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How safe are scrapers?
« on: May 02, 2008, 09:17:23 pm »
I know to use a scraper by pushing and lifting rather than pull/push and only ever on wet glass.

Questions:

* Is that glass wet with water only or should I add a drop of detergent as a surfactant/lubricant?

* Are there any other other special precautions?

* Is there ANY risk of scratching, and if so, under what conditions?

I ask because I often see paint spatter on glass and I'd like to be able to take it off. Would you ask for a bob or two extra for removing paint spots?

Londoner

Re: How safe are scrapers?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2008, 08:14:49 am »
Always using them wet is the best tip. It doesn't have to have any detergent in the water.
 I generally remove paint spots as part of the job rather than as a chargable extra.


Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2997
Re: How safe are scrapers?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2008, 09:26:55 am »
It is very definitely possible to scratch glass!!!!!!!!!

But this is the new toughened glass, you have to be so careful now when you use a scraper.

Unless you know the pane is ok, before you attempt to use it properly, just gently run the blade over the glass, and I mean with a REAL light touch!

If the glass is not safe to scrape you will hear the sound of loads of imperfections, you can't see them or feel them with your fingertips.
If you come across this on glass (always the toughened glass) DO NOT USE A SCRAPER OF ANY KIND!
It is a manufacturing defect, use a scraper on this and you will remove many hundreds of minuscule glass beads, like tiny pimples, they get caught by the blade and will leave the most appalling scratches.

Other glass is fine, in fact the majority of old glass is totally ok to use a scraper on, but if it has a kite mark on it then beware!! :o

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

brett walker

  • Posts: 1943
Re: How safe are scrapers?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2008, 10:08:06 am »
ive known a few window cleaners scratch glass with scrapers just keep giving it a really good soak and keep going back to it, be very careful

i used to know one old guy who used to use a coin out of his pocket   :o  :o

Brett

Pj

Re: How safe are scrapers?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2008, 10:15:37 am »
Yes, always keep the glass wet and soapy, very gently glide the blade forward.

One more important thing - Always use a fresh clean blade, they rust very quickly.

karlosdaze

  • Posts: 174
Re: How safe are scrapers?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2008, 07:14:33 pm »
You may also want to read:
(Gap left between the t's)
ht tp://robinson-solutions.blogspot.com/2008/03/fabricating-debris-on-glass.html
ht tp://robinson-solutions.blogspot.com/2008/04/sticker-for-window-cleaners-proposed.html

All highlighted words are clickable! GET THAT WAIVER!


Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2997
Re: How safe are scrapers?
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2008, 09:51:27 am »
There ya go then...watch out for that tempered glass!

I got caught out big time, I nibbed off some paint speckles on some glass, didn't think anything of it and also didn't know about the dangers of 'fabricating debris'.
Customer complains....

I check over the work...scratches were appalling....

It's a long story, but to cut it short I tried to replicate what I had done to see if it was me...I couldn't make a mark on the glass, not with the Unger razer scraper or a rusty old stanley scraper, had the customer standing behind me as I 'Proved' it couldn't have been me that scratched the glass, not with the equipment that I used...
Obviously I had thoroughly knifed off all of the debris, ergo it wasn't there to scratch the glass when I tried to replicate it.
I totally believed it at the time too, it was only months later when I viewed a link on the forum somewhere that I read about this problem with tempered glass, and I've since come across it several times.

If you see paint, or silicone or cellotape on the glass and you are about to whip out your trusty scraper then check very carefully first.
The blade will find the debris if it is there, and it is also the only way to check for it too.
As in the States, this is going to become an increasingly big problem for us UK window cleaners due to the fact that just about all double glazed units are now made with tempered glass.

I've started telling my commercial customers (shops and so on) not to use cellotape to stick posters and so on in the windows just in case they have tempered glass; have already had to demonstrate to a pharmacy I do that I could not remove some old adhesive from cellotape because the glass was tempered and had fabrication debris on it.

This isn't a subject that has been discussed much on the forum, most of us have used scrapers for years and years and never had a problem, so I would say that the majority of UK window cleaners, even those who have been in the trade for decades are not remotely aware of this growing problem.

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Dean Aspects

  • Posts: 1786
Re: How safe are scrapers?
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2008, 09:54:51 am »
How do you tell if the glass is tempered?

Dean

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2997
Re: How safe are scrapers?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2008, 10:07:48 am »
There is usually a 'kite' mark in one corner of the glass, and the tempered glass will almost certainly be a double glazed unit.

Just run the scraper blade with a feather light touch over the glass and you will know instantly if it has 'fabrication debris' on it.

Just the very lightest of touches with the scraper though, in fact just draw back with the scraper as against pushing the blade and you should still be able to here these pimples of glass on the edge of the blade.

I was so, so lucky to get away with it, remember, most public liability insurances do not cover you for the actual windows you are working on, so screw it up and you can out of pocket to quite a degree!

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Re: How safe are scrapers?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2008, 10:52:00 am »
To summarise - and check if I've got it right ...

* scrapers are quite safe on non-tempered glass, but use only on wet glass and in one direction only

* beware of tempered glass (usually in double glazed units) - look out for the kite mark.

Is that right?



PS. kite mark doesn't mean bird of prey poo, does it????

alanwilson

  • Posts: 1885
Re: How safe are scrapers?
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2008, 02:01:06 pm »
why don't they make scraper blades out of brass so it can't scratch the glass.
I've never been to bed with an ugly bird but I've woken up with loads!

mr D

  • Posts: 913
Re: How safe are scrapers?
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2008, 07:13:40 pm »
top tip only use STANLEY blade scrapers. those razor blade w/c ones with the recratable blade are too thin and lose there edge easy leaving it jagged. this causes scratches. get a stanley scraper and loads of new blades. chane as soon as you think you need to. do not scrimp and scrape on the amount of blades you use. please excuse the pun