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alanwilson

  • Posts: 1885
Re: WC customer contracts
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2009, 03:15:51 pm »
half of our commercial contracts don't have a ... errrr... contract AT ALL!!
I've never been to bed with an ugly bird but I've woken up with loads!

Re: WC customer contracts
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2009, 05:49:01 pm »
I suppose you have to ask what would a contract get you?, could you enforce it?

I have terms and conditions but I find that when you into a disagreement with the customer...you will rarely win...you in most cases have to roll with the punches..

Cheers
Dave.

It's not about the enforceability for me.  It's about focussing their minds to let them know that you run a business and that there are responsibilities on both sides.  There's less chance of being messed about then.  If they still want to mess about they can mess someone else about.

GWCS

Re: WC customer contracts
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2009, 06:29:25 pm »
I usually take on customers that say they are looking for someone regular and reliable, to which i reply, good cos thats the type of customer im after too.

If i get messed about (like told not today) without good reason especially not in advance, then i will put mark to their name, if they do it again, and i will drop them.

I need reliable customers just as much as they need a reliable cleaner. It works both ways..

Just like if a messed them about, i'd expect the boot.

But i dont set out T & C's per se, just give them a few guidelines about what the service entails, and what i require from them - payment on time, leaving gates unlocked if they dont want me climbing over etc.

simon knight

Re: WC customer contracts
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2009, 08:34:42 pm »
Roy,

I think your T&Cs are clear and to the point from YOUR trading perspective.  But two things bother me, and it's why I don't have T&Cs:

1). T&Cs cut both ways. You have 3 boxes to tick, 4, 8 and 12 weekly...but what happens if for whatever reason eg: sickness, weather, equipment failure, holidays etc you are unable to fulfill your contractural side of the commitment? Your T&Cs do not explain what will happen in that event.

2). Realistically, how enforcable are the T&Cs you're asking the customer to sign? Probably with a good contracts lawyer coupled with a court appearance and a judge sympathetic to poor window cleaners you'd probably win... and gain what exactly? £30, £30, £100....er!

If, for arguments sake Starbucks approached me and asked me to regularily clean all their SW London coffee houses it would entail me sacking 2/3 of my usual accounts and therefore my solicitor would be drawing up a contract to safeguard me should Starbucks reneiged. And I would have no hesitation in taking them to court! But a contract signed by 73 year old Mrs Smith from Church Road, Slough ??? Come on! You're not gonna sue her...so what's the point in T&Cs for residential?

If I asked any of my regulars or new customers here in SW London to sign a contract they'd laugh in my face!
I have used a terms and conditions contract for about 24yrs. If they would like a 4 wkly service, the would be required to give me 9 wks notice of termination of our service.

I explain that, this so I dont turn work away, then find that i did have a free spot.

And also require 3 days notice of cancel a clean. This right from the start lets them know they cant mess you around.

But to inforce it may be another thing. But I never have had to, as people know were they stand.

And if another window cleanner calls, they have to wait 2 months. ;D

Click below to see

Roy

Simon if you look at my above quote, I did say inforcing it would be another thing. But as Chris says, it lays out what you expect.

As regards the customer, they may say they only want it cleaned on a friday afternoon. And may add other things like frames wash and windows sills.

I see many post on the site saying, "Ive put off because of this and that" but I have used it for 24yrs and it works. I have never had to inforce it, but I have had customers ring me and say they are having the house painted next week, and notify me in advance. This saves time and monney.

Terms and conditions of booking my service, if they dont want me fine that is there choice.

Roy


Yes yes yes..me me me... ::)

All you've done in your reply is to underline what you expect from your customers...and expect them to sign a "legally" ;D binding contract ::)

As I say "contracts" cut both ways and you Sir haven't attempted to answer my point: What about if you can't fulfill your side..what happens then?

Re: WC customer contracts
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2009, 10:06:28 pm »
I have thought about contracts before. I tried them out on a few customers to see how they panned out.

IMO you have to decide what type of relationship you want with your customers. I read an interesting piece by Dan Ariely and will post when I dig out the book.

If you want a social contract (that is to say an unwritten one) you are prob more likely to be able to retain and charge well for the work you do, they in turn will feel a  social connection with you, their loyalty will be greater than those on a formal contract. They adopt you as their window cleaner.

Those on a formal contract have a formal relationship with you and this can work well as you are in a position to act in a more professional manner. This may mean charging professional rates and keeping customers for the term of the contract. However, the customer is more likely to deal with you as any other of their contracts like utility bills. As soon as they feel they are not getting their pound of flesh they will "price shop" and try and get a better deal.

Having in a contract a condition that handcuffs them to you can serve as an irritation and even further alienate them if they are starting to drift.

Having tried both I prefer the first, my attrition rate is virtually nil. When I did try the formal contract I noticed I lost some of the congeniality that existed before.

Of course it is quite possible to mix the two, however I think that this has to be done from day one and not added at any time later. If it is introduced as "just paper-work" and "tut-hum, I hate it but it keeps the books straight" then move on to a more social contract you may get the best of both worlds. They can forget the contract and move on to be very loyal. The contract is an anchor, they know it is there, it was the starting point.

Personally the only contract I have with customers now is a guarantee that if they hare not happy with the service they do not need to pay. It works well, all the pressure is off the customer. Of course because I use the social contract no-one refuses to pay. Would you refuse to give a mate the £20 you owe them? If anything as I now have this on my invoices I receive payment a bit quicker.

Sorry if I have hijacked this thread I will start a new one with this post.

Stuart

Re: WC customer contracts
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2009, 10:08:18 pm »
I've reposted a new thread as promised.

windowswashed

  • Posts: 2539
Re: WC customer contracts
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2009, 05:35:32 pm »
they pay you you dont pay them its up to them if they want there windows cleaned not you it will NOT WORK. YOU ARE A W/C not afootball manager.

What's so special about a football manager?

Footballers are glorified entertainers kicking a ball around......big deal, over rated and over paid

Window Washers

  • Posts: 9036
Re: WC customer contracts
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2009, 06:57:01 pm »
I have thought about contracts before. I tried them out on a few customers to see how they panned out.

IMO you have to decide what type of relationship you want with your customers. I read an interesting piece by Dan Ariely and will post when I dig out the book.

If you want a social contract (that is to say an unwritten one) you are prob more likely to be able to retain and charge well for the work you do, they in turn will feel a  social connection with you, their loyalty will be greater than those on a formal contract. They adopt you as their window cleaner.

Those on a formal contract have a formal relationship with you and this can work well as you are in a position to act in a more professional manner. This may mean charging professional rates and keeping customers for the term of the contract. However, the customer is more likely to deal with you as any other of their contracts like utility bills. As soon as they feel they are not getting their pound of flesh they will "price shop" and try and get a better deal.

Having in a contract a condition that handcuffs them to you can serve as an irritation and even further alienate them if they are starting to drift.

Having tried both I prefer the first, my attrition rate is virtually nil. When I did try the formal contract I noticed I lost some of the congeniality that existed before.

Of course it is quite possible to mix the two, however I think that this has to be done from day one and not added at any time later. If it is introduced as "just paper-work" and "tut-hum, I hate it but it keeps the books straight" then move on to a more social contract you may get the best of both worlds. They can forget the contract and move on to be very loyal. The contract is an anchor, they know it is there, it was the starting point.

Personally the only contract I have with customers now is a guarantee that if they hare not happy with the service they do not need to pay. It works well, all the pressure is off the customer. Of course because I use the social contract no-one refuses to pay. Would you refuse to give a mate the £20 you owe them? If anything as I now have this on my invoices I receive payment a bit quicker.

Sorry if I have hijacked this thread I will start a new one with this post.

Stuart
Stuart,

Without meaning to sound harsh in anyway it sounds like you need to read english marketing books.

A social contract gives all the power to the customer, they can and will mess you about more so on first cleans that say they want regular then cancel on the first clean used to happen to me a bit over the years.

I use a contract for min of three cleans, I do not want to be messed about I say this to the customer at the start.
Being pals with customers is not alwasy the best way, I did this for to long, don't get me wrong I am freindly but thats it, I am there to do a job and get paid regular (harsh but true).

Listening to customers and there needs is a must but at the same time you have to be firm with people or they will run you around and around in circles.

This is what I have found over the years, my contract covers my needs and safe guards theirs, Professional yes, and they seem to like it (strange I know) only people that do not like it are the people that are looking for a one-off clean and don't want to pay the price for it. Sorting the wheat from the chaff is imo key to growing as a business girl thingy foot round people holds you back.


Ian
If your not willing to learn, No one can help you, If you are determined to learn, No one can stop you ;)

simon knight

Re: WC customer contracts
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2009, 08:01:02 pm »
 as a business girl thingy foot round people holds you back.


Ian
Quote

A What?

Re: WC customer contracts
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2009, 08:34:49 pm »
I have thought about contracts before. I tried them out on a few customers to see how they panned out.

IMO you have to decide what type of relationship you want with your customers. I read an interesting piece by Dan Ariely and will post when I dig out the book.

If you want a social contract (that is to say an unwritten one) you are prob more likely to be able to retain and charge well for the work you do, they in turn will feel a  social connection with you, their loyalty will be greater than those on a formal contract. They adopt you as their window cleaner.

Those on a formal contract have a formal relationship with you and this can work well as you are in a position to act in a more professional manner. This may mean charging professional rates and keeping customers for the term of the contract. However, the customer is more likely to deal with you as any other of their contracts like utility bills. As soon as they feel they are not getting their pound of flesh they will "price shop" and try and get a better deal.

Having in a contract a condition that handcuffs them to you can serve as an irritation and even further alienate them if they are starting to drift.

Having tried both I prefer the first, my attrition rate is virtually nil. When I did try the formal contract I noticed I lost some of the congeniality that existed before.

Of course it is quite possible to mix the two, however I think that this has to be done from day one and not added at any time later. If it is introduced as "just paper-work" and "tut-hum, I hate it but it keeps the books straight" then move on to a more social contract you may get the best of both worlds. They can forget the contract and move on to be very loyal. The contract is an anchor, they know it is there, it was the starting point.

Personally the only contract I have with customers now is a guarantee that if they hare not happy with the service they do not need to pay. It works well, all the pressure is off the customer. Of course because I use the social contract no-one refuses to pay. Would you refuse to give a mate the £20 you owe them? If anything as I now have this on my invoices I receive payment a bit quicker.

Sorry if I have hijacked this thread I will start a new one with this post.

Stuart
Stuart,

Without meaning to sound harsh in anyway it sounds like you need to read english marketing books.

A social contract gives all the power to the customer, they can and will mess you about more so on first cleans that say they want regular then cancel on the first clean used to happen to me a bit over the years.

I use a contract for min of three cleans, I do not want to be messed about I say this to the customer at the start.
Being pals with customers is not alwasy the best way, I did this for to long, don't get me wrong I am freindly but thats it, I am there to do a job and get paid regular (harsh but true).

Listening to customers and there needs is a must but at the same time you have to be firm with people or they will run you around and around in circles.

This is what I have found over the years, my contract covers my needs and safe guards theirs, Professional yes, and they seem to like it (strange I know) only people that do not like it are the people that are looking for a one-off clean and don't want to pay the price for it. Sorting the wheat from the chaff is imo key to growing as a business girl thingy foot round people holds you back.


Ian

I understand what you are saying, but it works well for me. Each new customer is charged at a one off rate anyway so if they only want one clean thats fine.

Window Washers

  • Posts: 9036
Re: WC customer contracts
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2009, 10:29:05 pm »
as a business girl thingy foot round people holds you back.


Ian
Quote

A What?
silly mod on thwe speeling. mean to say pu ssy footing around:


And Chris Fair play to you fella. If it work for you that is what matters.  ;)
If your not willing to learn, No one can help you, If you are determined to learn, No one can stop you ;)

Johnny B

  • Posts: 2385
Re: WC customer contracts
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2009, 02:17:17 pm »
Interesting thread. I have never thought about having a formal contract with my customers. Everything is agreed verbally, and if they need to contact me over any issues they are encouraged to phone me.

I know most of my customers well enough to know that if there are any changes to our verbal agreement, (ie not today, thanks) then there is usually a genuine reason, and I have no problem with this. I can usually tell if a customer is looking to cancel me by observing any changes in their manner or body language, in which case I ask them if they would like me to leave their windows in future. This puts the ball firmly in their court without making them feel obligated towards me.

John
Being diplomatic is being able to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.

tonyoliver

  • Posts: 591
Re: WC customer contracts
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2009, 02:32:16 pm »


 But a contract signed by 73 year old Mrs Smith from Church Road, Slough ??? Come on! You're not gonna sue her...
[/qumy name is mrs smith i am 73 and live in church road slough why am i being sued................................... like sir alan says your fired........................... see you in court my son is sir richard pelham smith qc kr vc and bar black belt in origami and ote]so sit on that young man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o 8) :-* :P