Yeah that is exactly right. I up for helping window cleaners getting more work. My example of the contract I mentioned was a demonstration of how someone on there own could manage it.

I am aware on Ionics embedding code issue. I have been speaking with them about it, but, to be honest I have been snowed under with other stuff at the moment. 

[Lee Burbidge]

he prob means local window cleaner,  then after a few months of chasing loads of different invoices do what every other national does and goes with 2/3 suppliers and has a easier life

No that's not it. This topic was to open up conversation on how best to tackle the Nationals and take back work for the local window cleaners if it could be done.
My motives has been always to help window cleaners. Probably why I came up with a free magazine for us all. No that's not completely true. My first thought was a selfish one. I wanted to read a good window cleaning mag. I couldnt find one, so I made one. Then next I thought I would make it free for all window cleaners. I know how we all watch our pennies.

[Lee Burbidge]

he prob means local window cleaner,  then after a few months of chasing loads of different invoices do what every other national does and goes with 2/3 suppliers and has a easier life

Just one point on chasing different invoices. The co op idea wouldnt chase invoices. The local window cleaners would submit invoices to th co op in the normal way and the co op would pay the invoices to the window cleaner. The client would get just one invoice which the co op would chase. 

[Pope vader]

good luck with it lee, but i dont think it could work as there are too many people who would stab others in the back just to get jobs

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Personally I don't think we can compete with the big nationals for various reasons regarding big chain stores etc. For one, I wouldn't do it for what they charge per store unless I had them all in my area (which would be very unlikely).

I don't know if I think differently to others but here's a recent example- Mate of mine who's a "commercial man"

McDonald's building- 3 times per week @ £20 per clean, takes an hour to do in & out & is ten miles from his home. Has to be done between 5 & 6am. That's THIRTEEN visits per month for £260! He has also let on since gaining this work that the insides are a real pain because of the greasy finger/hand marks.

Now, one of these days per week, he has other work in the area, the other two days he hasn't.


This is how I see it- I can easily beat that rate on houses, don't have to get up at 4am, can be more flexible with my times & I have client loyalty thrown in!

To top it off, he was over the moon with this contract!!

I think it's crap!