[Jim Gibbard]

I've just been experimenting with SEO on Google and I think I have been slapped (penalised for what I have done).

Our main domain name ( and only domain name ) has for years been www.spic-n-span.co.uk.  For some time now, if you searched on "spic n span" or "spic and span", we would come out in the top 3 of the first page for that search term.  Recently, we aquired the domain name "spicnspangroup.com".   So, thinking we could multiply our web presence, the main site was copied and the 2 identical versions were published to the web, one under each domain name (URL).

The result, within 24 hours, we have dropped from #2 or #3 on the first page to page 4.  I think what has happened is that we have been penalised for duplicate content ( identical web sites under different URL's ).  I must say that I am amazed at how quickly it happened.  A similar thing happened about 5 months ago.  I put Coventry Carpet Cleaners in front of Spic n Span in the site description and the same thing happened, dropped to page 4.  I then changed back to the original and back up it went again in a couple of weeks. 

Here's me thinking I was getting to grips with Google & SEO and wallop, a slap in the face with a big wet fish.  It's a challenge though, so now I am going to try a different tack.   I am going to delete all of the content on one of the URL's and make it a doorway page ( a single page website with minimal information which points through a link to the #1 main site ).  I have just set up 2 similar doorway pages to link to the main URL.  These names were more location specific than purely the company name Spic n Span Group.   The sites were   www.carpetcleanerscoventry.com  & www.carpetcleanersolihull.com.  If you are interested in what I mean, if you look at one of these sites it will give you an idea of what I am trying to achieve.

Just thought I would share this as for any business with a website, the more experience's shared the more we all have to gain.

 Jim

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Jim

I think you are missing the fundamental SEO point, getting business.

Who is going to search for Spic and Span, they are far more likely to search for carpet cleaners coventry and you are on the first page for that.

I am doing a talk on websites on Monday and will elaborate.

Cheers

Doug

[Mike Osbourne]

Just a general point that will save a lot of heartache for anyone doing their own seo.

Invariably you will find once indexed a new site will always rank far higher than it will settle down to, then it will drop like a stone and even not appear in the rankings, then re-emerge and climb back.

You still need to build backlinks no matter how good your on page seo is.

As doug says also, domains which are company names are a waste of time. Because your name will easily rank on a search because it's got no competition. But CC (area) gives you the most searches per day that are relevant.

[clinton]

Mike

You mean to put links on our sites is important

[chosker]

Jim - I am sorry to say this but you have made a big mistake, not in having two web sites, but in making them identical.
I am not an 'expert' but i deal with our optimisation and liaise the most with our desigeners/updaters. We are soon to launch a second website but have been warned firmally (by 3 serperate companies) that there must be ABSOLUTELY NO replication between the two sites. I think that google sees it as spam and rates your site lower for not being unique.

For the same reason you should never have two pages the same on a website - you can't just change a word here and there, you have to re-write the entire thing.

I hope the above is all correct, because as I said, I'm not an expert. From what I have been told my advice would be to leave the original website as is and re-write the other one. Why would you want 2 identical websites anyway?

Sorry if that is of no help at all!

[Mike Osbourne]

Not on, to Clinton 

Like you have at the bottom of every post you do here.

Try and get one way links cos reciprocal links are losing favour with Google.

[Jim Gibbard]

Doug,
Thanks for your input, look forward to hearing more from you on the SEO subject.
Incidently, The carpet cleaners Coventry doorway/landing page has only just gone "live" on Monday.  I am amazed again at how quick it has got a good position.

I understand what you say about location specific domain names being more effctive than company name domains.  When I initially set the site up Spic n Span, that was about 4 or 5 years ago.  I have only really been aware of SEO and it's importance for 6 months or so, but I am learning all the time I hope, as we all do with cleaning.

Mike,
Good point about back links, I have heard they are very important to google page ranking.  I'm sure Doug could tell us more about links, as he has a lot on his sites I believe.  Incidentally, Spic n Span has a lot of competition, there must be dozens & dozens of them with derivitives.

Chosker,
I am going to take down 1 of these identical sites, probably the .co.uk one, which will leave me with a .com one.  I am just experimenting at this stage.

Regards,

Jim

[Neil Williams]

Google is more secretive than MI5 in that they never seem to tell us what is good and what is bad, and change the rules without telling anyone.
I have 4 web sites out there, a main one and 3 times one pagers.
The 3 single pagers are vertually identical.
One of the single pagers seemed to have been lost in hyperspace so I asked on one of the other forums why this was? The answer was because they are identical so I decided to overhaul the 'missing' the site the day after.
Stone me I did one last check before settling down to redo it and there it was along with the others all in the first 3 pages of google. Two weeks later on and I have a minor site on page one, the other 2 minor ones along with the main site on page 2.
For some reason my main site has sunk down quite a bit from high on page 1, perhaps and strangely for some reason it coincided with the same day the  SEO lot I subscribe to resubmitted my site to tons of search engines.

Why do I have so many sites? To flood out the opposition