[mike roberts]

started to clean a 'Next' woolen rug aprox 3m*4m size (2yrs plus age),
was lightly soiled but had small dog urine marks pointed out to customer that these may not be removed completely, started cleaning (std vac, woolsafe prespray, woolsafe extraction) all fine ..suddenly pile started to extract local area ... looking closely backing localy started to break up!! turning to an almost powder! Any answers or other similar experiences welcome... quickly removed local pre spray.. currently awaiting for 'next' to respond we have treatment risk but we have cleaned it by the book!

[Colin Day]

Don't take the blame. Get them to take it up with their insurers if "Next" don't play ball and write up a letter-headed report stating what action you have taken to remedy "their" problem. Cleaning a rug the way you did "WILL NOT" have such an effect unless an under-lying problem already existed, which seems to be the case...

[mike roberts]

thks for that appreciate comments, insurance company have said similar.. 'next' are trying to use the one guarantee getout , we will push item was 'unfit' for sale - should of said I am a newbie to website but have been carpet cleaning for 6 yrs plus first ever prob!

[colin fitch]

any pictures?

colin

[Lisa Wagner]

We are seeing this problem more and more with hooked rugs from China as well as in the States.

I wrote a post on this for our rug cleaning clients to help educate them on the dangers - and this problem mentioned here was because of poor quality latex.

Hooked Rugs => http://bit.ly/hookrugproblems

I know that doesn't help you now AFTER the damage has been done... but this is a manufacturing flaw and not a cleaning flaw, at least in my opinion.

Hope that helps someone else in the future.

Lisa

[mike roberts]

thks Lisa, it is something to look out for in the future!

I have spoken to alot of 'experts' over here and they are not aware of this problem!!

Out of interest how do you rectify this prob, if spotted prior to cleaning! errr 

[Lisa Wagner]

thks Lisa, it is something to look out for in the future!

I have spoken to alot of 'experts' over here and they are not aware of this problem!!

Out of interest how do you rectify this prob, if spotted prior to cleaning! errr 

With these rugs, unless they are willing to have the backing removed and completely covered in a new layer of latex BEFORE washing, we will turn it away. Even surface cleaning with an upholstery tool will still get that latex damp and the filler in the adhesive can still "powder" off and flake onto the front.

When we get these rugs after they've been in a flood, and we are trying to salvage them - and we obviously can't put on new latex before cleaning when it's a contaminated piece - we will remove (and replace) the material backing, take a Wet/Dry Vac and suck up as much adhesive as we can, wash and soak/deodorize, and dry the rug.

Then we apply the new latex and material when dry.

But... most of you use an extractor to remove the water - and you risk pulling out tufts because the latex holding the rug together has crumbled away. We have a roller wringer, so we don't have that danger when removing the water.

To help keep it from pulling apart, you might be able to put some screening over the rug and extract through that... you need to be careful though.

I hope that helps.

Lisa

P.S. I just sold out my rug training program in the States (50 companies in 3 days - which was really a shock. A happy shock  )  I did have a few international signups... but I'm had a number of UK cleaners ask me to come train over there. If any of you are interested, send me an email to rugchick@gmail.com - what I will do is show you the program website for what I just sold and if that looks like a process you would be interested in, then I will look at the UK as a potential site for one of the advanced rug workshops in 2012.  Hope you all enjoy the rest of your weekend!

[Ian Gourlay]

We are seeing this problem more and more with hooked rugs from China as well as in the States.

I wrote a post on this for our rug cleaning clients to help educate them on the dangers - and this problem mentioned here was because of poor quality latex.

Hooked Rugs => http://bit.ly/hookrugproblems

I know that doesn't help you now AFTER the damage has been done... but this is a manufacturing flaw and not a cleaning flaw, at least in my opinion.

Hope that helps someone else in the future.

Well worth a read and explore Liza's site

What was extremely interesting was they lie their rugs flat to dry.  also I think it said little heat.

had been through a wringer

[L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner]

Mike,what is the value of the rug ?
Does it look as if any of the urine has
Gone thru`to the backing of the rug ?



Lewis  Doubtfire

[colin fitch]

started to clean a 'Next' woolen rug aprox 3m*4m size (2yrs plus age),
was lightly soiled but had small dog urine marks pointed out to customer that these may not be removed completely, started cleaning (std vac, woolsafe prespray, woolsafe extraction) all fine ..suddenly pile started to extract local area ... looking closely backing localy started to break up!! turning to an almost powder! Any answers or other similar experiences welcome... quickly removed local pre spray.. currently awaiting for 'next' to respond we have treatment risk but we have cleaned it by the book!

Are you saying the pile extracted out,from where the urine marks are?

I have seen many times where the dog or cat has used the rug as a toilet, and caused the backing to break down and delaminate

colin

[mike roberts]

due to the size of the urine marks (really small - size you would make with small marker pen) it did not appear to be the urine which has broken down the carpet.
Once tuffs extracted you could see 'latex' powdering! If it was a large stain then yes I would 'point the finger' at that causing the problem- but appears to be what Lisa is suggesting.

We learn form our mistakes!!  To be honest in the past i would not of touched the rug due to the amount of tiny urine marks rug being wool knowing the marks would not be removed completely, rug should of been scrapped!!! If the husband had urinated on the rug would customer of kept it!! We were recommended to the customer she happened to ring when I was working in her village and that weekend I was due to clean a synthetic rug for an office which we clean every 2 wks, simply adjusted prespray and extracted both rugs using fibre fabric + odour fresh simple!! was only going to charge £45 +vat for that price she wanted me to give it a go, impression she gave if it didnt clean up she would scrap it!

Unfortunately now this has happened ,the customer now thinks she can claim for a new rug! I have informed my insurance company (we have treatment risk)
and will fight this!
OUR POLICY WILL NOW BE - IN FUTURE WALK AWAY FROM THIS TYPE OF RUG URINE MARKS

'Next' have told her its not the way the rug was manufactured (surprise surprise) and its the cleaning ... rrrrr apparently Servicemaster are going to view it! er will wait to see what they say. To be honest amazed another cleaning company would take time to go out and see it ! thanks alot!

[Neil Williams]

r apparently Servicemaster are going to view it! er will wait to see what they say. To be honest amazed another cleaning company would take time to go out and see it ! thanks alot!

SM will have been contacted by the insurance company to make a judgement.
It's just the way it works.

[mike roberts]

First time in trading 10yrs we have had this problem or possible insurance case.

Really unsure how this process works ! Insurance company not to help full ..we have been advised to fill in our insurance claim form detailing cleaning method etc what happens from there really unsure!

They have said its up to customer to prove the cleaning caused damage.

Assume thats why SM are looking at it... just passionate about our cleaning / buisness i guess - no way cleaning could of done this.

If you can enlighten me on process would appreciate it - Who makes the final call??

[mike roberts]

Mike,what is the value of the rug ?
Does it look as if any of the urine has
Gone thru`to the backing of the rug ?



Lewis  Doubtfire

Hi Lewis, sorry for delay in answering been on hols!
value of rug new £300 ish urine stains existing . ... hole new !

Urine does not appear to of penetrated that deep

[Simon@arenaclean]

most insurance have an excess normally around £250, frankly it's not worth claiming. Also most are not 'new for old' and fair wear and tear is taken into consideration and a percentage of the purchase price is offered.

[L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner]

ServiceMaster will be paid a fee by the insurance company for this,
More than likely.
Years ago,I had a complaint on suite with browning stains,caused by
Natural hair oil,hair spray etc. etc.The cleaning I did made it worse.
ServiceMaster said I had over wetted when cleaning it.The customer
Should be paid £2,000 for re-cover,replacement etc. etc.
I was fully insured ( treatments risk) at the time.My insurance company
Said because the suite was over 20 years old the customer had had her
Use out of it.It never reached the stage where would I be prepared to
Contest it in court if needs be.( Power to the insurance companies)

By the way,the local area ServiceMaster got paid £40 plus VAT for
Trying to `drop me in it `.

Moral of the story,well,,,,,,,,,,,,,back to the rug,,,,,,,urine stains,I`ve been
`conned`too many times.

P.S.  My suite complaint happened in 1992 I think it was.



Lewis  Doubtfire

[mike roberts]

most insurance have an excess normally around £250, frankly it's not worth claiming. Also most are not 'new for old' and fair wear and tear is taken into consideration and a percentage of the purchase price is offered.

I understand that but not happy for myself / insurance to pay out as it was not down to the cleaning! As a company we have cleaned restored flood damaged rugs / carpets time consuming but with no problem this has to be manu problem - not even sure how you could damage rug in this way via cleaning!

[mike roberts]

ServiceMaster will be paid a fee by the insurance company for this,
More than likely.
Years ago,I had a complaint on suite with browning stains,caused by
Natural hair oil,hair spray etc. etc.The cleaning I did made it worse.
ServiceMaster said I had over wetted when cleaning it.The customer
Should be paid £2,000 for re-cover,replacement etc. etc.
I was fully insured ( treatments risk) at the time.My insurance company
Said because the suite was over 20 years old the customer had had her
Use out of it.It never reached the stage where would I be prepared to
Contest it in court if needs be.( Power to the insurance companies)

By the way,the local area ServiceMaster got paid £40 plus VAT for
Trying to `drop me in it `.

Moral of the story,well,,,,,,,,,,,,,back to the rug,,,,,,,urine stains,I`ve been
`conned`too many times.

P.S.  My suite complaint happened in 1992 I think it was.



Lewis  Doubtfire

SM have been out to view rug paid via 'Next' blamed the cleaning for the problem!
However will not supply any details to customer and certainly not myself!
After advice what happens now 
What i was going to do is -  fill in insurance claim form for my protection advise them not to pay - produce my own report, give my details to customer and see what happens.... is this right

[John Kelly]

Do not fill in your insurance form. Insurance companies are not there to help you, yes surprise, surprise. They are bookmakers pure and simple. They estimate how much their liabilities are likely to be for the coming year then set their premiums at a rate which will hopefully make them a big profit. They then invest your premium. This is what their business is, investments. They even re-insure the risk of insuring you.
They don't give a toss whether you were to blame or not and will probably just settle. You fill the form in you've made a claim.
I would wait to hear what Servicemaster have to say. Ask for a copy of their report in writing. If they dish you demand a copy of the qualifications of the guy who looked at it. Has he got any specialist knowledge in the manufacture and problems of rugs, highly unlikely.
In fact I would give your local Servicemaster guy a ring or go round and see him and have a chat about it. He might be an ok guy, some of them are
These are the kind of problems where being a member of the NCCA is worth its weight in gold.

[Mike_Roper]

If Servicemaster is blaming your cleaning as being at fault which is an easy wy out , ask them to clean an area themselves an see what happens . They probaly assume yu have used a solvent which has affected the latex.
Mike