[Paul Coleman]

If it works on first attempt then fair enough the job you've been paid to do has been completed to an acceptable standard. But do wfp guys still charge full price if it's obviously going to be a 2-3 clean before it's good?

3rd clean is rare.  2nd clean is more usual.  I charge 50% more (usually) for a first clean and that doesn't usually fully cover my extra time.  I certainly wouldn't charge less.
It could be argued that I'm charging more for a clean that may not be top standard.  However, it's also true that I'm charging more for a clean that takes a lot longer.
This isn't such a bad thing really as it can sometimes weed out the ones that aren't genuine about having an ongoing service.

[mark f]

ive given this a lot of thought now i have wfp, and i think every one is right. On most commercial you will be quicker. On fiddly houses you may be quicker on some. It all depends. I have found im quicker than many wc's on a ladder hence im finding wfp not as quick as many are. If your slower on a ladder as many are (and there is nowt wrong with that) then your turn over when switching across will be greatly increased.


  Dont want to squash good debate but i think it is as simple as that!!

  How else could some on houses be doubling thier income and others not noticing that much difference?

 I have noticed im doing 3 upstairs windows of a ladder to anothers 1 window before. Now give him a pole and he will no doubt be going twice as fast as before, but give me a pole and the increase may not be much more.

[Sir Squeaky]

On most commercial you will be quicker.

Only medium and large commercial, or ones with fiddly windows.

Not on simple shop fronts.
I'd leave wfp standing on shops.

Way too much bother to keep moving the kit around.
Much quicker to squeegee.

[Paul Coleman]

ive given this a lot of thought now i have wfp, and i think every one is right. On most commercial you will be quicker. On fiddly houses you may be quicker on some. It all depends. I have found im quicker than many wc's on a ladder hence im finding wfp not as quick as many are. If your slower on a ladder as many are (and there is nowt wrong with that) then your turn over when switching across will be greatly increased.


  Dont want to squash good debate but i think it is as simple as that!!

  How else could some on houses be doubling thier income and others not noticing that much difference?

 I have noticed im doing 3 upstairs windows of a ladder to anothers 1 window before. Now give him a pole and he will no doubt be going twice as fast as before, but give me a pole and the increase may not be much more.

I thinkwhat you've written roughly mirrors my own experience.  I reckon my speed trad cleaning was about average.  Once I got used to WFP my turnover has increased around 25%.  If I filled the gaps created it would be a great deal more.
I do wonder though if someone who was very fast with trad would also be very fast with WFP once they got used to it.  I prefer to plod a bit myself as my 50 year old body isn't as flexible as it once was.  Can still earn OK though.

[bazooka]

yes i take all yr points on board and some make sense i spend possible another hour and a half sorting water system out for morning when i should be doing my paper work we all cant afford the bees knees in technology as for the guy who says he can earn double his money with a pole over trad he must of been pretty crap at it hense the move 2 wfp yes u may say that im not very good with a wfp but it aint rocket science is it so i must be a good trad cleaning ;)i

[Paul Coleman]

yes i take all yr points on board and some make sense i spend possible another hour and a half sorting water system out for morning when i should be doing my paper work we all cant afford the bees knees in technology as for the guy who says he can earn double his money with a pole over trad he must of been pretty crap at it hense the move 2 wfp yes u may say that im not very good with a wfp but it aint rocket science is it so i must be a good trad cleaning ;)i

Well if I filled in all the work gaps created by WFP, my turnover would probably double what it was when I worked trad and I think I was rather better than useless.  Still, you're entitled to your opinion even though it has been given without full knowledge of all the facts.  I was slowed down for a number of years by illness which I got rid of the year before I started with WFP.
I wouldn't be comparing like for like businesses either.  I price new work much higher than I used to, have been gradually "losing" the underpaid work, and won't put up with customers who mess me about too much.  It's not too difficult doubling the turnover over several years if you come from a place of poor health and using ladders to a place of good health and using WFP.  The doubling effect won't happen this year but I see no reason why it won't happen in my next accounting year (starting October 1st '07).

[Pat Purcell]

I price new work much higher than I used to, have been gradually "losing" the underpaid work, and won't put up with customers who mess me about too much.


Shiner, assuming the potential was there to begin with would this not increase anybodys turnover regardless of their work method
To paraphrase the  old saying "a bad worker blames his tools" a good worker shouldn't credit his tools too much
My guess is that your increased profits is more down to you than wfp or trad
maybe going wfp gave you the push you needed to raise your prices but if the market couldn't withstand those prices it wouldn't matter what your work method

[Jeff Brimble]

Helo Pat,
There is less effort with wfp which allows you to work longer or faster, its up to you.

[NWH]

Jeff your bang on there,it allows you to work a lot lot longer days no doubt.When working trad there comes a point in the day when you`ve just had enough knackerd,with the pole it is so easy to go and do a few extra houses a day on top of what you would normally do.I used to do a house of ladders where i would do a third floor window off the ladder while being footed,i can now do the whole front of that house in the same time it used to take me to do that one window give or take a minute or so.

[Pat Purcell]

Helo Pat,
There is less effort with wfp which allows you to work longer or faster, its up to you.

I agree, I was just noting that what the shiner did was as much to do with raising his prices and dropping the badly paid stuff as it was to do with changing to wfp

[macmac]

Jeff your bang on there,it allows you to work a lot lot longer days no doubt.When working trad there comes a point in the day when you`ve just had enough knackerd,with the pole it is so easy to go and do a few extra houses a day on top of what you would normally do.I used to do a house of ladders where i would do a third floor window off the ladder while being footed,i can now do the whole front of that house in the same time it used to take me to do that one window give or take a minute or so.

well either the whole front of that house only has 2 more windows or you were a really, really slow trad cleaner!
(or maybe bending the truth a little )
tony

[neil100]

If you cannot increase your wage by 30% with wfp over trad then hang your head in shame. I hear posts like this now and again and wonder why do w/cleaners find it so hard to increase their wage.

If your not earning more or earning the same wage in far less time with wfp then your doing it WRONG. Or your so disorganized its your own fault.

I earn far more on my own with wfp then I ever made trad w/c when there were 2 of us doing my round. And for the record I was BL***Y Fast as a trad w/c. My ladder speed as never been matched by any w/c I have seen.

My earnings last year increased by 50%, and I was allready on a good wack as a Trad w/c. For me their is no comparison. I am not alone the vast majorty of my freinds have switched to wfp and they have increased their wage by a healthy wack. My mate went playing golf Friday afternoon because he earned £120.00 in 2 & 1/2 Hours with wfp. If he was Trad it would of been a 7 hour day.

Wake up and smell the Coffee.

Nel.

[Londoner]

I think first clean results are good enough. We have worked through those problems now. Most of the defects caused on first cleans was grime being disturbed from theframes above the window. Provided you pay proper attention to that its OK

Having been a trad cleaner on and off for thirty years and a WFP cleaner for just over one I can see no contest.
WFP is so much easier. My Dad used to say "If you want to find the easiest way to do a job give it to the laziest bloke" I am that lazy bloke.

[Paul Coleman]

Helo Pat,
There is less effort with wfp which allows you to work longer or faster, its up to you.

I agree, I was just noting that what the shiner did was as much to do with raising his prices and dropping the badly paid stuff as it was to do with changing to wfp

Sort of.  Where I have noticed the real time saving benefit is on my larger jobs.  The smallish to average jobs are often a bit quicker.   However, if I need to get the ladder off to get on a flat roof. that can mean no time saving.  I don't mind that so long as it's only a few jobs and so long as they are priced OK.