[Ben wood]

After going back and fourth. I'm staying on my own. I have tried but it's not for me. I had a worker he lasted 3days. The next one 5 weeks and then didn't turn up for work. I thing the added stress and all the health and safety crap along with all the employment rubbish def not worth the extra money for me I think I will now plod for the next 30 years before retirement.

What's everyone take on the expanding route

[P @ F]

I had the same , one of mine was a good cleaner but felt he could turn up when he wanted , another was ready for work before i was , but when sent out in his own van he became a splash and dash merchant , i was always very clear that time taken was no big issue if the job was done right .
My downfall was that i was too nice to be a boss !

Some people are not meant to employ others , i think i could be one of them .

Since i had a stroke in January , after my return in March i have had my old man helping out by driving me about and doing some lower windows , we only do 4 hours a day on the glass and go home , the take is much the same as i did on my own , so i think i may try a part timer again , if they are doing the same as me work wise the money should go up enough to warrant the cost , well i may have to if i dont get my license back anyway , time and the DVLA will tell i guess .

Rich

[martinw]

First few didnt last long maybe 3 weeks before they had to go. Took young bloke part time and trained him for few  weeks and let him get on with it slowly. One must be patient and sometimes take a breath in and step back. He made number of mistakes over the years, after all, he is only an employee. It took him a year to get up to speed and standard.
Over the last 4 years i did have countless number of part timers from utter rubbish to really good blokes but unreliable.
Proper selection and interviewing has to be in place to get right candidate. I have made mistakes with some and learned my lesson hard way.
If one passes initial interview and I think he may be ok i will ask him to come out for a test day  turning into a week before committing. Always point out that punctuality and reliability must be there from start. Any signs of tardiness during first few weeks and i will let them go with no second chances.  Try to motivate them with structural pay system with bonuses for no complaints and no off sick etc.
Paperwork and health and safety its  only a small hurdle before you start. There will always be  headaches. In time you learn to ignore most of them. Best of luck.

[Smudger]

Love it,

4 full timers leaves me to concentrate on getting in more work, quoting etc...

Getting good staff is not easy, you as the "boss" need to set the example and have clear and defined rules and regs for working, attitude, dress code,  working practises  etc....

Darran

[NWH]

I think there does come a time though when you need to employ but the extra cost has to be worth the hassle,I also think a lot of people under estimate the amount of work you need with 2 workers that are quick WFP. It's a gamble either way because if you commit to getting the extra work in and employ if you sack that person or they leave you still have the work to get through so you are still in the position of having to get someone else,I think what you pay them makes all the difference,IMO if you pay them what they can get doing almost anything else they in my experience they will not be reliable or loyal to you. I think as long as they have had some experience it only takes a couple of weeks to see whether they will be able to do the job to your satisfaction and can see if you will get on together,the trouble is the more you earn the more it will cost you so you have to decide if the VAT route is going to be to be more profitable for long term

[Ian Lancaster]

10 vans, no employees, no hassle, still no VAT

At least give it some consideration

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=193598.0

[Smudger]

You own the vans then Ian ?

Darran

[Ian Lancaster]

No.

So I don't have to tax/insure/maintain them or pay for fuel

[8weekly]

The thing that doesn't appeal to me about franchising is the amount of vans needed to make the same money. OK, if you are winding down. Ten one man vans should be turning over in the region of £600,000 in the south without busting a gut. Each one should cost around £30k a year to run with one man so a profit of £300,000 or so against less than £80,000 franchised.

[Ian Lancaster]

The thing that doesn't appeal to me about franchising is the amount of vans needed to make the same money. OK, if you are winding down. Ten one man vans should be turning over in the region of £600,000 in the south without busting a gut. Each one should cost around £30k a year to run with one man so a profit of £300,000 or so against less than £80,000 franchised.

At 20% of turnover the income would be £120,000.  Business expenses are minimal.  The real benefit is for people like the OP who would like to expand but don't want the hassle.

Obviously the return is much less, but to manage a company owned fleet of 10 vans with 10 employees would require a dedicated staff and a fully equipped office.  Running a franchised organisation is simple and requires only a few hours a week input from one person, leaving the OP plenty of time to run his own Sole Trader set-up, or in my case to just chill

[NWH]

Lot of hassle for 120 k a year if you ask me,depends on how much you can earn on your own or with just one person helping you. Your not ending up with 120k in your pocket are you,more like 70 k after tax etc

[Smudger]

Franchising is a great option under the right circumstances

Best to look at all the options and choose what suits you best

Darran

[NWH]

I am not knocking anyone for doing it but I know how much 2 of you can do in a day,all I'm saying is to make a big jump you have to get an even bigger jump in return to make it worth the hassle.  Can you imagine how much work you'll need for 10 vans or franchisees

[Smudger]

I can't quite compute your post ? Yes 10 franchisees is a large amount of work, but as the franchisee  is  doing all cleaning work you can go out to the next area building it up ready for the next franchisee,  I can't see that as a huge stumbling block..

Darran

[8weekly]

The thing that doesn't appeal to me about franchising is the amount of vans needed to make the same money. OK, if you are winding down. Ten one man vans should be turning over in the region of £600,000 in the south without busting a gut. Each one should cost around £30k a year to run with one man so a profit of £300,000 or so against less than £80,000 franchised.

At 20% of turnover the income would be £120,000.  Business expenses are minimal.  The real benefit is for people like the OP who would like to expand but don't want the hassle.

Obviously the return is much less, but to manage a company owned fleet of 10 vans with 10 employees would require a dedicated staff and a fully equipped office.  Running a franchised organisation is simple and requires only a few hours a week input from one person, leaving the OP plenty of time to run his own Sole Trader set-up, or in my case to just chill

It's kind of academic and a bit irrelevant but your 10 vans aren't pulling in that amount otherwise you would be over the VAT threshold. I'm guessing most work part time. The downside would be that you have to find more franchisees than needed to cover the work. I'd imagine that's quite a lot of work. Finding, recruiting and training.

[Smudger]

Not sure that's true,  the franchisee pays the % regardless if he has carried out the work or not so Ian's income is set and guaranteed

But as you point out with 10 on the go, I'd expect vat registration to have happened

Darran

[NWH]

Yeah cos if you weren't VAT registered what would be the point in doing it you wouldn't be earning around the 80 k mark if what you say can be event is true,with a good high end domestic round it doesn't take long to go over the VAT limit there's only so much you can do to stay under it

[Smudger]

Each individual would be paying the vat, as a single man I think you'd be hard pressed to hit the vat threshold you could achieve 60k.

Darran

[NWH]

So 1200 a week which like i said is easily achievable on your own let alone with 2 of you,so to have say 10 franchises each paying you 200 a week fee for just getting the work is a lot of hassle setting up and a headache to run if you ask me.IMO it would be more profitable to have a couple of vans out and paying them a good wage and just doing high end work.