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John Hewitt

  • Posts: 28
naughty employee
« on: March 30, 2012, 08:39:35 pm »
This is something that must have happened to a few window cleaners. What would you do if you found that one of your employees was building his own round which he was working unknown to you and was canvassing customers while in your time, on pay and in your uniform.  One prospective customer when asked for a quote was given 2 prices. One for us to do it and one for him to do it and that is how I found out what he was up to.
He of course denies it but it does explain why he has taken odd days off without warning or reason.
I feel a tribunal coming on.
He has signed a contract which includes the agreement that he shall do nothing while employed by me to prejudice my business so as well as being morally wrong he is stealing a wage and has broken the terms of his contract.

Frankybadboy

  • Posts: 9024
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2012, 08:40:53 pm »
only one thing to do,and you know what it is.

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2491
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2012, 08:47:34 pm »
This is something that must have happened to a few window cleaners. What would you do if you found that one of your employees was building his own round which he was working unknown to you and was canvassing customers while in your time, on pay and in your uniform.  One prospective customer when asked for a quote was given 2 prices. One for us to do it and one for him to do it and that is how I found out what he was up to.
He of course denies it but it does explain why he has taken odd days off without warning or reason.
I feel a tribunal coming on.
He has signed a contract which includes the agreement that he shall do nothing while employed by me to prejudice my business so as well as being morally wrong he is stealing a wage and has broken the terms of his contract.

sack him immediately and threaten him with court action if he uses your customer records to approach your customers.  its illegal due to data protection. 

regarding his wages outstanding i would immediately not pay him any bonuses or commission he might normally get, and i would seriously consider cutting his wages for time you think he was not working.  i;d also not pay him outstanding holidays (not legal but i;d try it)  ;)
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

bad trippy

  • Posts: 3268
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2012, 09:14:59 pm »
only one thing to do,and you know what it is.
give him a good kicking?
www.clearviewbristol.co.uk
Add me on Facebook clear view window cleaning

colin purewater

  • Posts: 2282
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2012, 09:27:41 pm »
What he on an hour?
keep it simple

Smudger

  • Posts: 13459
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2012, 09:34:48 pm »
defo gross misconduct and immediate dismissal.

depending on your contact you could sue him if he's actually been working on windows
when i worked for a motor racing company, part of the contract was if i left i could not discuss/use info
gained from my employment and i could not join a rival company for a period of six months.

Darran
Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience

Jackal

  • Posts: 1088
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2012, 09:37:26 pm »
who was it who grassed me up john i want give them a good kicking myself  >:(

and cheers richard speech,at least i will get all my holidays pay now  ;)

Granny

  • Posts: 824
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2012, 09:40:17 pm »
I'd give him 10 out of 10 for showing initiative  :)

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2491
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2012, 09:43:51 pm »
who was it who grassed me up john i want give them a good kicking myself  >:(

and cheers richard speech,at least i will get all my holidays pay now  ;)

crikey, if it was you then he must have been in a coma if he didnt notice you getting your business set up until now!
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

dave f

Re: naughty employee
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2012, 08:00:46 am »
shows how thick he is canvasing in your uniform id of got changed. lol, 2 diferrent quotes ,get rid cant be trusted what else has he done with out you knowing may be nicked odd bit of tackle to get set up??

Ian101

  • Posts: 7889
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2012, 08:09:17 am »
This is something you cant really stop happening ..ok not on your time of course but any employee with half a brain cell is going to think about doing this at some point.

I dont employ proper yet but any one I ever do will be helped and encouraged to do their own business in an area away from mine .. I will help and advise and even pass em a few customers that are out of my way .... rather have a friend than an enemy.

Think you need to sit him down and get some ground rules in place offer to help on his time a little .... and buy a van tracker as well and let him know its tracked.

Londoner

Re: naughty employee
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2012, 08:23:08 am »
This is something you cant really stop happening ..ok not on your time of course but any employee with half a brain cell is going to think about doing this at some point.

I dont employ proper yet but any one I ever do will be helped and encouraged to do their own business in an area away from mine .. I will help and advise and even pass em a few customers that are out of my way .... rather have a friend than an enemy.

Think you need to sit him down and get some ground rules in place offer to help on his time a little .... and buy a van tracker as well and let him know its tracked.

I'm with Ian, its inevetable, every time you take on an employee you are training a potential rival.

Roy Harding

  • Posts: 1986
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2012, 09:25:36 am »
If he is employed by you and you are taking p.a.y.e ect. And if has signed a restrictive covenant, then you should confront him show him were he is breaking your contract, and ask for his round sheets off him and in exchange you will not pursue  him for damages. And when he hands them over dismiss him.
      Of course if he has no money, you cant get blood out of a stone.

However if he is self-employed not a lot you can do, as you cannot stop him earning his living. But you can stop using him to do your work. 

Unfortunately it seems to be part of the course in window cleaning.

Roy

windowcleaninginessex.co.uk

  • Posts: 716
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2012, 12:01:11 pm »
only one thing to do,and you know what it is.
give him a good kicking?

Does this mean, that the bloke that done the sign writing on your van need a good kicking, because he has done exactly the same. Seems when it suits, its ok to do a bit on the side...
---THE BEST YOU CAN GET---
www.windowcleaninginessex.co.uk

steve rix

  • Posts: 816
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2012, 01:14:11 pm »
Get rid! We have a restraint of trade clause in our contracts, no one who leaves our employ can work as, work for, act as an agent (paid or unpaid) a window cleaner in any of the geographical areas that we cover. If they did we would sue them for 100% of theit turnover + damages

Window Washers

  • Posts: 9036
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2012, 01:30:13 pm »
Get rid! We have a restraint of trade clause in our contracts, no one who leaves our employ can work as, work for, act as an agent (paid or unpaid) a window cleaner in any of the geographical areas that we cover. If they did we would sue them for 100% of theit turnover + damages
you may find by law this is not inforceable, or I guess it is not worded that they cannot work in any geographical area that you cover.

The reason for this is as far as I am aware you cannot restrict where someone works

I went to a solicitor in regards to this when I worked for an internet company they had a restrictive covenant in my contract , sadly they overlooked the fact that I lived to near where I work rendering thier contract null and void for the reason I would be unable to work as this was my trade.
You can however stop them from targeting your client base for a time period

maybe things have changed now, and would be interested to know the legal facts on this,


I have took this from a site to help you and others ::

How to enforce a restraint of trade clause in an employment contract
Introduction
Restraint of trade clauses are becoming increasingly common in employment contracts. A typical clause will prohibit a former employee from working in a specific area of employment in a specific geographical area for a limited period of time. These clauses are enforced by suing the ex-employee, usually in the Employment Court.

The purpose of a restraint of trade clause is to prevent the employee from later using the employer’s trade secrets or confidential information to aid one of the employer’s competitors.

What action can I take to enforce the clause?
If you believe that an ex-employee is breaching a restraint of trade clause, you can bring proceedings for breach of contract. If the clause is in an employment contract the Employment Court has exclusive jurisdiction to deal with your claim.

How will the court decide the issue?
Formerly the courts were reluctant to enforce restraint of trade clauses, on the grounds that an individual’s right to work should not be limited. But this attitude has been relaxed and now the courts will look at the restrictions imposed by the clause and the general history of the ex-employee’s period of employment.

However, the starting point is that the clause is assumed to be invalid, and you, the ex-employer, have the burden of showing that the clause is reasonable and should be upheld.

In deciding whether the restraint should be enforced, the courts will consider whether it is:

unfairly restrictive
essential to protect your business interests
against the public interest
In general the greater the restraint – whether in terms of geographical area, time or the type of business – the more likely the court will be to hold that the restraint clause is invalid.
.


Ian
If your not willing to learn, No one can help you, If you are determined to learn, No one can stop you ;)

CLEANCARE WC

  • Posts: 4454
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2012, 01:37:36 pm »
defo gross misconduct and immediate dismissal.

depending on your contact you could sue him if he's actually been working on windows
when i worked for a motor racing company, part of the contract was if i left i could not discuss/use info
gained from my employment and i could not join a rival company for a period of six months.

Darran

Lotus?
WE CLEAN BY FAITH, NOT BY SIGHT WITH WATER FED POLE WHEN WORKING AT HEIGHT.

Frankybadboy

  • Posts: 9024
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2012, 07:31:01 pm »
only one thing to do,and you know what it is.
give him a good kicking?

Does this mean, that the bloke that done the sign writing on your van need a good kicking, because he has done exactly the same. Seems when it suits, its ok to do a bit on the side...
::) ::) ::) ::) poor trippy ::)

bobby p

Re: naughty employee
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2012, 08:54:57 pm »
i usually remind my lads how much it costs for insurance,van costs and  work clothing  blah blah ,just so its in their mind its not cheap to do it properly to put them off

having said that,its too late with your lad,best get rid now before he devastates your business

keyser soze

  • Posts: 1694
Re: naughty employee
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2012, 09:39:08 pm »
inevitable ....cant believe that anyone who employs people who does the work / plans the round / collects the money / develops relations with custys will eventually think that they might as well do it for themselves. ask yourself what would you do in their position