[Johnny B]

Hi Steve,

1. £10 is reasonable to charge for a 3 bed semi. £8 is a bit on the low side, but as you are new don't worry too much. When you gain more experience and confidence you will get a feel for what your time is worth, and adjust your prices accordingly.

2. What size cloths do you use? I use large or jumbo sized cloths (approx 24 inch). As I am also building my new window cleaning business up following a relocation, many of my jobs are at the first clean stage. I use one damp cloth to wipe the frames, and if the windows are really bad, I wipe them with the same cloth. I then mop and squeegee the windows, then detail with a clean cloth. I change the damp cloth when it is too dirty to be effective, and use the 'detailing' cloth in its place, and introduce a fresh cloth for detailing. Hope this makes sense. I use maybe 4 cloths a day using this method.   

3. I always ensure the frames are cleaned first. Yes it takes longer the first time, but you reap the benefits of this on subsequent cleans, when a quick wipe is all that is necessary.

4. I have been in this game for nearly 15 years, and am by most peoples' standards, still very slow, and because I am extremely thorough (OCDish) I am not likely to get any quicker!. This doesn't worry me though, as I can still make a reasonable living just doing 8-10 houses a day. Most people get noticeably quicker within a few months, and I am sure you will be one of those, especially once you get into repeat cleans.

Well done Steve. You've made a good start. Keep it going.

John

[Steve kiff]

Thanks John for your answers to my questions.
I too am quite OCD ish and the windows I'm doing I'm making sure they are perfect, lol.

My micro fibre clothes are 16x 16 and as I have just started I think I'm using more than i need, however I'm hopeing to cut that usage down some what.

It's hard work using a ladder , however I'm really enjoying it and taking pride in my work. I think I will start charging £10 per 3 bed semi as my standard is extremely high.

Mote canvassing tomorrow , hopefully get at least 4 more on the books then back to work Monday morning earning money for someone else.

Glad I started a window cleaning business , very excited right now.

[Johnny B]

Steve,

Hope the canvassing goes well tomorrow. It's a numbers game as you no doubt know. The more you knock, the more you will find. It is a fact that there are more good customers out there than good window cleaners. When your standards are high, you can be sure that your appreciative customers will refer you to their family, friends and neighbours (if the latter don't see you first!) When this starts to happen, you will gain all the more satisfaction in knowing that your hard work is being recognized and will be rewarded accordingly.

John

 

[red star]

Try sticking a leaflet or 2 around your area churches cafes librarys etc usually pick up a few a month from this

[red star]

Also costa coffee now have a local business pin board in there shops costs nout stick a few flyers in there

[CLEANCARE WC]

Gav,  I kinda like you, you come across as a bot of a comedian and I'm sitting here having a chuckle to myself!

400 houses and they all said yes! Lol, how nice would that be?  To be honest in no real rush really.  I have a full time job as a SDM for an industrial cleaning company, however I have had enough working long hours andining someone else pocket!  I need my own success story and I'm gonna make it happen.

I had 5000 leaflets printed up for £28 quid ! 500 business cards for £20 quid!  All my equipment including ladders , roof rack etc, another £200 quid!  I have been leaflet dropping before work and after work.  I now have 12 custys on my books that I'm very happy about.  All window cleaning to take place on Saturday & Sunday so I can hopefully be seen by others.  Target is 200 custys by may next year, just to be realistic. If I get more then happy dayz.  As soon as I have the 200 custys on the books I'll be investing in a WFP and transit connect me thinks. 

12 custys ain't gonna pay the bills but I tell you something I'm on a mission to reach 200!  I'm definitely going for it!  Only 1 person I know has tried putting me off windy cleaning by saying eveything he can to put me off!  I recon hes just doing it because he can't do it himself!

Wish me luck gentlemen I'm on a mission to succeed !   

hi steve where did you get these done?

[Steve kiff]

Look on eBay.  They even designed my leaflets for me 

User Id   Andyprinter1

Phone number  01902448736

5000 A5   £28 + 6 quid delivery

[CLEANCARE WC]

thanks steve

[colley614]

Hi Steve,

Have you got a limited amount of time to go canvassing? I would aim at getting 10 custards on your books tomorrow if I were you! Seens as your not depending on the income why don't you tell everyone that if they get you another regular job that you will do their house for free after the third clean of the house they got you?

Everyone likes a freebie don't they?

[Paul Coleman]

Totally agree Paul Coleman, so many fall foul of not realising what costs are involved.
No matter what money you earn, always put 25% away for tax and NI and don't touch it.

Steve Kiff: You have started picking up customers at the hardest time of year, so well done for that. If you can do it now, it will be so much easier come the spring.

We all know how it is when you start and yes you go cheap to get work, but as Paul says you have to be realistic.
£8 per house x 200 = £1600 x11(if monthly cleans)=£17600 take off tax, business overheads etc etc and look at what you have left to pay your household costs....not a lot
add on just £2.00 per house
£10 x 200=£2000 x 11 =£22000, just for £2.00 extra per house you have over £4k more.
£10 for a 3 bed semi is still a really good price for the customer.

A tip for the spring, when quoting for people and they say I did have a cleaner, but haven't seen him since October, add £2 to the price you had in mind. If they say that is more expensive than the last one, just say yes but I provide an all year round service and don't let you down in the winter. You can always come down on price if you want to, but very rarely get the oppotunity to go up!

Good post Helen.  Personally, I have found that I can get away with putting rather less than 25% away for tax/NI.  The tax and NI (total of about 31% + that £30ish per quarter) doesn't start clocking up until after I've turned a profit of c.£6k.  Also, those business expenses eat into the turnover a bit more heavily than most because rent and water is pushing £2k a year.  Then there is the diesel, vehicle repairs, poles, filters, fittings etc.  However, for someone who has already earned their tax free allowance elsewhere, 25% of turnover might not be far off.  It would probably give them a bit of holiday spending money too so long as it wasn't too expensive.
Additionally, if self-discipline is an issue, you can also set up a bank transfer to HMRC and send some money over the internet periodically.  Even if this were say, just 10% of turnover, it would still drastically reduce the outstanding liability come Jan/Jul 31.

[Helen]

Totally agree Paul Coleman, so many fall foul of not realising what costs are involved.
No matter what money you earn, always put 25% away for tax and NI and don't touch it.

Steve Kiff: You have started picking up customers at the hardest time of year, so well done for that. If you can do it now, it will be so much easier come the spring.

We all know how it is when you start and yes you go cheap to get work, but as Paul says you have to be realistic.
£8 per house x 200 = £1600 x11(if monthly cleans)=£17600 take off tax, business overheads etc etc and look at what you have left to pay your household costs....not a lot
add on just £2.00 per house
£10 x 200=£2000 x 11 =£22000, just for £2.00 extra per house you have over £4k more.
£10 for a 3 bed semi is still a really good price for the customer.

A tip for the spring, when quoting for people and they say I did have a cleaner, but haven't seen him since October, add £2 to the price you had in mind. If they say that is more expensive than the last one, just say yes but I provide an all year round service and don't let you down in the winter. You can always come down on price if you want to, but very rarely get the oppotunity to go up!

Good post Helen.  Personally, I have found that I can get away with putting rather less than 25% away for tax/NI.  The tax and NI (total of about 31% + that £30ish per quarter) doesn't start clocking up until after I've turned a profit of c.£6k.  Also, those business expenses eat into the turnover a bit more heavily than most because rent and water is pushing £2k a year.  Then there is the diesel, vehicle repairs, poles, filters, fittings etc.  However, for someone who has already earned their tax free allowance elsewhere, 25% of turnover might not be far off.  It would probably give them a bit of holiday spending money too so long as it wasn't too expensive.
Additionally, if self-discipline is an issue, you can also set up a bank transfer to HMRC and send some money over the internet periodically.  Even if this were say, just 10% of turnover, it would still drastically reduce the outstanding liability come Jan/Jul 31.

As you've said the 25% builds up and gives you money to fall back on if you should be ill, can't work whatever.
For newbies as well, that 1.5times tax payment at the end of the first year trading catches so many out! Not a good start to a business to be behind with the taxman early on!

[Ian101]

Thank you so much for the advice gentlemen. Really appreciate it. Learning everyday about this trade and to be honest everyone is right about the price to charge.

I have been out this morning window cleaning. Started off at 08:30 , home at 13:00. I cleaned 4 three bed semis at £8 and because they hadn't been cleaned in a while they were fillthy. The PVC was the hardest part of the 4 houses and took so much longer to clean than the windows.  I know I only done 4 but remember I'm new to the trade.

I think I messed up with the £8 price tag and feel after cleaning the 4 today that £10 is a much better price to charge than £8 .

Couple of questions:

1. Are people happy to pay £10 for a 3 bed semi clean?
2. I used 16 micro fibre clothes on 4 houses! Is this normal?
3. Do experienced windys concentrate on all the PVC as well as the windows?  This took the most amount of time.
4.  How long roughly does it take to get quick? I think im pretty slow at the moment. Really concentrating on doing a great job.

Cheers. Fellas.   Steve

Answered in no particular order

http://www.windowcleaningwarehouse.co.uk/shop/wcw-microfibre-single.html

these are the BEST cloths to go for great for detailing make sure you buy the larger size 80x60 and to save getting thru em to quick just use normal microfibres for the sills .. ASDA £2 ish for a roll of 4 or 5 ... turned Gav onto these last year so he will also tell you how good they are ... pricey yes but the best tools normally are .. had mine nearly 2 years and still going strong ... JOHN FARREL if your reading this u left 1 in my van last week   washed it 4u and will keep it safe for you


MIN PRICE ... ALWAYS keep a min price your prepared to work for .. I started up with £8 min then like you within a very short time realised it was too low so upped it to £10 however now on £12 but my book is full .... however still use common sense EG if do a house at £10 and next door ask then do them the same assuming same number of windows as they will already know what next door is paying - I can put them both up in March at same time  

PVC as a trad windie ... in other words the frames ... when I was trad I did the frames and sills on the 1st clean then sills every visit as takes seconds and frames prob every 3rd clean as once done they dont need doing every time.

Minging 1st cleans ... the forum you will realise fall into 2 camps on this, those that charge double on 1st clean and those that dont ... some see it as part of the job and IF a regular job then dont charge double or third on 1st clean however theres some on her who have been bitten by the "leave em this time brigade" when it comes to the second clean so to cover themselves they will charge the extra ... me personally I have only charged a double once on a block of flats that hadnt been done in 10 years and only ever been caught once ... was my early days and was a rented property and they were moving.

Time to clean a house ... this post takes me back to my early posts   ... my 1st cleans would take me over an hour for a little 2 bed 8 windowed house ... Gav predicted that I would one day be cleaning 3 or 4 an hour as trad .... he was right you will speed up ... now WFP so even quicker theses 1st houses that took me an hour now boshed out in under 10 minutes inc setting up time.

OTHER ADVICE

Spend half day cleaning and half day canvassing / leaflet dropping .. get a customer in morning clean em there and then or in afternoon.

Seriously think about going WFP as soon as you can ... make more money and safer


The evolution of a window cleaning business

Canvass like mad ... like your life depended on it  
Get customers
Clean em

Repeat above ..... a lot .................... or cheat like me and buy a few rounds

after 6 months you will have a resonable round maybe 150ish customers

now the important bit .... are you listening ?   ... this is critical to you having a nice well priced round filled with reliable customers

DROP THE DROSS

in case you missed it the first time DROP THE DROSS

slow payers / non payers/ dog poo filled gardens/ messers / leave it this time/

if you peservere with any of the above cos its easier than canvassing then you will notEVER EVER EVER have a great round and whilst spending time with these cretins / divs/ ham shankers / nobs / etc you will be missing the good ones.


BTW if your based in North Wales or Chester area then ignore all of the above as I own those areas  

[Paul Coleman]

Totally agree Paul Coleman, so many fall foul of not realising what costs are involved.
No matter what money you earn, always put 25% away for tax and NI and don't touch it.

Steve Kiff: You have started picking up customers at the hardest time of year, so well done for that. If you can do it now, it will be so much easier come the spring.

We all know how it is when you start and yes you go cheap to get work, but as Paul says you have to be realistic.
£8 per house x 200 = £1600 x11(if monthly cleans)=£17600 take off tax, business overheads etc etc and look at what you have left to pay your household costs....not a lot
add on just £2.00 per house
£10 x 200=£2000 x 11 =£22000, just for £2.00 extra per house you have over £4k more.
£10 for a 3 bed semi is still a really good price for the customer.

A tip for the spring, when quoting for people and they say I did have a cleaner, but haven't seen him since October, add £2 to the price you had in mind. If they say that is more expensive than the last one, just say yes but I provide an all year round service and don't let you down in the winter. You can always come down on price if you want to, but very rarely get the oppotunity to go up!

Good post Helen.  Personally, I have found that I can get away with putting rather less than 25% away for tax/NI.  The tax and NI (total of about 31% + that £30ish per quarter) doesn't start clocking up until after I've turned a profit of c.£6k.  Also, those business expenses eat into the turnover a bit more heavily than most because rent and water is pushing £2k a year.  Then there is the diesel, vehicle repairs, poles, filters, fittings etc.  However, for someone who has already earned their tax free allowance elsewhere, 25% of turnover might not be far off.  It would probably give them a bit of holiday spending money too so long as it wasn't too expensive.
Additionally, if self-discipline is an issue, you can also set up a bank transfer to HMRC and send some money over the internet periodically.  Even if this were say, just 10% of turnover, it would still drastically reduce the outstanding liability come Jan/Jul 31.

As you've said the 25% builds up and gives you money to fall back on if you should be ill, can't work whatever.
For newbies as well, that 1.5times tax payment at the end of the first year trading catches so many out! Not a good start to a business to be behind with the taxman early on!

Indeed, I had forgotten about that 1.5x liability at the end of year one.  It wasn't done that way when I started.  Very discouraging for new start-ups at a time when maybe new starts should be encouraged more.  In fact, when I started, there was even the possibility of getting a reduction in the first three years by averaging it out if your profits were very erratic.
I should have remembered the 1.5x really as I've been caught out myself when I've had a year that had vastly increased profits over the previous one.

[Ian101]

How does this 1.5 tax payment work ?

Im aware of it just not sure when its payable

Cant ask accountant as sacked him for overcharging 

EG Ive just completed 1st year 2010 to 2011 and so happened my year end is April so have to Jan to file online and pay tax - when do I pay the 1.5 ??

[northstar161]

I would try to charge more for the first clean if poss.

You are doing a good job and you are well worth it.

If you charged more for the first clean and the customer then changes his frequency from a six week cycle to a 12 week cycle (charged at about 40% more)  you won't have any difficulty in explaining this.

If they decide to change the frequency from a six to a 12 AFTER the first clean that you have done for, say £15 every six weeks, then you will experience some difficulty in justifying the 40% increase in price (due to six weeks more dirt and bird stuff on frames and panes and sills).

[Dave66]

Thank you so much for the advice gentlemen. Really appreciate it. Learning everyday about this trade and to be honest everyone is right about the price to charge.

I have been out this morning window cleaning. Started off at 08:30 , home at 13:00. I cleaned 4 three bed semis at £8 and because they hadn't been cleaned in a while they were fillthy. The PVC was the hardest part of the 4 houses and took so much longer to clean than the windows.  I know I only done 4 but remember I'm new to the trade.

I think I messed up with the £8 price tag and feel after cleaning the 4 today that £10 is a much better price to charge than £8 .

Couple of questions:

1. Are people happy to pay £10 for a 3 bed semi clean?
2. I used 16 micro fibre clothes on 4 houses! Is this normal?
3. Do experienced windys concentrate on all the PVC as well as the windows?  This took the most amount of time.
4.  How long roughly does it take to get quick? I think im pretty slow at the moment. Really concentrating on doing a great job.

Cheers. Fellas.   Steve

Answered in no particular order

http://www.windowcleaningwarehouse.co.uk/shop/wcw-microfibre-single.html

these are the BEST cloths to go for great for detailing make sure you buy the larger size 80x60 and to save getting thru em to quick just use normal microfibres for the sills .. ASDA £2 ish for a roll of 4 or 5 ... turned Gav onto these last year so he will also tell you how good they are ... pricey yes but the best tools normally are .. had mine nearly 2 years and still going strong ... JOHN FARREL if your reading this u left 1 in my van last week   washed it 4u and will keep it safe for you


MIN PRICE ... ALWAYS keep a min price your prepared to work for .. I started up with £8 min then like you within a very short time realised it was too low so upped it to £10 however now on £12 but my book is full .... however still use common sense EG if do a house at £10 and next door ask then do them the same assuming same number of windows as they will already know what next door is paying - I can put them both up in March at same time  

PVC as a trad windie ... in other words the frames ... when I was trad I did the frames and sills on the 1st clean then sills every visit as takes seconds and frames prob every 3rd clean as once done they dont need doing every time.

Minging 1st cleans ... the forum you will realise fall into 2 camps on this, those that charge double on 1st clean and those that dont ... some see it as part of the job and IF a regular job then dont charge double or third on 1st clean however theres some on her who have been bitten by the "leave em this time brigade" when it comes to the second clean so to cover themselves they will charge the extra ... me personally I have only charged a double once on a block of flats that hadnt been done in 10 years and only ever been caught once ... was my early days and was a rented property and they were moving.

Time to clean a house ... this post takes me back to my early posts   ... my 1st cleans would take me over an hour for a little 2 bed 8 windowed house ... Gav predicted that I would one day be cleaning 3 or 4 an hour as trad .... he was right you will speed up ... now WFP so even quicker theses 1st houses that took me an hour now boshed out in under 10 minutes inc setting up time.

OTHER ADVICE

Spend half day cleaning and half day canvassing / leaflet dropping .. get a customer in morning clean em there and then or in afternoon.

Seriously think about going WFP as soon as you can ... make more money and safer


The evolution of a window cleaning business

Canvass like mad ... like your life depended on it  
Get customers
Clean em

Repeat above ..... a lot .................... or cheat like me and buy a few rounds

after 6 months you will have a resonable round maybe 150ish customers

now the important bit .... are you listening ?   ... this is critical to you having a nice well priced round filled with reliable customers

DROP THE DROSS

in case you missed it the first time DROP THE DROSS

slow payers / non payers/ dog poo filled gardens/ messers / leave it this time/

if you peservere with any of the above cos its easier than canvassing then you will notEVER EVER EVER have a great round and whilst spending time with these cretins / divs/ ham shankers / nobs / etc you will be missing the good ones.


BTW if your based in North Wales or Chester area then ignore all of the above as I own those areas  

would you drop a bad payer in the middle of a good paying rd? i'd be reluctant to on the chance they find another cleaner then he starts tapping on doors n such..

[Helen]

How does this 1.5 tax payment work ?

Im aware of it just not sure when its payable

Cant ask accountant as sacked him for overcharging  

EG Ive just completed 1st year 2010 to 2011 and so happened my year end is April so have to Jan to file online and pay tax - when do I pay the 1.5 ??

Long time since I've thought about this, so forgive me if I get it wrong, but I am sure someone will put me right....

Also, get a new accountant, your figures for April 2010 to April 2011 should be done by now (if not before) so that you know what you have to pay! Yes you have to file your return by Jan 31st but that is the last date for payment as well.

April 2010 to April 2011. You will have to pay all tax owing for that financial year by 31st Jan 2012 plus 50% based on that figure up front, which goes towards April 2011 to April 2012 payments.
This 50% becomes your first installment and the second installment (same amount) is due end of July 2012.

April 2011 to April 2012, you will have made 2 up front payments (as above) towards this and by Jan 31st 2013 you will have to pay any deficit against your figures and also 50% towards the next year....

and so on and so on

[Ian101]

Thanks Helen read and understood .. Eventually

[Paul Coleman]

I would try to charge more for the first clean if poss.

You are doing a good job and you are well worth it.

If you charged more for the first clean and the customer then changes his frequency from a six week cycle to a 12 week cycle (charged at about 40% more)  you won't have any difficulty in explaining this.

If they decide to change the frequency from a six to a 12 AFTER the first clean that you have done for, say £15 every six weeks, then you will experience some difficulty in justifying the 40% increase in price (due to six weeks more dirt and bird stuff on frames and panes and sills).

IMO you don't have to justify the increase on cleaning grounds alone.  You can justify it by saying that it's a service that you prefer not to supply and it disrupts your scheduling.  As it's a service that you prefer not to supply, you wish to be better paid for it.  I've said this and I've swung it.  I get away with it because if someone wants to reduce the service like that, it's not such a big deal to lose it anyway - unless it's already a very good job.  Supermarkets can do "buy two - get third one free" which could mean that they overcharge on individual purchases,  yell.com charge a load extra for putting a link in the ad - even though it's a minute's work, so I can charge 50% more for something that takes 5% longer as it disrupts my schedule.