[alanwilson]

what is the legal position of carrying tanks of gas around in our vans?

I may fit both our vans out but I'm worried about legal implications should something ever happen.

or has no one looked into this?

[David Slater]

Implications in what way? Do you have a particular issue you're thinking about?

Every motorhome and caravan you see will almost certainly be carrying at least one gas bottle... not to mention every plumbers van you see (they need gas bottles for their work).

Obvious things like making sure it is securely positioned and you are displaying a warning triangle on the outside of your vehicle (a little red 'flammable gas' sticker - available from Ebay for £2).
A carbon monoxide sensor inside the vehicle cab (B&Q about £3) is a bit 'belt and braces' but its handy for your H&S.

My main concern was the potential for back injuries - lifting bottle in and out for re-filling... so I chose the Gaslow permanent gas bottle which you re-fill at the petrol station.....and their gas is about 50% cheaper than bottled gas         

[alanwilson]

so there aren't any legal implications?  obviously insurance co etc need to be informed.

plumbers gas bottles aren't installed into their vehicle whereas with with hot wfp essentially the gas bottle becomes a modification to the vehicle, thats what is worrying me.

[David Slater]

Alan,

If anything, a plumbers gas bottle would potentially be more hazardous than yours - they need to lift their gas bottle in and out of the vehicle for every job which could create a potential hazard due to correct and secure positioning of the bottle after use....there is more chance of a plumber just 'throwing in' his gas bottle at the end of the day.

Your gas bottle will remain securely positioned in the vehicle (in accordance with manufacturers installations) throughout its life - it does not need to be lifted in and out of the vehicle at each job site. If using 'bottle gas' you will only lift out and replace the empty bottle for the full bottle back into the secure position in your vehicle. if using Gaslow, you will NEVER touch the gas bottle for any reason. Gaslow is EC approved for mobile vehicles.

I think the question your are asking is - can I have a bottle of gas 'plopped' in the back of my van for hot water....

Obviously, the answer is NO. You have not adequately assesed all of the potential hazards/risks.

Your insurance company will no doubt assess the likelyhood of accident/hazard/risk based on your installation /equipment used

The mobile (and fitted Gaslow) gas bottles themselves are rated for 'mobile use' (within vehicles) so are unlikely to rupture in an accident.

A gas bottle itself (if securely fitted within the vehicle and filled in line with manufacturers instructions) should not cause any extra likelyhood of causing an accident/explosion.

You may be getting confused with the extra requirements for carrying HAZCHEM....thats a whole new subject! and reserved for the likes of bottle gas distributors/delivery vehicles and petrol tankers 

Youe need to fit a 'flammable gas' sticker in case your vehicle is involved in an accident/fire to make the fire (emergency services) aware you are carrying a gas bottle.

The gas bottle has more chance of injuring/killing you due to its incorrect placement (and flying through the air and hitting you!) than it ever does through explosion/fire hazard.

Conclusion - make sure its well fastend down with approved straps/anchors.

[Mr Cleannclear]

David

Did you have to buy the gaslow  gas bottle , someone posted they rented there bottle for about £1.80 per month

[David Slater]

Yep, I bought my bottle and all fittings from a company in Manchester - Total cost £130

All I need to do is pull up to a petrol station and fill up with gas (at their considerably cheaper rates!)..I even have that funky little petrol cap type affair for the gas. I dont have to go anywhere near the bottle to fill up!

They even supplied me with the Italian and European converters for the gas filling kit.....but I dont think I'll need them!

I own the equipment (and gas bottle) outright.

Have a look at the Gaslow website and if you cant find a good deal let me know and I'll PM you the details of the site where I got mine.

CIU seem to have 'issues' over people posting links  ...otherwise I'd post it up.

[Mr Cleannclear]

What size bottle  did you get , or is there just 1 size

[David Slater]

I got the 11Kg bottle which holds 22.5 litres.

They do a 6Kg and 11Kg bottle.

[gary999]

if you want get a proper gist on the regs on how you stand legally
and how they should be stored pop into your local fire station these guys
generally now all regs when it comes to fire hazards

if things are quiet they are normally quite willing to help lets face it
it could save them a job in the future

[David Slater]

Things have changed over the last few years with the Fire Service.

There is no longer a requirement for the Fire Service to issue Fire Certs (so might be unwilling to put their necks on the block for advice!)

Have a word with your local college and get yourself on the NEBOSH (ngc) course. This will explain all your legal duties for H&S (including fire regs).

Its down to YOU to assess your risks and hazards and properly control them.

[David Slater]

if you want get a proper gist on the regs on how you stand legally
and how they should be stored pop into your local fire station these guys
generally now all regs when it comes to fire hazards

if things are quiet they are normally quite willing to help lets face it
it could save them a job in the future

EDIT -

Correct place to look for information on gas bottles and your legal duties is - DSEAR
www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/dsear.htm#quick

[Clive McDonald]

I'm interested in this dave and what you've had to say is new to me so well done.I was the first on this forum to go this route( have I mentioned this before )
Anyway 19kg costs £28, smaller bottles are more pro rata, so what does yours cost to fill?
And, I thought(wrongly obviously) that there was a difference between vapour and liquid delivery.(liquid for an engine, vapour for our heaters)

[gary999]

if you want get a proper gist on the regs on how you stand legally
and how they should be stored pop into your local fire station these guys
generally now all regs when it comes to fire hazards

if things are quiet they are normally quite willing to help lets face it
it could save them a job in the future

EDIT -

Correct place to look for information on gas bottles and your legal duties is - DSEAR
www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/dsear.htm#quick

local fire station gave me exact same info...but cheers anyway :

[tomy jackson]

iv rung my insurance and thay wont it certifed by gas man and im with a plan

[David Slater]

I'm interested in this dave and what you've had to say is new to me so well done.I was the first on this forum to go this route( have I mentioned this before )
Anyway 19kg costs £28, smaller bottles are more pro rata, so what does yours cost to fill?
And, I thought(wrongly obviously) that there was a difference between vapour and liquid delivery.(liquid for an engine, vapour for our heaters)

Its something to do with the Butane and Propane content in the LPG.... not quite sure of the finer points as my dad sorted it for me (he already has a Gaslow unit in his motorhome so understood exactly what boiler/gas set up I would require).

If you're using a caravan/motorhome style boiler they should run on either bottle or LPG gas (these Gaslow units were specifically designed for just this purpose). Your boiler should have come with information on types of fuel it can use.

LPG is around 54pence a litre from a petrol station - www.whatgas.com

Information from the gaslow site and directives about refilling gas bottles at petrol stations -   www.gaslow.co.uk/pdf/INSTRUC_inside_UK.pdf

If you look at the pictures you will see it is for running the onboard gas supply (the motorhome boiler and fridge and that sort of stuff) and not for running the engine..... You could always give them a ring have a chat with them about your set up to see if its compatible.

Tommy,

This is pretty standard. You are using a gas appliance so its not surprising they want it certified by a corgi engineer (just like your gas boiler at home).

[rz]

the law has changed recently which now states you need an adr licence(hazardous goods) if carrying gas, but i,m pretty sure its over 300kgs of gas, ie 7x 47 kgs cylinders,so i,m sure everybody on here will be well within the law.