[bassjamm]

Hello,

I'm looking to take someone on to work along side me with the view to working on their own for me within a few months.

I was wondering how you find this works best regarding sub-contracting/employment and what have you.

I've no idea how it all works really so any insight would be very much appreciated.

Thanks
Jamie

[bassjamm]

Any thoughts guys and gals?

[stfc]

ive got one bloke working along side me and hes gone self employed.

[williamx]

ive got one bloke working along side me and hes gone self employed.

Does that mean that he has his own customers?

[daz1977]

if he worked for you doing your custys, he is not self employed he is employed,  u could sub contract to him,  but he would have to work for someone else 1 day a week to avoid the employment laws

if he got 10 custys him self for 1 days work and they subed to u 4 days a week he would be classed as self employed

u could employ him on a CIS card, but u would have to take 18% tax off him and he would have to sort out his own NI and u would have to give him vouchers for the tax u take

[Tom White]

if he worked for you doing your custys, he is not self employed he is employed,  u could sub contract to him,  but he would have to work for someone else 1 day a week to avoid the employment laws

It's a lot more complex than that; I've looked into it.  I've also received some 'advice' from a successful window cleaner with a big business about how to 'fiddle' the rules, but even then he said it was very thin ice and probably wouldn't stand up in court; but it involved making Wor Lass self employed 'business owner' and running a 'different' window cleaning company; and then we both - as in two different window cleaning companys - subcontract the work out.

There's some helpful stuff on that government website about employment status and it's almost impossible to legally employ someone without doing it 100% properly.   A whole range of factors come into it such as whose tools does the 'employee/subcontractor' use?  Does anyone dictate his working times and practises?  Does he work longer on a job with no extra money if the price he has given is under than what he should've charged; and lots of other stuff.

At my low (aka micky mouse) level, and with my attitude to risk being on the low side coupled with some moral values (therefore I like to do things properly and legally), the most I'd do in the near future is to subcontract work to new and trustworthy window cleaners who're short of work.

[Helen]

if he worked for you doing your custys, he is not self employed he is employed,  u could sub contract to him,  but he would have to work for someone else 1 day a week to avoid the employment laws

It's a lot more complex than that; I've looked into it.  I've also received some 'advice' from a successful window cleaner with a big business about how to 'fiddle' the rules, but even then he said it was very thin ice and probably wouldn't stand up in court; but it involved making Wor Lass self employed 'business owner' and running a 'different' window cleaning company; and then we both - as in two different window cleaning companys - subcontract the work out.

Jees, the paperwork trails would be a nightmare. If you had gone this way, how would you have got around the "same type business x 2" at same address scenario. Same as you, do it the right way and don't attract unwanted attention from HMRC. Sleep easy at night and keep stess levels low that's what I say.

For anyone wishing to take on staff, go to HMRC site and if necessary call them and discuss your options, speak to your accountant. There is now so much redtape in employing,self employed and sub contracting, i'm just glad we don't anymore!

[bassjamm]

This is all a bit confusing

Are there any of you on here who have people working for them in some capacity?

Ideally I don't want to employ anyone due to the headaches involved...but I also want to make sure I'm doing things right.

[paul rulton]

just make sure they buy there own equipment ( just a back pack will do )
& when u get them 2 make ur invoice out, always say they ave done a few days less than they did.
that then gives them spare time 2work else where if they want 2    happy days   
 
 
 

[williamx]

just make sure they buy there own equipment ( just a back pack will do )
& when u get them 2 make ur invoice out, always say they ave done a few days less than they did.
that then gives them spare time 2work else where if they want 2    happy days   

and when you are caught by an Inland Revenue investigation you will be fined bigtime and if you are unlucky you will also go to prison.

Get a HR company to help and advise you and do it legally, remember that the taxman can land at anytime and he will look back 6 years into your business and he will find any mistakes you have made.

So for instance if you say that you are sub-contracting, the taxman will pull the sub-contarctors tax records and check that he has indepentant customers to yours.
 
 
 

[paul rulton]

that may be true, i was just told that as long as ur suby has a couple of days a week 2do other work then thats ok if he does not work, then thats his choice. i work alone so it dont bother me 
not much point in me gettin help with the few hours i get done in a day 

[williamx]

If the taxman looked at that he would declare that you are employing not sub-contracting and you would have back taxes plus interest plus fines to pay.

The main problem is a lot of people see "arthur daley " and "del boy" getting away with their fiddles.

Don't you think that the taxman also watches the programs , so he know every single fiddle going.

Years ago I use to drive tax inspectors around to people homes and they told me that they know that 90% of the self employed fiddle to some degree, it might only be the odd £10 cash in the pocket, which they accept is going to happen, but they said when they get greedy thats when they get caught.

[paul rulton]

like ur refs  del boy  i know wot ur sayin m8. at least i can sleep at nite  & it sounds like u do2
do u have many people workin 4u m8?

[Jack Wallace]

My guys are PAYE, I hate paperwork so employ a secretary (also PAYE) to deal with it all.

Employing means your turnover goes up, once you hit 70K you’re into VAT, MORE paperwork, more headaches and more cost!!!

[daz1977]

My guys are PAYE, I hate paperwork so employ a secretary (also PAYE) to deal with it all.

Employing means your turnover goes up, once you hit 70K you’re into VAT, MORE paperwork, more headaches and more cost!!!

can any one answer this question,  if you stay as a sole trader call paul smith window cleaning,  do u still have to go vat registered?, 

[Jack Wallace]

My guys are PAYE, I hate paperwork so employ a secretary (also PAYE) to deal with it all.

Employing means your turnover goes up, once you hit 70K you’re into VAT, MORE paperwork, more headaches and more cost!!!

can any one answer this question,  if you stay as a sole trader call paul smith window cleaning,  do u still have to go vat registered?, 

It all depends on your turnover.
Even as a sole trader you will have to go VAT registered if you hit the threshold which I believe is 68k.
One thing to remember is the threshold is on a 12 month “rolling turnover” and not your year end accounts.
You need to register before you hit the target or get penalties.

[williamx]

And when you register you have 2 choises, the first one is the standard one of charging and paying 17.5%.

The second one is the flat rate scheme, with this one you charge your customers 17.5% but you only pay the vat man 10.5% (9.5% in the first year) of your turnover.

With the flat rate scheme you cannot claim back any vat you have paid unless you paid over £2000 for it.

You also can claim back vat 3 years before you were vat registered as well.