[Luc]

ok i know i might be opening up a can of worms here, but who cleans all the time with say detergent( ie crystal green, formula 90) in the final rinse. i rinse with just water most of time and fibre and fabric rinse of wool and most upholstery and sometimes crystal green on trashed jobs.
 
But, i had a chat to a carpet cleaner over the weekend who uses prochem double clean in his TM on almost everything and has been for the last 5 years.
I said surely you dont use it on wool or upholstery? but yes on EVERYTHING  .
 he agreed he would not use it on anything he suspected where the colour could run tho. he is always busy and gets a lot of repeat work and said he has never had any problems with  wool carpets or carpets getting dirty. he's reasoning is surely prochem would not make a product that would reattract dirt or cause problems.

Whats your take??

luc

[Simon Gerrard]

Luc,
My advice, for what it's worth - don't follow his example and keep doing what you are doing.

Simon

[Luc]

simon, i know better   and plan not to follow his example. im just amazed he has never any problems  .
it just got me to wondering how may other cleaners out there cleaned the same way

[Steve Rothwell]

I suspect that it is because he has "always done that"

20 years ago the majority of us put detergent in the tank with water as hot as we could get it out of the tap, and blasted away at the carpet.

It is only in relative recent times that pre-spray and clear water rinsing were advocated by the masses, so as I said at the begining he has probably always done that without any problems and cannot see why he should change.

As Simon says though I should stick to the way you do things....

[Dave_Lee]

I used a porty for 23 years before going TM and I always used a detergent rinse.
One of my more often detergents was Crystal green. It did an excellent job on everything and I never had any call backs, just lots of happy repeat customers.
It did leave a slightly sticky feel to the carpet straight after cleaning, but this dried to a minute dry residue and didn't lead to any resoiling problems.
In the 9 years since, with the  TM, I have used detergent rinses and plain water rinses. With the right detergent I see no problems using this as a rinse.
If you are achieving the desired result with the way you do things, carry on doing it that way and take no notice of how others do, but why be surprised that many use detergents as their rinse. If no one did, there wouldn't be any available from suppliers, yet there is an absolute vast range.
Dave.

[Mike Halliday]

I use a detergent rinse 90% of the time, usually f90

lets take upholstery...... if you prespray, agitate then rinse with freshwater what do you do if it doesn't come clean? you repeat the process until it does clean..... so more scrubbing and more wetting the fabric

what do you think does more harm to a fabric constant scrubbing or a detergent rinse?

a pre spray & detergent rinse gets the fabric clean without all the extra scrubbing and over-wetting the fabric.

same with a carpet if you freshwater rinse and it does not come clean then you have to repeat the process, but with a detergent you can just leave it and carry on while the detergent slowly works on the remaining soil...... then once you finish the room go over the dirty area again and it will come clean... no need to pre spray and scrub again.

people often will use the argument that the pre spray does the cleaning. then all you need to do is rinse. but what the pre spray does is make a 'soup of dirt' it can still be sticky and horrible..... it is not always just sitting there waiting to be rinsed away( with cold water) it might still need a helping hand to be removed,

detergents are not the bad guy that some people think and its not a crime to use them

[wayne zabel]

What confuses me when using a detergent rinse is how can it work when it basically only in contact with the carpet for a matter of seconds before the vacs suck most of it up.

[Mike Halliday]

wayne go into the kitchen and drip boiling water on your arm, don't worry it will on your arm be on a second not enough time to do anything...... even better drip sulphuric acid on your arm.

at the cleaning show years ago I saw a demonstration of a guy spray a chemical across a carpet with shoe polish on it..... the chemical just washed a line straight through the polish.

time is not always relevant

[garybristow]

I think your friend has got away with it because of his tm,i think with a portable he would of had some problems
 i have extracted with my tm without acid rinse by mistake,because of the power of the vacuum it sometimes wont matter
gary

[Paul Moss]

wayne go into the kitchen and drip boiling water on your arm, don't worry it will on your arm be on a second not enough time to do anything...... even better drip sulphuric acid on your arm.

at the cleaning show years ago I saw a demonstration of a guy spray a chemical across a carpet with shoe polish on it..... the chemical just washed a line straight through the polish.

time is not always relevant

Mike your talking about very aggressive chemicals here which is a total different ball game.
Go and spray sulphuric acid on a cotton suite or even better a draylon suite and see what happens to it in just a few short seconds :

Detergents that we use need a good dwell time with out aggitation and even with a dwell time of several wet hours will not do a fraction of damage compared to seconds of something like sulphuric acid.

[Paul Moss]

Oh I forgot to add. im a presparay and aggitate and rince with plain water man on both upholstery and carpets. I find using the right chemical, aggitation and heat gives me first class results first time 

[Mike Halliday]

Paul my comparisons was extreme, the point i was trying to answer  was Wayne's query.....  if a detergent can have an effect within the short time it is in contact with the fibre or carpet. these are chemical designed to do just that

look at Sod-met, this can have a massive visual effect within seconds. A Detergents can remove soil within the small amount of time it is in contact with the carpet.

   

[Ian Gourlay]

On the Ashby's Course they used to advise use their supreme product ph 11 followed by an acid spray to neutralise's

[simbo]

what about using something like cg as a prespray and then extract with just hot water? surely better and more benificial than rinsing with it in the tank. Having said that mike is right if you clean the whole carpet with it and then go back to any dark patches after time it does come straight out. With all the different chems on the market it can all become very confusing. Must add i have done this a few times but usually with ff in tank for rinse as cheap anyway and smells lovely.
paul

[The Carpet Cleaning Pro]

interesting topic... Surly when using a detergent as the rinse will not do any harm if you carry out the correct tesing before use and stick to the dilution rates as recommended. These chemicals are surly tested by the manufacuars and the rate of dilution we are given by them is for optimum cleaning results if used in the correct circumstances? My advice to anyone using any form of chemical is "always read the label and stick to what it says on the label" How many times have we all gone to that customer who has used the dreadid Rug Doctor and thought ..."well it is dirty so I will add some more detergent".

Me personally... am a prespray and acidic rinse guy now but ocassioally I do a detergent rinse without presraying if only lightly soiled with great results. I strictly go by label instructions and always get good result.

[Robin Ray]

I'm a pre spray and water rinse advocate myself. However I have to a agree with Mike that sometimes when you spray a stain it just disappears so time isn't always an issue.

With a detergent rinse though the detergent is still left in the carpet. I wouldn't wash my hair and not rinse it. I wouldn't wash my car and not rinse it. I wouldn't wash my dishes and not rinse them. But this guy gets good results and has happy customers though so i suppose that's what its all about at the end of the day.

[Mike Halliday]

why do people think the...... washing your hair analogy bears any relevance to carpet cleaning, of course you wouldn't leave shampoo in your hair without rinsing..... its a thick shampoo that you apply neat to your hair...... of course it needs to be rinsed out.

 try diluting it  800-1 then removing 85% of it and see how your hair feels

when you clean with a powered detergent you are leaving (less than) on average  a teaspoon of chemical on a living room carpet this is before it reverts to its powdered state and is removed up by the customer when subsequently vacuuming......which most modern chemical are designed to do

[Craigp]

Actually F90 is designed to crystalise use on drying, so any left in the carpet will crystalise and simply vacuum away next time it's vacced - no residue.

Julie Roberts of Chem spec told me that.

[Ian Gourlay]

Put some pre mixed cleaning solution on a white plate let it dry and see how much residue you get

[Paul H]

for what its worth.... have taken stock of dfc 210 (pe spray)... and dfc 105 ( rinse agent )...( both detergent free)

i have previously used 105 as both a pre spray and rinse solution... with good results.

i have now used the 210 which is specific pre spray to be used in conjuction with 105... i must say i'm very impressed ... added with tadge energiser as a booster if need be...  i cant say im disappointed..