[kinder clean]

Just got a job for cleaning a leather suite (standard lacquered type finish) the suite is pale green, about 9 years old and on the chair where the old man sits there is a brown stain (looks like makeup foundation) she said it wont be hair colouring, as he's bald as a coot. 

So will it be oil from his skin that's caused it? I had a quick try with the furniture clinic std cleaner, but didn't seem to touch it.

Will anything get the stain out?

Any advice much appreciated.

Cheers

Paul   

[robert meldrum]

Probably need to be stripped, degreased, then re finished. Not a cleaning job.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I'm guessing you mean it's a pigmented leather when you say laquered?

If it is you can try higher ph cleaners just be carefully, if it is grease then you should be able to get it off but there are 2 things that could happen,

1. The grease may have taken the colour when you take the grease off you may find no colur underneath or at least taken the finish off which you could get the blame for.

2. The brown could actually be the naked leather with the colour removed.

I restored a pigmented sofa last year where the lady of the house had sat with her rollers in her hair and the colour had been scratched off.

Shaun

[robert meldrum]

By asking the question and telling us that a pro' cleaner had no effect I suggest you contact either F C or LTT who should be able to refer you to someone or talk you through a remedy.

A clear photo would help

[LTT Leathercare]

The trick here is to try and identify the cause of the problem.  

If it is some sort of stain that is sitting on the surface of the leather and a cleaner has not dealt with the problem then whatever has caused it has redyed the leather and you will need stronger products to resolve the problem.  Try a product specifically for dye transfer (Maxi Cleaner), if this does not work then you would need stronger solvent based products and there may be a need to recolour/refinish.

If this is grease from head/body oils then this will be inside the leather and would need degreaser to get it out, (no 'cleaning' product will resolve this) this may pull colour with it which would then need replacing.  It would be important to get all the grease out before recolouring/refinishing otherwise there would be an adhesion problem.  You can usually tell if its grease or body oils, if you run your nail aqcroos it, it would scratch lighter.  Grease generally leaves darker marks rather than brown.

A photo will be helpful, email me one if you would like me to assess the problem and get back to you.

Cheers
Judy

[kinder clean]

Thanks for the replies

Will be cleaning the suite on Thursday, I'll advise the customer what may happen, I will also take a photo.

Many thanks

Paul

[LTT Leathercare]

Surely the customer will be expecting you to be able to 'clean' the problem area and this is likely to be the reason she called you in in the first place.

If this is the expectation and you do not manage to fulfill her idea of the outcome with the products you have she may decide that you have not done the job properly even though the problem may not be a cleaning one!!! 
Customers very rarely understand the difference between a cleaning job and a technical one (they think anything can be 'cleaned' better) so identification of a problem and being able to fully discuss with the customer the likely outcome needs to be done this side of cleaning and not after - just in case.

This type of stain removal (whatever it is) is not part of the general cleaning process (unless it will come straight off - which it hasn't) and should be dealt with as a separate matter and charged for accordingly, that way the customer is under no illusion that it is a simple matter to resolve it. 
Most of these type of problems could have been prevented with the use of a leather protector (one that works efficiently) but unfortunately the customers are not told this by the retailer!!!  : Hey ho keeps us all in work!!

Hope this helps
Give us a ring if you need any further info.

Cheers
Judy

[kinder clean]

Thanks for all the advice.

Cleaned the suite today, for some reason this suite was a pig to clean, took some real effort with aggresive scouring and brushing to get through the dirt.

Anyway custy very pleased and told her the staining (pictured below in poor photo) would probably require re colouring, she was happy to leave it as it was.

Paul 

[robert meldrum]

The cushions on the floor look the same colour as the " staining " !!

[kinder clean]

Thats a table cloth Rob.   

Is there a solution for really stubborn ground in 'Not gonna budge without an angle grinder' type dirt on leather ?

I  used FC leather cleaner foaming solution, which on every other job has been fine but this job had taken 1 3/4 hours longer to clean.

What do you guys recommend.

Paul

[Bob Robertson]

What do you guys recommend.

Paul

I would recommend you get yourself on a course, after a comment like"took some real effort with aggressive scouring"  What damage have you done after your aggressive scouring Paul ?

Bob

[kinder clean]

Got all my basic leather cleaning experience on here (top forum) and at the CCDO's, (top workshops)

Obviously I still watched what I was doing Bob, no delamination, it just took 20x more elbow grease than normal so was asking if anyone uses a stronger solution in these situations.

Paul 

[Jim_77]

Paul, I honestly mean no offence but how can you consider reading a forum to be any sort of training?  There's all sorts of crap spouted on here about leather.

There are some who would consider the other "hands on" experience you've had to be of questionable integrity too :

Get yourself trained up by people who have recognised credentials.  You'll find this sort of problem becomes no problem at all.

[Roger Koh]

For Restorative or Salvage Cleaning:

Use a restorative product that has all the penetrating, lubricating and suspending power yet leather safe with a pH of 4.9 super cleaner follows with a pH 3.8 cleaner to remove all residues and an acidifier pH 3.0 rinse to stabilize the leather chemistry integrity.

Let the proper chemistry works for you, you don’t need all those physical effort that may be detrimental to the leather finishes!

Besides does the leather stiffen up when dry?

How about the tactile feel?

How does the leather scent?

These are few tips for you to think about, if you would want to keep your reputation.

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[LTT Leathercare]

Paul
When cleaning leather 'elbow grease' should be the last thing you increase if you cannot get it clean.  Added aggression will only cause damage to the finish on the leather.

There are several things that need to be addressed here.

Did you do a preclean survey?
This would have told you whether what you are trying to clean was actually dirt or not.  If you have micro cracking on pale leathers (not visible with the naked eye) it will always give the appearance of dirt but no amount of scrubbing will 'clean' it.

What cleaning method did you use?
If you use a foam cleaner (rather than a liquid) you can achieve better results by allowing dwell time on each section.  This softens the dirt and allows less agression to be used to remove it.

What products did you have with you to resolve the problem?
Cleaning or restoration of leather is always a progressive thing.  If one cleaner does not work then you may need to move to a stronger one on the areas that require it.  Never rush in with the strongest one first otherwise you may create damage.  Dye transfer as you have here is a cae in point and there are progressive steps that can be taken to resolve this problem.

Cleaning leather is as much about the method as the products used and a basic understanding of both is required to get the best results.  The products should always do the work and the method employed should be understood enough to allow this to happen. Simply rushing in and applying product and scrubbing is not enough as you have found.  Learn to undertand what you are dealing with, whether it will clean, how it will clean and what are the best products and methods to achieve the results you require.  There is always a fine line between a cleaning process and a technical job with leather and this is something you need to be able to discuss with your customer before you start.

Deterioration of leather finish is not always obvious but it can happen with aggressive cleaning (what did you use for the 'scrubbing'?) and in some cases may well leave the customers furniture in a more vulnerable state than when you started.  This is obviously not what you would want - or the customer.

Hope this helps

[robert meldrum]

There's cleaning and there's stripping. I think you might have got very close to the latter. Must be a pretty tough finish on this one but may have been weakened considerably.

Take heed of what Jim Neal says and get either LTT, FC, or RK to help. There is always an aggressive way of doing things that works on most occasions, but not all and requires you to be in a position to carry out remedial work if you cause damage, whether slight or extensive.

Keep it simple and profitable

Good luck

[kinder clean]

Points taken.

I used a soft brush and small sponges, water and a foam cleaner, also used a conditioner after the clean.

I really should get myself some training, I know of LTT and FC but who are RK ?

Paul

[derek west]

i'd guess roger koh. but i could be wrong
logic being, the clue is in the initials
derek

[kinder clean]

I always thought Rodger was in Cananda  long way to go for training, can I claim the expenses ? 

Paul

[Shaun_Ashmore]

LTT have some good training I also enjoyed it at Furniture Clinic apart from this Scottish bloke kept saying that I was late and he had come from Scotland and was on time (I'd have run out of Scotland also )

Shaun