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House Angels

  • Posts: 68
Coffee stains
« on: June 21, 2004, 05:17:10 pm »
Guys

Some good advice please.

I have been asked by a client to clean her wool,  light green carpet. When I went to see her it has an horrendous coffee stain. 2' x 2'
When asked about it she stated it has been there three months and her partner tried to get it out using 1001.
She stated that it was ground coffee that spilled hot onto the carpet from a plunger type coffee pot.
Bearing in mind the time factor and that chummy has probably sealed the stain in using 1001.
What is the best way to attack the stain?
PS I use a Ninja HWE

Regards

Tel ???
Terry

Professional service at all times

Glynn

  • Posts: 1129
Re: Coffee stains
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2004, 05:24:20 pm »
Dont do it.
Regards
Glynn

House Angels

  • Posts: 68
Re: Coffee stains
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2004, 05:32:36 pm »
Thanks Glynn, but I was expecting a little more!
but I see where you are coming from!

Tel
Terry

Professional service at all times

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: Coffee stains
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2004, 10:04:05 pm »
if it was an inch square how would you deal with it?

the fact that its 24inches x 24inches makes no differance ;)

if it was a cafetierre then its just coffee ( no milk no sugar). rinse out the 1001 and then start with a coffee stain remover, if no result move up to spray 'n' go

there ends my knowledge :D

lets hope someone else chips in!

Mike
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Robert_O

Re: Coffee stains
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2004, 10:04:25 pm »
Hi Terry

This sounds like it could be quite a problematic stain to deal with, and the limitations should be discussed with the client fully prior to proceeding.

Coffee or tea for that matter are always far more problematic when spilt hot, as apposed to being spilt cold. What happens is that the dye sites within the fibres expand and open up, readily accepting the dye or tannin contained within the hot beverage. Upon cooling the dye sites close up encapulating the tannin dye, and mix with the original dye of the carpet. In effect the carpet fibres are no longer their original colour, and no amount of cleaning can restore the changed formation of the carpet dye, mixed with tannin stain.

The clients use of stain remover products and age of the stain,  I would suggest are of little consequence, as the heat of the beverage would be the main cause of setting the stain into the fibres in this instance.

The first call would be to rinse the stain with an acetic acid, and the remainder would probably require chemical removal procedures using Oxidising or possibly reducing bleaching agents.

When using these sorts of bleaches you are in the realms of high risk in discolouring or taking colour out of the surrounding area of carpet to the stain, especially when treating coloured carpet fibres.

White, or off white fibres can be treated with less risk of the bleaching effect being visual apparent, but a lightening effect is still very probable, and again the client should be informed of the potential risks, preferably in writing prior to proceding.

Unfortunately, the only time we as professionals  can guarantee stain removal is when you take along your Stanley knife!!!

If the stain contained sugar and milk then this may require separate removal procedure for the starch and fats.

I hope that helps in giving a good grounding in understanding what we are up against when dealing with hot dye stains.

Regards

Robert Olifent

Robert_O

Re: Coffee stains
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2004, 10:28:52 pm »
Hi again

I just thought that I would touch on the other side of the equation.

If for example you are dealing with a cold spillage of coffee, then the tannin stain is less likely to penetrate into the structure of the fibre, and the tannin is mainly adherred to the outer parts of the fibre. Therefore the original dye of the carpet has not been affected, and general cleaning will often serve to remove the outer lying stain contaminant.

Additionally if you are dealing with a solution dyed Polypropylene, this will inhibit the tannin from getting into the structure of the fibres and allow greater success rates in it's removal.

There are so many variables in stain removal, and often you have to weigh up what is in its favour and what is not, and convey a balance of probability to the client.

Some considerations:

1. Was it spilt hot or cold?
2. How long has it been there?
3. What has it been previously treated with?
4. What fibres are you dealing with?
5. Are they protected fibres?
6. How concentrated was the beverage?
7. Has the spillage penetrated the backing, and could it have a possible wick back effect on drying?
8. How will the products needed for removal react with the fibres?
9. Has the clients previous attempts at removal overwet and caused a potential Browning problem? If so you need to qualify this with the client and dry the backing thoroughly, otherwise you could get the blame.

Regards


Robert Olifent


House Angels

  • Posts: 68
Re: Coffee stains
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2004, 10:32:29 pm »
Thanks Robert for your insight,
I will let the customer know the probabilities and she can make the decision knwoing the details

Thanks

Tel
Terry

Professional service at all times

Len Gribble

  • Posts: 5106
Re: Coffee stains
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2004, 01:25:28 am »
Terry

Walk a way or give me a call I’m in Sevenoaks Thursday but will need a disclamer.

Len
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other. (Sidcup Kent)

Dave_Lee

  • Posts: 1728
Re: Coffee stains
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2004, 01:02:28 am »
Terry,
Tell her youve seen some nice rugs in the shops.
Sorry to be so blunt, but often this is the only answer in these situations.
Dave.
Dave Lee, Owner of Deepclean Services
Chorley Lancs. Est 1980.
"Pay Cheap -You get Cheap - Pay a little more and get something Better."

Phil Marlor

  • Posts: 678
Re: Coffee stains
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2004, 01:17:52 am »

The only way this stain can be removed is to use a a reducing agent, but if the tea or coffee was hot this will be very difficult to remove.

Also being on a wool carpet makes it even more difficult.

Spray & Go or Helpmate from Chemspec I would say is your only chance but dont hold your breath.

Phil
Stevenage, Herts

LUTON TOWN 3-0 SUNDERLAND

Derek

Re: Coffee stains
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2004, 10:18:46 am »
REMEMBER....

The customer owns the original stain....

using bleaches (oxidising or reducing) my lighten the carpet fibres... if this happens then a 'new' stain has been created... this one you own!

Tread very warily.... although you may warn the customer of a possible lightening of the fibres you can always get a response when it does happen.... "but I didn't think it would lighten 'that' much"!

Cheers
Derek

Robert_O

Re: Coffee stains
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2004, 11:08:08 am »
I believe Terry mentioned he was dealing with a light green wool carpet, so I can only reiterate that the use of bleaching agents could be very risky on dyed wool fibres.

If it is to be attempted the stained area and surrounding area should be wet out  with water to inhibit wicking of the bleaching agents that are applied to the stain its self.

Application of the bleaching agent should be made with a soaked terry towel, and blotted in the stained area only.

Sprays often tend to overshoot the perimetre of the stain which is what must be avoided to prevent that halo effect surrounding the stained area. Also note that often things can tend to look different when wet as apposed to dry.

PRETEST the effects of the products you are considering to use!!!

Good luck!

Regards

Robert Olifent

Dynafoam

Re: Coffee stains
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2004, 07:41:39 pm »
Terry,

A great deal of very sound advice has been given.

There is little left to add to the pot except that when using a soduim metabisulphite reducing agent such as Spray'NGo, or a peroxide bleaching agent where the product is left to dry in to gain maximum effect, there is little chance of performing a complete pre-test without making a separate visit - the risk factor is consequently much greater.

John.

PS. Phill, when using either of these, holding your breath is not a bad idea  ;D