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JSMC

  • Posts: 3511
fully qualified to work as H&S inspector now
« on: August 18, 2008, 05:14:19 pm »
passed all my exams and received a credit pass for my course..


will be using this as a selling point on commercial work.

JSMC

  • Posts: 3511
Re: fully qualified to work as H&S inspector now
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2008, 06:08:32 pm »
hold my NEBOSH and also my IOSH managing safely certificates now.
NEBOSH one is good if i want to go into H&S work. This wa sm yplan last year whilst still working for my  previous work.

still a good thing to have but ye need to keep yer eye on the ball with H&S as  twice per yea ritems can change.

Re: fully qualified to work as H&S inspector now
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2008, 06:37:44 pm »
So, you're the man to ask............clarify in terms and words understandable to mere mortals how window cleaners stand regarding working and using ladders; most specifically the legality of it and who is liable supposing there is an accident involving an individual who has fallen from a ladder whilst working off it specifically to clean windows.

Matt

Re: fully qualified to work as H&S inspector now
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2008, 07:04:43 pm »
passed all my exams and received a credit pass for my course..


will be using this as a selling point on commercial work.

Good on you fella,
this will be a great asset to you  ;)

Ian

matt

Re: fully qualified to work as H&S inspector now
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2008, 07:06:53 pm »
i did the course years ago, it was to go with my building degree, the H&S exec were on a recruitment drive at the time, in the end i didnt fancy a office job

David Slater

Re: fully qualified to work as H&S inspector now
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2008, 09:14:37 pm »
passed all my exams and received a credit pass for my course..


will be using this as a selling point on commercial work.


Well done fella!

I start my NEBOSH course with MANCAT in two weeks.

I heard its a bit of a slog with two 2 hour tests at the end...but I reckon it'll be worth it for the reasons you've mentioned.


NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: fully qualified to work as H&S inspector now
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2008, 10:00:36 pm »
So, you're the man to ask............clarify in terms and words understandable to mere mortals how window cleaners stand regarding working and using ladders; most specifically the legality of it and who is liable supposing there is an accident involving an individual who has fallen from a ladder whilst working off it specifically to clean windows.

Matt
Is he going to answer that then?

Re: fully qualified to work as H&S inspector now
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2008, 10:46:19 pm »
They never listen to me mate, thought if it came from a qualified bod then they might feel obliged to at least bend an ear  ;)

JSMC

  • Posts: 3511
Re: fully qualified to work as H&S inspector now
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008, 12:56:55 pm »
So, you're the man to ask............clarify in terms and words understandable to mere mortals how window cleaners stand regarding working and using ladders; most specifically the legality of it and who is liable supposing there is an accident involving an individual who has fallen from a ladder whilst working off it specifically to clean windows.

Matt

being in possesion of these certificats doesn't make you an expert in all fields of H&S the way some people in works believe.

Ladders are mainly used for access or temporary work stations.  if using ladder as temp work station you would need to risk assess it and take into account your findings.

also said ladder must be secured. etc  However if there is a safer way of doing job and is reasonably practicable to do so then do it this way.

If you fall off a ladder whilst working I'd like to know full detials of what happened and precautions taken to avoid it happening in first place.

H&S scares people but basically if you take time to red it and interpret it it is quite easy to follow.

David Slater

Re: fully qualified to work as H&S inspector now
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2008, 05:53:54 pm »
So, you're the man to ask............clarify in terms and words understandable to mere mortals how window cleaners stand regarding working and using ladders; most specifically the legality of it and who is liable supposing there is an accident involving an individual who has fallen from a ladder whilst working off it specifically to clean windows.

Matt

My first 8 hours of it today  ??? its a bit more involved than I originally imagined!

I mentioned this question and here was the answer -

In Brief: It Depends


In full: if it was an employee who fell while working for you

You (the boss) could be prosecuted if it could be shown that you had failed to
1. Plan
2. Organise
3. Control
4. Monitor
5. Review (at regular intervals) the task.

If you failed to provide adequate and suitable training for the task.
If you failed to assess the risk (or did not assess the risk correctly)
If you failed to provide adequate supervision for the task.

You may have provided suitable training but is it recorded and documented? The courts will want to see proof that you have an effective Health and Safety policy. If you cannot show this, then you could be found guilty even though you were not at fault.
For anybody with more than 5 employees this is mandatory....but the regulations do not actually state a 'number' of employees so it is considered best practice to have a robust H&S policy in place. Having less than 5 employees will not release you from the burden of proof in a court of law.

The burden of proof is on YOU as an employer NOT on the HSE......so effectively, you're guilty until you can prove your innocence!!

Are ladders illegal: NO

But did you consider other practicable alternatives before their use?

If the answer is yes...but you decided against WFP or a cherry picker, then this could indeed leave you open to a claim because you did not use the "safer system of work" available.

If the answer is no....then your Method Statement and Risk Assessment could be deemed to be lacking because you were unaware of safer methods of work...and again, its your fault.

From what I can gather, its a great big 'finger pointing' exercise. The government dont want to take responsibility, the employer doesnt want to take responsibility, the employee doesnt want to take responsibility.

...all you can do is cover yourself by having everything documented, written down and signed so that should it ever come to court you can cover your own backside with lots of signatures on bits of paper!


A very very complicated (and half baked!) set of laws, rules, regulations if you ask me.

 







Re: fully qualified to work as H&S inspector now
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2008, 06:24:43 pm »
Thankyou David. Appreciated.

Matt

steve a

  • Posts: 466
Re: fully qualified to work as H&S inspector now
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2008, 09:36:11 pm »
David.

Very helpful, clear, concise bit of information that everyone who is thinking of employing should take on board.

Steve a

David Slater

Re: fully qualified to work as H&S inspector now
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2008, 09:55:07 pm »
David.

Very helpful, clear, concise bit of information that everyone who is thinking of employing should take on board.

Steve a

A very strange analogy...but very close to what you need to consider -

I've just finished watching a fascinating 2 part programme on UKTV History channel called "Killing Hitler"

If you want to see "Method Statements" and "Risk Assessments" in action, I strongly suggest you watch it.

It covers virtually all the points you need to consider. It also highlights the need to liase with all parties and ensure there is a clear chain of command.

It is a perfect case of a well written and executed Method Statement and Risk Assessment.



Probably a bit surprising....they were performing what we would call a "Risk Assessment" as far back as 1944


Its no doubt on the web somewhere...try and watch it if you can.