[DASERVICES]

Has anyone had any dealings with the press about window cleaning etc.. would appreciate any helpful pointers.

The SLWCN have been contacted by the press and will be attending a meeting we will be having with one of the Councils on licensing. After the meeting they are requesting a press interview, bit weary as sometimes they can distort the facts.

This will put the SLWCN in the spotlight and will hopefully give us good publicity which will benefit all licensed window cleaners if the correct message is printed.

This is the start of a long campaign to provide better benefits for licensed window cleaners an to get our trade in the spotlight.

Any Postive comments would be helpfull.

Thanks

Doug

[Village Gleam]

Write down all of the positive points that you want to get across, and then express them in the most concise way possible.
Think about questions they are likely to ask you. For example;
What do you say to critics of this scheme who say it's just more unessacery bureacrocy?
How can householders check if someones registered, and what reassurance does this give them?

Promote a professional responsible image and don't let them take a photo of you in the reliant robin van with the magnetic detachable signs.

[DASERVICES]

Promote a professional responsible image and don't let them take a photo of you in the reliant robin van with the magnetic detachable signs.

I'm going to have a magnetic sign on my duffle coat

No seriously we will be dressed as professionals, suit, name badge, presentation done with Powerpoint. We are not going in shouting and demanding, but selling us window cleaners to the Council. They will in turn hopefully work with us to benefit our trade.

Problem with the Press they can start saying negative things about the Council and Police which we do not want as this will put their backs up. We want to show that we are a professional organisation that wants to work with all parties.

[windowwashers]

Write down all of the positive points that you want to get across, and then express them in the most concise way possible.
Think about questions they are likely to ask you. For example;
What do you say to critics of this scheme who say it's just more unessacery bureacrocy?
How can householders check if someones registered, and what reassurance does this give them?

Promote a professional responsible image and don't let them take a photo of you in the reliant robin van with the magnetic detachable signs.

adding to that, is make sure your main point you want put across is said many times over when you speak to them when you think you are going ott say it again (sort of brain washing I guess), I did this when I had to use the press last year. Not for window cleaning though was a family issue that needed addressing and have to say what they wrote was very sad to read but got the result I wanted for my little neice.


Ian

[Village Gleam]

Yes repeatition is good.
Try and get a couple of anecdotes up your sleeve.
"We don't want a repeat of what happened in Kilmarnock, where an old lady of eighty fell victim........"
"This is not just about protecting the vulnerable househoulders, it's about giving the public confidence that any registered window cleaner they use is legit, pays taxes, and has been police checked."

If it's a female reporter pinch her bottom. They like this.

[Village Gleam]

If you're really that bothered say to the reporter.
"I hope I'm getting this message across properly because this is something I feel passionate about.Any of your readers that may feel wary about window cleaners can be reassured that we are doing everything possible to promote and carry on our industry in a responsible way."

[Village Gleam]

Just remembered my little anecdote. I was secretary when something big was happening, the local council leader spoke to me earlier in the day and I put the argument to him in a way that I thought he could understand,and later I had to email a comment supposedly from our chairman to go into a release from the council press office. I presume the paper printed it verbatim, but it turned out that all of the quoted commments and appposing arguments were mine. (Basically the leader nicked what I had said as his own sound bite).

[Village Gleam]

Yes, now that I think More about it DA your problem is going to be being included in the story at all.Very often the council press office writes something like this and provides it to the local paper who will print possibly all of it, or pull it about to make minor changes-or angles-.

The brief for the press office will be to make the council and the council leader look good. Council announce new licenseing scheme for window Cleaners with quotes from the leader and senior trading standards officer. They may ask you to contribute a comment to this already written piece, probably three lines max, and towards the end when everyone has lost interest.

So your job is a bit like Miss Piggy- make sure you are the star of the show-.At very least ask if the press office is doing a release, you'd like to see it before it goes out and also would like to be included in it.

[DASERVICES]

Before any Council meeting they have to release as per law in Scotland ( does not include England ) what is on the agenda. The SLWCN is on the agenda which also our report has been published for anyone to view. So the press have agenda posted to them to see what is going to be discussed.

Anyone can request the agenda however it is not on the internet, some councils do this. There is a new law in Scotland which is the freedom of information which all councils have to disclose on line by a certain year. So if anoyone wants to know about a counciller or window cleaner the Council by law have to provide this information.

There is going to be a press release in tomorrows paper, my worry is the hard work we have done could be ruined if they publish for example " window cleaners at war ". This we are not, we are doing everything by the book. The press which I have now been told have spoken to licensed and unlicensed window cleaners which is good as you have two views on licensing. The SLWCN have looked at unlicensing but the law covers all Civic trades which window cleaners are under this law. To remove this law would require for example in England for it to go through the House Of Lords. That is a very big task, something the SLWCN, AWPC, FED would find it hard to achieve.

So the only option is to get the Councils to do their job, this is what we are trying to achieve and I think we will achieve it. The papers will be on our side but as stated we do not want to rock the boat but to have a good working relationship with all parties as our goal is to have the best recognised trade in industry.

Now that is one hard task and if we succeed it will be a job well done, hence we need all the support as we are trying to bring this industry to a level which is one of the best.

If we do that then vote us as next Prime Minister 

[stevekennedy]

Focus on how licensing benefits the public and local business.

It provides them with a police check and insurance verification. Vital to safeguard the public in this litigious society.

The council could be held responsible if someone gets affected by unlicensed window cleaners unless they can show that they are fulfilling their duty of care in making sure the scheme works.

The public could be put at risk by uninsured window cleaners.

Also, demonstrate that supporting the SLWCN would be money well spent for the council.

The SLWCN is useful to the council, the police and the public as it improves public awareness for the licensing scheme. It also provides a reference point for those who are looking for a window cleaner.

[DASERVICES]

This is the first of many articles, I think the editor has done a good job here and has heard from both sides of the fence :-

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1931412007

Dirty work as window cleaners break law
ALAN RODEN
 CITY COUNCIL REPORTER (aroden@edinburghnews.com)
IT is a little-known fact that a licence is required to clean windows - even, it seems, among window cleaners themselves.

A new study has revealed that that just one in five of the Capital's estimated 500 window cleaners comply with the rules.

The city council was today urged to tighten the system, with checks only rarely being carried out and some workers saying they have never been asked to produce their documents.

Under the Civic Government (Scotland) Act, every window cleaner in Scotland is required by law to have a licence. The system is designed to protect residents against crime, particularly housebreaking, as cleaners know when homeowners are out.

During the application process, window cleaners are required to undergo police checks on their suitability for the job, as well as meet health and safety requirements, such as being insured against personal accidents or damage to property.

The Scottish Licensed Window Cleaners Network (SLWCN) believes there are at least 550 cleaners in Edinburgh, but council figures show only 100 are licensed.

A minority of the cleaners are thought to be working while simultaneously claiming benefits, or carrying out jobs without declaring earnings, while others simply ignore the law.

Some traders today said the licensing system should be scrapped, as other trades - such as decorators - do not need to pay for a permit.

But the SLWCN wants the council and police to crackdown on those operating without a licence, possibly by hiring an enforcement officer.

Committee member and window cleaner Doug Atkinson, who will speak to Edinburgh councillors later this week, said: "Councils are relying on people's goodwill.

"Even though it is a crime to operate without a licence, and culprits face a fine, there are a huge number of cleaners who don't have one.

"But there is little public knowledge about the licences. Window cleaners have regular and direct access to people's properties."

Mr Atkinson's group aims to have more than 1000 members by next year, and plans to publish the details of licensed cleaners on its website. The group today also encouraged residents and businesses to demand licence details before handing over cash.

But Mark Bruce, a window cleaner with Craiglockhart-based firm Top Marks, said the system is a "waste of time", and he no longer pays for the £41 annual licence fee. "My licence expired three or four years ago and it hasn't made any difference," he said. "There was never any follow-up."

Peter Leckie, from Musselburgh-based Edinburgh Window Cleaners, does have a licence - but agreed it was "pointless".

He said: "It's an outdated system. There are thousands of people who have access to homes - such as decorators - why should window cleaners have to pay? It seems a bit unfair.

"I've never once been asked for my licence and I've been doing this job for seven or eight years."

A police spokesman said: "When it is brought to our attention that a window cleaner is operating without a licence, we will take the appropriate action."

The issue will be discussed at a regulatory committee on Friday.

Convener Councillor Colin Keir said: "We welcome the opportunity to hear from the Window Cleaners Network and we will carefully consider the issues that they want to highlight."

Rules are clear
WINDOW cleaners are required by law to submit an application to the city council for a licence.

The requirement falls under the 1982 Civic Government (Scotland) Act, and is similar to a range of other professions which also need to be licensed by the council.

Applications, which cost £41 for a year - due to rise to £44 from next year - are available by filling out a form on the council's website.

Prospective window cleaners are required to provide contact details and date of birth, and the area of Edinburgh they intend to operate in.

They also need to declare that safety precautions are in place. Finally, the applicant is required to supply details of any conviction in any court in the UK.

[stevekennedy]

£41  is a paltry sum. These guys should cough up and pay for all the unlicensed years backdated 

We need more public awareness. Such as a small notice printed on the council tax/business rates bill or a leaflet enclosed within same.

We also need to make it an offense to EMPLOY such a window cleaner. I believe that this is the case in France. Each window cleaner needs to provide a reciept for the job which has his registration number on it. A hassle, sure, but it cuts out ALL the cowboys so prices are higher and your hassle is thus worth it. I think it was the Taxman who pushed for this legislation in France.

I seldom agree with the French way of doing things, but this might be a way forward. This scheme could be extended to ALL tradesmen. Decorators, joiners, plumbers etc. They could all be vetted and given a registration number and ID card. Just think of the revenue it would generate as well as reducing benefit fraud and tax evasion.

However, this would need to be done by National government and not the councils IMO as it would be a massive project.

[visiontechnician]

Its against human rights!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU CAN NOT MAKE A WINDOW CLEANER HAVE A LICENSE!!!

if thats the case every other trade should HAVE a license aswell.

Mr window cleaner cleans outsides only of houses all day long.

Mr joiner is renavating part of a house for his customer and is working alone in this house for 2 months a lot of the time on his own!!!

Now......

If anyone should have a license I would say its the joiner.

[Dean Aspects]

Visiontechnition it is LAW in Scotland to have a licence whether you like it or not what Doug is trying to do is make the law work in our favour by being part of the decision making process what happens in other trades is their business
If you dont like it then that is just tough for you deal with it and you go get a life i am not joking here i am telling you straight your comment is offensive to me let alone what Doug thinks of it!!!! 

Dean

[DASERVICES]

Vision yourself being based in Glasgow like it or not it is LAW that you have to have a licence.

Personally I cannot make you get a licence, nor the Council, but the Police who enforce the law can and report you to the Prosecutor Fiscal. So please take your frustration out on the Police as they are the ones that pushed for it. For your information checks are being made in Glasgow and Renfrewshire.

Yes you have a point about human rights, we have looked into it and there is no way out.

Licensing is here to stay as informed by the Scottish Government. All what we are doing is stating the fact that this is an unjust law as it is not enforced and no one knows about it. If we are to pay for a licence we expect something in return, I'm sure you would if you paid for one.

Yes agree that other trades should be licensed as many other window cleaners do but we are stuck with this.

The Police are now enforcing it and yes they can stop you from working.

I have stated this on many times and I urge even though it may go against your principle because we all do not like the licence it is here to stay. Lets now use it to benefit our trade.

Once again it is LAW not mine or the Councils another way or means to obtain money, it was passed through Parliament by those you voted in.

This is not a war licensed vs unlicensed but for the Council and Police to do their job as required by the Civic Law.

Agree with some of your points but please do not get caught out.

Thanks

[Village Gleam]

DA, this thread was about dealing with the press, not the rights and wrongs of the issues.

And I would like to congratulate you on handling it very well and making pertinent points in a joined up way that got included in the story. Well done.

[DASERVICES]

Much appreciated.

This worried me so I rang the paper involved this morning not to paint a picture that we were angry mob of licensed window cleaners gunning for the Council, this we are not. We are doing this in a professional way and analysing all facts.

The Press how many of them I do not know will be in attendance in the public gallery so it is very important that we present ourselves in a professional way. I have given seminars before so this will be no problem, but dealing with the press is something I have not faced before. So thanks for the comments which I will duly note.

One thing I would like to point out the SLWCN came about as a result of many years Fed members asking the FED to sort out the licensing problem in Scotland. The FED informed it's members they could not get anywhere so hence licensed window cleaners in Scotland decided to form it's own association to sort this out. We did look into getting the licence abolished but after looking into deeply and how it could benefit our industry we decided to work with Councils under the direction of the Scottish Goverment to resolve our issues. This we are doing.

Lastly SLWCN is not about me and it's committee members, it is about every licensed window cleaner in Scotland as well as those who are not licensed. We cannot change this law so it is up to every window cleaner in Scotland to work with us to get a better deal for us all through licensing if we like it or not.

Many thanks for your support, this is now becoming too big so come next year we will need SLWCN reps all over Scotland.

[Bryan_Dolby]

D A services

Over the years the FWC has spent a lot of time on the licensing law
Member Pollack Nicholl and committee member George Dobson has spent loads of time meeting with the politicians and got no were.

When Tam Kay contacted me to see what can be done, a meeting was arranged by the FWC to see what the Scottish members wanted to do.

One concern I had was it will have to be Scottish window cleaners to do some thing about this because who is going to listen to the English window cleaners, hence the  SLWCN was formed.

Keep the good work up.

Bryan  Dolby

[DASERVICES]

Thanks Bryan,

Forgot my name after talking at Cleaning Show

Apart form this I knew this would happen as other Civic trades have been keeping an eye on the SLWCN. They have failed in the past and now seem to be jumping on the band wagon. I do not mind this but we do not want an all out war on all Civic trades so may have to request a meeting of all Civic Trades.

As stated in the past our biggest issue of getting a National licence is other Civic trades, from this report the Taxi Drivers I know for a fact are keeping a close eye on us.

Good news for all but we do not want a tit for tat window cleaners get this taxi drivers get this etc...
 
Will get this sorted out for those who have seen this article.

http://www.cleaning43.com/latest-news/latest-news-article-industry.php?latestNewsID=88

Time to stamp out traders without licences

FIFE Council is to consider greater enforcement powers to help stamp out unlicensed window cleaners, and regulate taxi drivers and other civic government licence holders.

Almost 5000 licences have been handed out in Fife under Civic Government Licensing for activities such as street trading, window cleaning, charity collections, late hours catering and houses of multiple occupancy (HMOs).

However, there are currently no enforcement officers in Fife dedicated to dealing with complaints, ensuring compliance with licence conditions and checking up on unlicensed people.

At a meeting of Fife's regulation and licensing committee last Thursday, councillors gave their support for further research into employing enforcement officers, with the possibility of a pilot scheme.

Councillor Mike Rumney said: "The Council is very lax on enforcement and the sooner we get someone in the post the better. There is more than enough work for at least one person."

The issue had initially been raised following two complaints from the Kirkcaldy Taxi Owners Association regarding private hire cars plying for trade, and was further highlighted by an anonymous letter from a window cleaner complaining about the number of unlicensed cleaners trading in the Kirkcaldy area.

The cleaner claimed between 30 to 40 window cleaners were operating without licences and urged the Council to find a way of regulating the situation.

Councillor Judy Hamilton said the authority should consider raising awareness of those operating without licences.

She said: "A lot of people don't even realise that window cleaners need to have licences so perhaps we should look at a campaign to bring that to people's attention."

Councillor Jim Young also gave examples of taxi drivers flouting the conditions of their licences by carrying too many passengers.

Committee chairman Councillor Gerry McMullan said he was pleased by the support shown for greater enforcement, with a view to tackling those abusing licensing conditions.

A fact-finding exercise will now be carried out to ascertain the amount of work involved in Fife, specifically looking at the activities which may have high numbers of unlicensed people, and establishing whether those licensed are complying with conditions.

The exercise follows on from a consultation with Scotland's other 13 local authorities, where it was found the majority already employ enforcement officers funded by various sources.

Consideration could also be given to a review of the Council's current licence fee structure to ensure that the cost of enforcement was met by application fees.