[L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner]

Mike,mmmmmm,this is a tough one,or could be.At least the
Value of the rug is only £300 and it is 2 years old.
This is the `snag`from your point.
What has happened is of a direct result of your actions….ie.
The cleaning process and your cleaning method.
Your `saving grace`could be the urine,which we all as cleaners
Know is `potent`.
It could be the urine,it`s difficult without seeing it,can you get any
`pics`down for us to look at ?
Depending upon your individual customers attitude towards the rug
And yourself,you`ll soon be `throwing good time and money`after bad.
Your really in a better position than I was with that suite ( too long a
`diatribe`to go into in an e,mail )
Don`t `bank`on Next being liable for an item deemed to be unclean able
For the reason stated above.
At this point in time let someone else do the chasing around and see what
Happens and take it from there.


Lewis  Doubtfire

[John Kelly]

Write a letter to the customer explaining the method you used and products (I presume you used a woolsafe product). Explain that the method used would not cause damage to a rug unless there was either a fault or the rug had been degraded in some way prior to your clean. State that you accept no responsibility for the damge caused. See what happens.
As for Servicemaster he's only a carpet cleaner just like you and I doubt very much he has had any training in identifying faults in carpets and rugs. As for his report if she wants to take this any further I would demand to see a copy and find out exactly how he says the cleaning process has damaged the rug.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi guys

I have quite a lot of experience of degradation of adhesives having worked with them for 6 years when a chemist.

It sounds to me like there is a problem with the manufacture, poor wet strength is a classic sign that the adhesive was not cured properly.

It would be relatively easy to make an assessment of the wet strength.

Cheers

doug

[mike roberts]

thks for all your comments and I will do as John suggests by writting  a letter to the customer...... will ask for copy of report and I like the idea of asking SM to clean rug interesting to here their response!....I will only use insurance as last resort

It does seem strange that its been myself having to chase the customer intially to here the response from Next and then to find out what SM said. SM viewed the rug on the 9th .... (I have been away) had to chase customer yesterday to find out their response. It seems I am more concerned than customer crazy.

Again thks for comments

[Carpet Dawg]

I managed to get a young "asian" couple off my back a few months back with a letter from me stating that my methods, equipment, chems etc would have not caused the stain on the carpet etc << I wrote alot more than that of course!

Thanks to John Kelly for his advice at the time.

[Jim_77]

What postcode area of Bedfordshire is the customer in?

[mike roberts]

What postcode area of Bedfordshire is the customer in?

LU6 2PQ

[Hilton]

If Servicemaster is blaming your cleaning as being at fault which is an easy wy out , ask them to clean an area themselves an see what happens . They probaly assume yu have used a solvent which has affected the latex.
Mike

If SM carried out a proper examination they would have done this, otherwise the 'report' is meaningless.

SM carry no more weight in their 'opinion' (and it is only an opinion) than anybody else,

I have come up against these cheque book report merchants more times than I care to remember and it is oh so easy to pull them to pieces.

You have to get an independent report done. and let them know you are going to do this, to ascertain the cause of the damage. Its blindingly obvious that NEXT are not going to accept responsibility and their paid 'agents Servicemaster' are going to come down on their side.

If it transpired that you cocked it up then so be it you will have to pay for it, but there could be loads of reasons why the backing has deteriorated including (and I am sure they will not own up to it any way) them applying urine remover or similar before you got there.

[mike roberts]

What postcode area of Bedfordshire is the customer in?

Jim hope you dont mind me asking    as a SM operator when you carry out reports
in this type of incident would you of carried out a partial wet clean??

[Jim_77]

SM will have been contacted by the insurance company to make a judgement.
It's just the way it works.

Next have a national account with SM, we act as their "eyes and ears" if any complaints/issues arise concerning fabrics/furnishings supplied to customers.

If I was sent a job like this I would simply report the facts.  You can't speculate.  Absolutely pointless appointing a SM franchisee to go out and look at it in my opinion, but you have to remember that big companies like Next have a flow-chart their call handlers follow to resolve customer issues.  The action probably didn't fit the problem in this case.

Common sense would dictate that the rug should have been returned to the manufacturer via Next.

There are different sets of specific instructions for each national account, but we are often instructed not to attempt to "re-create" any alleged damage, simply to report the facts

What is a "report"?  I think we have to make a distinction between an expert analysis, some sort of forensic science type thing, and simply a visit to collect facts (which is what most reports like this are).  You have to remember that up until this point, Next only have the say-so of a disgruntled customer, therefore they use a third party to go and look at the problem and report back, along with photos.

p.s. don't know the guy from that area so can't find anything out for you unfortunately

[mike roberts]

SM will have been contacted by the insurance company to make a judgement.
It's just the way it works.

Next have a national account with SM, we act as their "eyes and ears" if any complaints/issues arise concerning fabrics/furnishings supplied to customers.

If I was sent a job like this I would simply report the facts.  You can't speculate.  Absolutely pointless appointing a SM franchisee to go out and look at it in my opinion, but you have to remember that big companies like Next have a flow-chart their call handlers follow to resolve customer issues.  The action probably didn't fit the problem in this case.

Common sense would dictate that the rug should have been returned to the manufacturer via Next.

There are different sets of specific instructions for each national account, but we are often instructed not to attempt to "re-create" any alleged damage, simply to report the facts

What is a "report"?  I think we have to make a distinction between an expert analysis, some sort of forensic science type thing, and simply a visit to collect facts (which is what most reports like this are).  You have to remember that up until this point, Next only have the say-so of a disgruntled customer, therefore they use a third party to go and look at the problem and report back, along with photos.

p.s. don't know the guy from that area so can't find anything out for you unfortunately

Jim thks for your comments  - can the customer get a copy of the report or
is it for Next eyes only!

[L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner]

What would be the cost and who is liable and responsible
For having the rug taken away for an analytical test,and by
Whom ? It used to be WIRA.
A few years ago a carpet that went for testing under laboratory
Conditions by WIRA,there were 5 to 6 hours work at £60 per
Hour ! ( I think my figures are accurate but don`t hold a gun to
My head )


Lewis  Doubtfire

[Jim_77]

Exactly Lewis, hence why if there is a hint of manufacturing defect it's quicker, simpler and infinitely more sensible for the retailer to just throw it back to whence it came and replace it. The cost of doing so is written off as PR.

Mike, in this type of situation Next is the customer of ServiceMaster, therefore it is a matter between those two parties.  The information shared is confidential, unless Next choose to disclose it to any other parties.

However if you wanted to give the guy a ring and have a chat 'off the record' you might at least have some of your fears allayed, but as I said I don't know this particular franchisee (or may even have been a tech.)

[Linds Russell]

It may be worthwhile seeking out your nearest Woolsafe inspector. A friend of mine has just become one and I know that just turning up to take a look is not credible scientific judgement. I am pretty sure they would need to take samples for analysis as they have invested heavily in kits that can determine the presence of various compounds.

Even if you have to pay him or her £50 or more for the priviledge, it may be worth a try to have an independent expert prove your innocence.

Linds

[mike roberts]

Great why do i get the customer who is a complete 'Nightmare' 

I have had to chase her every step to find out what Next and SM have said...Will not give me details of SM agent, I have suggested SM clean remainder of rug I will pay for them to do so... if it cleans OK (which it wont!) I will replace it !!
  she has gone ape she wants a new rug. full stop it cost £200 new but its covered in urine marks + hole - tempted just to pay her to avoid this crap.. she was recommended to us but wont even tell me who recommended us.. eh

But stuff it ... over to Insurance i will recheck that they wont simply pay out, spoke to them the other day..they have said it is upto her to prove we were at fault..
 c how it goes!

[Neil Williams]

over to Insurance i will recheck that they wont simply pay out, spoke to them the other day..they have said it is upto her to prove we were at fault..
 

Good. If it's going down the insurance route then (personally) I would drag it for so long that she either gets bored or dies from old age.
I would tell her to get 3 independant assessments done, but only tell her you want the next assessment after the previous one was done and drag those out as long as possible. Then if that doesn't shake her off tell her you want it tested by the wool safe organisation.
Put it this way if it's going to be an insurance pay out you might as well make sure you get your monies worth.
By the time the results come back with urine damge etc she'll be lucky to be offered £25