[Tom White]

I've been using a 115 AMP hour leisure battery, with a two man system, but it's given me nothing but problems, but trying to identify where they exactly are isn't easy.

I also use two flow controllers, one a cleaning warehouse one and the other a digital variflow.  Now, when the battery has been used for about two hours, the digital variflow will stop at fast flow settings (it's okay on lower settings, but I don't like to work like this) and it will give a "U" on the display, which I'm pretty sure is 'Undercharge', yet when I push both buttons together I get two bars, indicating that the battery is okay, but needs some charge.

The cleaning warehouse flow controller works fine throughout.

I've solved the problems by getting another leisure battery and I run each pump and controller from each separate battery and it now goes great guns.  I've also shortened all my wires to the 'correct' length for my system; prior to which they were really quite long.

So, here's my question...

How many Amps does each shurflow pump pull per hour?  And shouldn't one 115 Amp hour leisure battery be enough to run two pumps for six hours per day?

[Lee GLS]

115amp battery should last you a few days. The shurflow pupms are either 5 or 7 amps running flat out, so with a controller they should be drawing less.

When the varistream flashes U, what does the voltage on the cleaning warehouse one read when you push the enter button?

Have you checked the wires and connectors coming from the varistream to make sure the are all making good contact?

[matthewprice]

i also used a variflow found the same problem battery was showing low 2bar then cut out. changed to the other controller all was fine.i think the variflow must have a high cut off ,dont know if you can change the cut off on these controllers

[Tom White]

115amp battery should last you a few days. The shurflow pupms are either 5 or 7 amps running flat out, so with a controller they should be drawing less.

Thanks, that's useful to know.

When the varistream flashes U, what does the voltage on the cleaning warehouse one read when you push the enter button?

I'll check it on Monday.

Have you checked the wires and connectors coming from the varistream to make sure the are all making good contact?

I've just redone the lot.  It's possible that there was a problem there (only a couple of wires were attached to my alligator clip), but it's hard to tell if that was the problem since I bought a new leisure battery last week.  Maybe I used a sledgehammer to crack a walnut?

I'll check it out on Monday; thanks.

[Dave Willis]

How old is the battery? Mine fail after about a year.

[traps7]

I had this problem after I bought a new pump controller ended up changing everything. Battery, controller, pump and eventually even the wiring because it was the only thing left that hadn't been replaced.
Problem was I replaced the wiring with the same cable I had before which was 1mm house flex for neatness and quickness. Turned out this wasn't man enough and I was getting a voltage drop under load which after no time was causing my controller to flash 'bat'. I had been using that cable ever since I started over 2 and a half years ago. New pump controller was more sensitive to battery being low though. I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. I was sure my wiring was fine but I had changed everything else so it had to be. I dont think cable length will give enough voltage drop unless your driving something the length of a bus. I would definatley try some thicker cable.
Mine all works perfect now.

[Tom White]

How old is the battery? Mine fail after about a year.

It's about a year now; but it's really well looked after; charged everyday with an intelligent type charger, and it was a quality battery.

[Window Washers]

How old is the battery? Mine fail after about a year.

It's about a year now; but it's really well looked after; charged everyday with an intelligent type charger, and it was a quality battery.

had the same problem with leisure batteries, so now use car batteries instead, they are imo over priced and do not last with this kind of useage, I used to charge mine every day, still got the same problems. I too use 2 pumps to controllers, one digi one normal, the digi one is/was a pain in the backside cutting out say BATT

[Tom White]

How old is the battery? Mine fail after about a year.

It's about a year now; but it's really well looked after; charged everyday with an intelligent type charger, and it was a quality battery.

had the same problem with leisure batteries, so now use car batteries instead, they are imo over priced and do not last with this kind of useage, I used to charge mine every day, still got the same problems. I too use 2 pumps to controllers, one digi one normal, the digi one is/was a pain in the backside cutting out say BATT

Just a normal car battery?  Does that last you for a full day?  Are they much cheaper than a leisure battery?

I tried to get a reconditioned van battery (I read someone on this forum uses them and got two for a tenner each), but I was told no-one reconditions them these days and they just end up down the tip.

[Window Washers]

How old is the battery? Mine fail after about a year.

It's about a year now; but it's really well looked after; charged everyday with an intelligent type charger, and it was a quality battery.

had the same problem with leisure batteries, so now use car batteries instead, they are imo over priced and do not last with this kind of useage, I used to charge mine every day, still got the same problems. I too use 2 pumps to controllers, one digi one normal, the digi one is/was a pain in the backside cutting out say BATT

Just a normal car battery?  Does that last you for a full day?  Are they much cheaper than a leisure battery?

I tried to get a reconditioned van battery (I read someone on this forum uses them and got two for a tenner each), but I was told no-one reconditions them these days and they just end up down the tip.

sorry Van battery )or big car I have twin batteries in one of my vans that charge via duel charge, the other is a standard van battery I can remember the sixe but can look in the moring for you, and yes last all day (not part time hours, 8.30 till 4.30 daily

I only buy new batteries, if they fail I lose a load of money so not imo worth the risk

[dazmond]

ive never had any pump or battery problems in 2 years of wfp.i use a pure freedom trolley.i keep hearing about leisure batteries not being too good but mines been excellent.ive even got 3 and a half days work out of it without charge.

i normally charge it up every night for a few hours.it a 85ah leisure battery(i think!).

[Mike #1]

How old is the battery? Mine fail after about a year.

It's about a year now; but it's really well looked after; charged everyday with an intelligent type charger, and it was a quality battery.

had the same problem with leisure batteries, so now use car batteries instead, they are imo over priced and do not last with this kind of useage, I used to charge mine every day, still got the same problems. I too use 2 pumps to controllers, one digi one normal, the digi one is/was a pain in the backside cutting out say BATT

Just a normal car battery?  Does that last you for a full day?  Are they much cheaper than a leisure battery?

I tried to get a reconditioned van battery (I read someone on this forum uses them and got two for a tenner each), but I was told no-one reconditions them these days and they just end up down the tip.

Get yourself down the tip then tosh , 

A mate of mine knows the lads who work at our local tip and they are happy to let him a have a couple of batteries for a fee before they go off to be recycled .


Personally i would rather buy a new battery .  MIKE

[Lee GLS]

We run 2 pumps from a secondhand battery from a local motor factors, it's a 70ah battery, but lasts us all day and more. But it gets charged for an hour each night, but we have a split charger on the van.

Its will be his and miss wether you get a good battery or not, but I got mine free, so it didn't matter.

[spongebob]

How old is the battery? Mine fail after about a year.

It's about a year now; but it's really well looked after; charged everyday with an intelligent type charger, and it was a quality battery.

had the same problem with leisure batteries, so now use car batteries instead, they are imo over priced and do not last with this kind of useage, I used to charge mine every day, still got the same problems. I too use 2 pumps to controllers, one digi one normal, the digi one is/was a pain in the backside cutting out say BATT

Just a normal car battery?  Does that last you for a full day?  Are they much cheaper than a leisure battery?

I tried to get a reconditioned van battery (I read someone on this forum uses them and got two for a tenner each), but I was told no-one reconditions them these days and they just end up down the tip.

Hi Tosh.
A normal battery will work fine.
i use a battery from an 03 transit diesel. I upgraded it in 04 and it stood for 6 years uncharged in my garage. I do not run a split charge but charge it after three days use.
If you buy one of these you can always check the voltage on your batteries yourself. http://www.maplin.co.uk/domestic-multimeter-37279
 I think a leisure battery is the better choice as they discharge their power more evenly. I would recommend a normal diesel van battery if you can get one from a garage that has been taken off a vehicle. It may no longer be up to starting a van but will do for a pump. Probs only need to give them the scrap value.
Using your tester above you can see which one is holding the most power still.
Also using a test meter when your controller plays up you can test the voltage straight away. If it keeps doing it at the same voltage then you can be sure it is just set at a high failure voltage as has been said above.
When fully charged any 12v large battery should read about 12.8v. When your van is running the charge at the battery will read in the 13's up to 14. A good battery will drop to 11.5 ish on turning of the key but will pop straight back up when started. Most ignition systems need 10.8 or above to work. A battery that fails to start a van can still take and hold 12 or above. When they get to about 11.8 and dropping you will notice a significant change in pump power and a rapid decline.

[Ian Sheppard]

I had this problem after I bought a new pump controller ended up changing everything. Battery, controller, pump and eventually even the wiring because it was the only thing left that hadn't been replaced.
Problem was I replaced the wiring with the same cable I had before which was 1mm house flex for neatness and quickness. Turned out this wasn't man enough and I was getting a voltage drop under load which after no time was causing my controller to flash 'bat'. I had been using that cable ever since I started over 2 and a half years ago. New pump controller was more sensitive to battery being low though. I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. I was sure my wiring was fine but I had changed everything else so it had to be. I dont think cable length will give enough voltage drop unless your driving something the length of a bus. I would definatley try some thicker cable.
Mine all works perfect now.

The Controls are set to flash Bat at 11.5V and shut down at 11V. Volt drop along the cable can cause issues as will the quality of any connections.
The recommendation is use the connectors supplied to ensure a good connection between control pump and battery. Also keep the cables as short as possible,

The control measures voltage at the control so long cables will show a higher drop off. The control monitors the voltage over quite a short period. The voltage would only need to dip below 11V for 1/2 a second or less for the control to detect low voltage and shut sown.

The question of how long will a 115amp battery last - It is difficult to answer precisely as each set up and system is different.

Lee is spot on that 7amp is the max with most pumps running flat out.  as a general rule we find the draw is between 3 - 5amps unless you have a webasto heater where initial start up draw can be as high as 9amps.

Remember that as the battery ampage drops so does the voltage in the cells so with most pump controls you will never run the battery absolutely flat this will also affect how long each charge will last. Even ambient air temp will have an effect.
Colder water runs slower so the pump works harder to achieve the same flow.

Ian

[Spruce]

I had this problem after I bought a new pump controller ended up changing everything. Battery, controller, pump and eventually even the wiring because it was the only thing left that hadn't been replaced.
Problem was I replaced the wiring with the same cable I had before which was 1mm house flex for neatness and quickness. Turned out this wasn't man enough and I was getting a voltage drop under load which after no time was causing my controller to flash 'bat'. I had been using that cable ever since I started over 2 and a half years ago. New pump controller was more sensitive to battery being low though. I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. I was sure my wiring was fine but I had changed everything else so it had to be. I dont think cable length will give enough voltage drop unless your driving something the length of a bus. I would definatley try some thicker cable.
Mine all works perfect now.

The Controls are set to flash Bat at 11.5V and shut down at 11V. Volt drop along the cable can cause issues as will the quality of any connections.
The recommendation is use the connectors supplied to ensure a good connection between control pump and battery. Also keep the cables as short as possible,

The control measures voltage at the control so long cables will show a higher drop off. The control monitors the voltage over quite a short period. The voltage would only need to dip below 11V for 1/2 a second or less for the control to detect low voltage and shut sown.

The question of how long will a 115amp battery last - It is difficult to answer precisely as each set up and system is different.

Lee is spot on that 7amp is the max with most pumps running flat out.  as a general rule we find the draw is between 3 - 5amps unless you have a webasto heater where initial start up draw can be as high as 9amps.

Remember that as the battery ampage drops so does the voltage in the cells so with most pump controls you will never run the battery absolutely flat this will also affect how long each charge will last. Even ambient air temp will have an effect.
Colder water runs slower so the pump works harder to achieve the same flow.

Ian

Can I also add to Ian's post.

The new Varistream has a display that will identify how fully charged the leisure battery is. As you refer to these bars you must have this model Varistream. Whilst I have been one of Varistream's biggest fans, I do have a problem with this unit.

If you disconnect and reconnect the battery terminal, do you get a small spark and a 'clunk' sound on your pump motor? If you do then the charge you are putting into your van battery is being drained away overnight and over the weekend as this controller is always 'live'. On a fully charged  85 amp battery, we were down to 75% within a week of the van remaining idle.

Williamson's have advised me that the drain on the battery is minimal, but this isn't our experience.
I put an isolator switch between the battery and the Varistream to cut the current to it completely and now don't have a flat battery issue. In fact son in laws alternator via his split charge relay keeps the battery pretty much fully charged.

I used a switch similar to this one as an isolator switch.

http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrical/switches-sockets/outdoor-switches-sockets/core_electrical/-specificproducttype-single_switch/HEC-Single-2-Way-Switch-20A-9372965?icamp=recs

Spruce

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

I was using a dial varistream and a digital controller (liquid logic) up until recently. I found that the digital unit would drop the voltage on the battery much more than the old varistream. You could even run the old varistream on boost and it wouldn't make the battery voltage drop as much as the digital controller on half power.

The 2 units must limit the power going to the pump using 2 different methods, or the digital unit just takes more power to run. I've now switched back to using 2 old varistreams and am finding that the battery lasts all day and the flow is better.

I think on my next set up I might just buy slightly smaller pumps that are already the correct flow with pressure switches and just turn them on and off, less complications.

Simon.

[keith b]

Tosh,

If you have got a few pounds to spare, it might be worth looking at buying a 10 amp (max 20 amp)`intelligent split charger relay`that can be run off off a solar panel. Look on ebay and type-in 330528191980 at £19.99 - you will also need to buy a solar regulator and solar panel = this sytem will charge both your vehicle battery and leisure battery (but prioritise the battery that needs charging first) without having to rely on your vehicles alternator!

[matthewprice]

i found that the 3 bar variflow was cutting out way before 11.5 v lucky to get 2 or 3 daysout of the 110amp battery when i changed the variflow to the other make of digital controller the same set up lasts 5 days easily we were also taking out the fuse,and all wires were very short.also GET A GEL BATTERY,last 3 weeks