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H S and Son

Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #60 on: April 28, 2012, 10:55:44 am »
What's the difference between suing someone then and making a claim Pristine? I think in legal terms effectively they're the same thing.

Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #61 on: April 28, 2012, 12:48:46 pm »
Hi Matt
But there not are they, insurance is in place for both situations, a claim is a REQUEST, for compensation, sueing is I AM COMING TO GET AS MUCH AS I CAN  YOUR POSSESIONS IF NEED BE. Thats the difference

andyM

  • Posts: 6100
Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #62 on: April 28, 2012, 01:00:56 pm »

    OH YEAH BROKE THE LAW, WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON    
          


 

so what is the WHAD 2005 and 2007?
as its not a law then the HSE cannot take anyone to court for breaking it, that will be good news to the many hundreds of companys who have been found guilty of breaking it and fined.

I also remember a few years ago, a young lad in Brighton had an accident and fell from his ladder and broke his spine, he is now in a wheelchair.

He had full insurance cover, but they quoted the WHAD and said he should have used alternative equipment and never paid him a penny.

and yes you are sueing, making a claim and they say no, do you go ok, and leave it, no you don't, your solicitor will take it all the way to court, that is called sueing

sometimes having a accident does not make it right to get a claim out of it, especially if I have to pay for it, and at the moment I am paying 30% more on my insurance because of these claims.

No offence Pure Hydro but I have seen you quote WHAD a few times in various posts.
To my knowledge there are no WHAD regulations in force?
Although WAHR (Working At Height Regulations) are applicable to our trade.
One of the Plebs

Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #63 on: April 28, 2012, 02:29:59 pm »
no idea about whad, but if your telling me that because he used a step ladder he BROKE THE LAW, then we are all breaking the law every day ???  aint we?

stuart mc

  • Posts: 7775
Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #64 on: April 28, 2012, 03:33:50 pm »
no idea about whad, but if your telling me that because he used a step ladder he BROKE THE LAW, then we are all breaking the law every day ???  aint we?

If you don't know what WHAD is you really shouldn't be giving advice really, as he clearly broke the rules as do I often, but I wouldn't try claim for my own stupidity

H S and Son

Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #65 on: April 28, 2012, 04:00:55 pm »
It's WAHD fellas  ;D

Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #66 on: April 28, 2012, 05:04:11 pm »
what, because he used a step ladder to reach a low level window, he is stupid.are you saying that as he uses wfp, he is not allowed to use a stepladder, now that is BOLLxxxx, the only real advice that i gave was dont listen to us, but get pro advice.
not like you though eh , lets just call him stupid, thanks for your usual
 input. at least i am trying to help and i do think that many of you are too serious about  almost everything on this forum,  you just take things tooooo  literally
Alan

H S and Son

Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #67 on: April 28, 2012, 05:40:21 pm »
Pristine the use of ladders is outlawed if there is a feasible alternative.

Failure to use that feasible alternative will in the eyes of insurance companies render him unable to sue or claim. If you have an accident in a car and you are driving with undue care and attention you wont be able to make a claim. Its the same the world over.

Inusrance companies will simply turn round and say 'He needn't have had that accident, it was his fault he didnt use the safer alternative, end of story'.

Window Washers

  • Posts: 9036
Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #68 on: April 28, 2012, 05:43:18 pm »
no idea about whad, but if your telling me that because he used a step ladder he BROKE THE LAW, then we are all breaking the law every day ???  aint we?
if there is an accident then yes, unless this is footed by someone else or the right safety equipment is used to secure it, it is all within the wording. just like ladders are not banned, just if you use them incorrectly then fall it is your fault
If your not willing to learn, No one can help you, If you are determined to learn, No one can stop you ;)

Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2012, 06:34:48 pm »

    OH YEAH BROKE THE LAW, WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON    
          


 

so what is the WHAD 2005 and 2007?
as its not a law then the HSE cannot take anyone to court for breaking it, that will be good news to the many hundreds of companys who have been found guilty of breaking it and fined.

I also remember a few years ago, a young lad in Brighton had an accident and fell from his ladder and broke his spine, he is now in a wheelchair.

He had full insurance cover, but they quoted the WHAD and said he should have used alternative equipment and never paid him a penny.

and yes you are sueing, making a claim and they say no, do you go ok, and leave it, no you don't, your solicitor will take it all the way to court, that is called sueing

sometimes having a accident does not make it right to get a claim out of it, especially if I have to pay for it, and at the moment I am paying 30% more on my insurance because of these claims.

No offence Pure Hydro but I have seen you quote WHAD a few times in various posts.
To my knowledge there are no WHAD regulations in force?
Although WAHR (Working At Height Regulations) are applicable to our trade.

You are correct I always mix the letters up :P but I never use a ladder or step ladder, why bother when my pole does the climbing

Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #70 on: April 28, 2012, 06:40:17 pm »
sue the wife , and then move in with the custy .  sorted

stuart mc

  • Posts: 7775
Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2012, 08:28:47 pm »
It's WAHD fellas  ;D

dohh ;D

Pristine go google the rules, then give advice

Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #72 on: April 29, 2012, 01:33:38 am »
nope cant find anything about wahd sorry.
ah but now i see, you mean work at height regs.
if you had said that,     then.
ok     nope, sorry, still cannot see how he BROKE THE LAW, or a REGULATION  that states if you use wfp then you can NOT, use a step ladder .
none of us saw how he used that  ladder ,so cannot state that he broke any law or regulation,remember, he fell to one side because he felt dizzy, not because he was lazy or stupid.     
 PHEW     there I rest my case mlord
Alan

idealrob

  • Posts: 666
Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #73 on: April 29, 2012, 09:24:05 am »
Was the ladder secured, that is the law. If you do a job with out working from the ground eg a pole, a full written risk assesment has to be done for each job, thats the law. Was the ladder numbered & recorded in an inspection book, was it a trade ladder, the list goes on.

Here is the link from How Do They Affect Window Cleaners?
http://www.professionalwindowcleaner.co.uk/wahd.html


Even before the regulations were published, the consultation document made it clear that they would have a profound impact on window cleaners. There are few other trades where work at height, in particular the use of ladders, plays such an integral part of the working process.

Put simply, the regulations say that if a task can reasonably be done without the need to work at height, then it must be done that way.

They also require that when ladders are used (and a risk assessment must show that work at height was unavoidable) then those ladders must be "secured".The Regulations and Water-Fed Pole Systems
An obvious question that arises is how does the advent of water-fed pole systems affect window cleaners in light of the new regulations? The answer is somewhat complex.

It is now illegal to work at height where a risk assessment would show that it is reasonably practical to complete the task from the safety of the ground.

Its a simple fact that the vast majority of window cleaning work can now be done without the need to work at height by using a water-fed pole system. As using a system is almost always faster (and therefore more efficient) than using ladders, and can clean to greater heights than is possible from ladders, it would be very hard to argue that using a water-fed pole was not "reasonably practical" in the majority of cases.

This takes on a particularly serious dimension for employers who could be prosecuted under the new regulations if their worker has an accident while using ladders for a cleaning task that could have been done with water-fed pole.

The HSE has promised more guidance on what it would consider to be "reasonably practcable" in the context of the regulations, but this has not yet been produced.

All Ladders Must Be "Secured" - What Does That Mean?
Schedule 6 of the regulations require that when ladders are used, they must be "secured", and then goes on to describe specifically how that is to be done.


1)"Securing the Stiles"
For example, tying them using straps or chords to an existing structure (eg scaffolding). This method is not practical for most window cleaning

2)"An effective anti-slip or other effective stability device"
For example a rojak stopper or ladder leveller. More than one device may needed.

3)"Any other arrangement of equivalent effectiveness"
This may include having another person 'foot' the ladder as a last resort

The law and guidence is there for those who want to look, others just make excuses, with a wont happen to me attitude.

the simple fact is its law, we use it , we are safer and earn more money quicker, great, imagine having to do a written risk assesment for every individual job, when using a ladder ?

idealrob






Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #74 on: April 29, 2012, 04:30:42 pm »
nice one Rob,
Alan

idealrob

  • Posts: 666
Re: Had an accident ..what would you do ????
« Reply #75 on: April 29, 2012, 09:22:10 pm »
nice one Rob,
Alan

See you can learn something on here, just most ignore it till it ends in shattered lives

idealrob