[julianbiggs]

 We have taken a business decision to expand our round and employ a third person, we are currently a two man team, even partners in the business and we are traditional wc's. We are considering employing a third person on the following basis:

1 x traditional window cleaner working 16 days per month. Total hours 152.

Flexible rotas including a maximum of 2 Saturdays per calendar month and no Sundays.

6 weeks holiday per year including 2 mandatory weeks off over xmas and the new year.

£15600 per annum or £7.89 per hour.

What we want to know from people who employ window cleaners is 2 things:

1. What are our chances of getting a good employee on those grounds ?

2. Is that hourly rate / annual salary  competitive ?

[julianbiggs]

Come on guys some of you must employ and have an opinion.

[simbo]

spend a third on wfp an stay 2 man, less hassle
simbo

[bluez]

I employ staff but it is in Ireland. The only thing I would suggest to you is that you don't over plan it. If you get someone that really suits your business then you will no doubt pay more and if they are really good then they will help to develop your business.

On the issue of the pay rate I think the hourly rate sounds fine but I would leave yourself some flexibility on the annual salary in order to allow for rain,bad weather, one off jobs etc.

Only you will be able to determine if an employee is good or not and only after you have worked with them for a few weeks. In my experience you could pay €40 an hour and still get muppets or €9.00 and get good guys. The good guys are good guys because they are good not because they get more money. Dont know if any of this is any help

[windowwashers]

spend a third on wfp an stay 2 man, less hassle
simbo

Agree with this nearly, go wfp, then employ another after, you will save them 16 hours in wages for the time being.

Ian

[Ian Rochester]

Q1. No
Q2. No

Put them on a piece rate scheme, they get paid a %age of what they do.  You will get more work out of them.

[windowwashers]

Q1. No
Q2. No

Put them on a piece rate scheme, they get paid a %age of what they do.  You will get more work out of them.

Ian,

what do you pay as a rate?

Ian

[Alex Gardiner]

Whilst your salary proposal is attractive, with window cleaning I always feel that there has to be some job linked incentive. Do more get paid more. The trouble with taking on someone on a fixed wage is that the only people that will be attracted are non-window cleaners. You will then spend a year training them (and paying them), once they realise the money involved they will go off self-employed. If you give them a direct percentage of the value of the work they do (perhaps 70%) then the better and faster they get, the more you will be rewarding them.

The other alternative which has been mentioned is to go WFP. This will seriously reduce your labour costs. 7 years ago I had 2 other guys working with me personally and occasionally took on a 3rd for some contracts. 1 year after starting WFP this went down to just 1 guy working with me (and we still finish earlier).

[Helen]

 We have taken a business decision to expand our round and employ a third person, we are currently a two man team, even partners in the business and we are traditional wc's. We are considering employing a third person on the following basis:

1 x traditional window cleaner working 16 days per month. Total hours 152.

Flexible rotas including a maximum of 2 Saturdays per calendar month and no Sundays.

6 weeks holiday per year including 2 mandatory weeks off over xmas and the new year.

£15600 per annum or £7.89 per hour.

What we want to know from people who employ window cleaners is 2 things:

1. What are our chances of getting a good employee on those grounds ?

2. Is that hourly rate / annual salary  competitive ?

152 hours by the 16 days is 9.50 hours per day, can you achieve those daily hours in the winter with lesser daylight?

At this point you only have to give 4.8 weeks holiday per annum, so why go for 6 when it is not necessary?

Would make hourly rate lower, but give quality bonus to make up wage, deductable for sub standard work etc etc

No matter what you pay there is a chance of getting good there is a chance of getting bad, it's lottery with staff.

Your £15600 per annum turns into £17k plus with the employers national ins contribution bit , you have extra layout on insurances etc. I'm sure you have considered that but was worth mentioning

You would also have the scenario of 2 bosses and 1 staff, you would have to sort out between you whose responsibilty overall staffing is as you can't have 2 opinions to train and guide 1 person

[mop-n-scrim]

I employ, with a standard part-time contract that offers some flexibility over the working week.
It is also in the contract that if work can't be done ie rain mon-thurs, then the unworked hrs are made up for in the next week.

You are making a good offer on hols (to good i feel). Thats an extra £600+NI you would need to put aside every annum, plus as you expand it would be extra £s each employee.

If you want I can send you a copy of the contract, if it will help.
It is a big jump employing. And can add alot of costs. But when done right adds to the business.
Ray

[Ian Lancaster]

If you give them a direct percentage of the value of the work they do (perhaps 70%) then the better and faster they get, the more you will be rewarding them.

Far too much Alex.  After Employers liability - NI - Holiday pay - tools/van/ladders etc etc, you'll be out of pocket.

As a "rule of thumb" the %age should be 35,  although this is a generalisation and allows for such things as business premises etc etc .

For "on site" types of employment it should still be no more than 50% or you'll not make a decent profit and so there's no incentive in it for you.

Some years ago I made the same mistake and at one point I even found myself out working to scrape together enough money to pay my employee

Cheers,

Ian

[Majestic]

I agree with Ian , pay them a % of each job , also x amount if they are not late , and dont have time off .
I had a lad working for me he started off ok but never got any faster .
I see him now and he is working for himself , he would give Turbo Terry a good comp

[Alex Gardiner]

If you give them a direct percentage of the value of the work they do (perhaps 70%) then the better and faster they get, the more you will be rewarding them.

Far too much Alex.  After Employers liability - NI - Holiday pay - tools/van/ladders etc etc, you'll be out of pocket.

As a "rule of thumb" the %age should be 35,  although this is a generalisation and allows for such things as business premises etc etc .

For "on site" types of employment it should still be no more than 50% or you'll not make a decent profit and so there's no incentive in it for you.

Some years ago I made the same mistake and at one point I even found myself out working to scrape together enough money to pay my employee

Cheers,

Ian

When I sub-contract work out (which I do a lot of) I nearly always give them 70-80% of the money. I only give this to the best, most efficient of 'subbies' though.

[Helen]

If you give them a direct percentage of the value of the work they do (perhaps 70%) then the better and faster they get, the more you will be rewarding them.

Far too much Alex.  After Employers liability - NI - Holiday pay - tools/van/ladders etc etc, you'll be out of pocket.

As a "rule of thumb" the %age should be 35,  although this is a generalisation and allows for such things as business premises etc etc .

For "on site" types of employment it should still be no more than 50% or you'll not make a decent profit and so there's no incentive in it for you.

Some years ago I made the same mistake and at one point I even found myself out working to scrape together enough money to pay my employee

Cheers,

Ian

When I sub-contract work out (which I do a lot of) I nearly always give them 70-80% of the money. I only give this to the best, most efficient of 'subbies' though.

You're talking subbing out, Julian is talking employing, which are totally different, we have subbed before and done so at 65% to 75%

[NWH]

If you find someone that can work on there own and do the job to a good standard put them out on there own in a van pay them well and you can`t lose.