[martin19842]

21:00 Today
BBC2
The Secret Life of an Office Cleaner
Documentary investigating the cleaning industry, one of the largest employers in Britain, worth 9 billion pounds a year. In London alone, there is an invisible army of a quarter of a million cleaners, with nearly all of them immigrants and many working illegally. They inhabit a secret world, ignored by the rest of the population and all too often, the result is abuse and initimidation

well here we go for another bashing

it must be something in the water at the moment, it'll be interesting to see if this is a balanced documentary, i'll suppose we will have to wait and see.

regards

martin

[blacksheep]

hi martain,just in from work, i would have liked to see the documentary,no video so how was it

[mxg]

It focussed on central London office blocks only. The sort of places where the cleaning team is between 20 & 30 people strong.

Not a particularly good advert for cleaning companies or some of their larger customers - you know the usual script, heavy handed security guards trying to stop filming on private property etc.

For the cleaning industry, there was Martin Vesey from the CSSA, a lady lecturer from Merton College, some managers from some of the bigger guys like OCS.

Then there were some actual cleaners including a guy who was part of a campaign to get better wages for cleaners in London.

There were allegations about employing illegal workers (who used forged/dodgy papers) to pass employers checks, supervisors claiming wages for ghost workers, supervisors overpaying illegal workers and then "claiming" back the cash for themselves.

There was also a guy from some pressure/action group that was leading the campaign for higher wages who didn't really have a good word to say about cleaning companies and senior management in particular. Although tgher may be some merit to his arguments he seemed a bit naive/idealist. I don't think enough empahsis was put on the pressure customers use to keep contract prices low.

All in all, not very appetising viewing but its not a world that I recognise from my albeit limited experience of the cleaning industry.

Mick

[martin19842]

hi there,

i used to cover North London and did so for about 6 years, and had colleagues that covered central london and canary wharf.

TUPE has got a lot to answer for in these larger sites, clients review cleaning annually and are constantly trying to drive price down or to reduce any increase in price to a minimum.

The big boys expect such large productivity rates from the cleaners that work quality is diminishing, and the margins for the supplier companies are being protected by the use of cost cutting methods, reducing number of cleaners on site, and pay levels.

i am happy that i got out of that particular market place,

however the programme was right in what it said, there are no english people cleaning in central london.  and i tell you the immigrant work force unfortunately puts some people to shame.

there was a chap on there that is working hours and hours each day, and works six days a week, and he isnt the only one, they are all doing it, they are holding down several jobs, and then sending the money out of the country.

who is the stupid one, in this game.  !!!

the cleaning industry is worth millions, billions each year, yes its not the most glam job, (sometimes) but there are cleaners out there earning MONEY.

overall it didnt help the industry,if anything it needs to send a wake up call to the clients, minimum wage levels will do either of two things, drive more immigrant workers to work for below minimum wage levels, or the cleints will wake up and realise they have to pay more for their cleaining.

regards

martin

[Fox]

I watched this last night.  The young guy doing filming from the workers right group (or whatever it was) was a true lefty!  He interpreted things said to suit him and his programme.  He said cleaners did not want to talk to him because they were scared and being intimidated but didn't say that they didn't want to talk to him because they just wanted to get on with their job and had no problems with the work.  He said the companies didn't want him filming inside the buildings because they had something to hide, he didn't say they didn't want him filming because of security and confidentiality.

Workers have got a right to decent conditions and reasonable pay but where does it stop?  Most cleaners are in effect classed as 'unskilled' (I personally hate the word) and get pay rates that match, as do labourers, shop workers, warehouse staff, pickers, packers etc etc.  Maybe we should bring in minimum wage for cleaners of £6.70 per hour and force the companies to pay us contractors more to cover the cost and in turn do the same for all the other 'unskilled' workers, after all I'm sure no one will mind a hike in the prices of everything we purchase from food items to electrical goods to cover the extra pay for staff.  Then of course we will all need a pay rise to pay for the extra we have to shell out in the price rises - swings and roundabouts.

I wonder whether the only english cleaner on the program gets top up benefits and claims family credit, I wonder if his wife works, I wonder why, if he hates the job so much, doesn't he go and get some shop or warehouse work instead?

There are alot of problems within the cleaning industry and I agree that too much cost cutting goes on, this programme did little in trying to educate the client that they will only get what they are willing to pay for and standards and wages will not rise until we cleaners/contractors are considered an essential part of everyones business.

All in all the cleaners interviewed did themselves and our industry no favours and in my opinion were a bunch of moaners!  At the end of the day if all the people on the dole were made to go out and at least earn some of their own money then the problem of having to employ immigrants would not exist.

Phewww - well that's my opinion!

[Just a cleaner.]

Fox,

Hear, hear.  You should go into politics.  That said everything.