[Rob.Hall]

Was at a place last week where wfp boys were working.
As trad is my method of op at the moment I was dead keen to see how you boys performed.

The building was not high just large with lots of different sized pains etc. Old with new.

I was there most of the day myself and had access to the majority of the building.

My overall opinion was disapointing.

These guys were either working to fast or else the water was pants or wfp is no good. Some windows were left with drip marks, some with shadow marks, some had missed small areas on the windows completely. I could say 40% of the windows were of poor quality.

They poled top and bottom. Now I could expect a little le -way on the top floors but the bottoms???

The equipment was good and the set up was good.

What do you think.

[Rob.Hall]

Before you slagggggg me of for being trad I have been looking at  combining wfp as an additional to trade for certain jobs.

[williamx]

Rob

Wfp cleaning is quite capable of cleaning windows to a high standard, but some cleaners are not trained up in the knowledge of achieving this.

Its not always the equipment fault when a bad job has being carried out.

[Russell Macdonald]

Hi Rob.

Wfp is only as good as the guy on the end of the pole!

You can have 1 guy on the end of (example) a Tucker Pole system that costs 10k & if he does not know what he's doing the results will be bad.

You can have a guy on the end of a diy system that knows how to use a pole & it will be top notch.

I have also seen work by trad boys & had to laugh.

Macc

[NWH]

Spot on Macc,as long as you`ve got pure water it`s down to the person using it.

[Jeff Brimble]

Rob,
 wfp can be dissapointing dont let any manuf. tell you diff. There are problem windows and if you value your customers you will have to sort them out to the best of your ability. Its the learning curve that I keep going on about. Obviously the out fit you saw do not know how to do it or do not care, maybe they wont be there again. Thats their prob. I can tell you that you wont fall off your ladder ever again and will go home to see your family each and every day and hopefully collect your pension. Wfp also extends your working life.
You asked a very good and pertinent question you did not slag it off so maybe you have a mind open enough to enquire further and not just make an assesment based on one experience.

[Rob.Hall]

The company are a large one. well known. Hence no names mentioned. They had all the gear, not a small unit.
Some of the work was excelent. I know it must be difficult to spot small mistakes on upper floors but when you are on ground level there could be no excuses.
I am all for modern tec if it makes life easier and safer hence my asking the question.
Maybe I need to look into in greater depth. Speed seems to be a downfall with wfp.

Thanks to all who replied.
Rob

[Ian Rochester]

Rob,

You will find that the larger companies get their work by underpricing everyone else, the only way they can then make money is by taking shortcuts, ie: doing it fast, not rinsing, missing windows, etc, etc.

If you were to watch someone doing a domestic house using WFP you would probably see very different results, because the customer is different.

ps:  We use both trad and pole, whichever is best suited for the job.

[Paul Coleman]

Was at a place last week where wfp boys were working.
As trad is my method of op at the moment I was dead keen to see how you boys performed.

The building was not high just large with lots of different sized pains etc. Old with new.

I was there most of the day myself and had access to the majority of the building.

My overall opinion was disapointing.

These guys were either working to fast or else the water was pants or wfp is no good. Some windows were left with drip marks, some with shadow marks, some had missed small areas on the windows completely. I could say 40% of the windows were of poor quality.

They poled top and bottom. Now I could expect a little le -way on the top floors but the bottoms???

The equipment was good and the set up was good.

What do you think.

Do you know if this was the first clean?  If it was the first clean on a job that hadn't been done for ages then there can sometimes be problems.  On a first clean with a domestic job, I charge 50% more and go around it twice - effectively sharing the extra cost of the first clean with the customer if it's clear they want an ongoing service.  However, with commercial jobs, there often won't be the leeway with price to go around the first clean twice leading to a poorer quality job.  This should resolve itself though over the first two or three cleans.

[Rob.Hall]

I think you guys are right.

However I would have trad the bottom.

I was offered the work but turned it down as it was such a large job for a one man op.

If I had  a good wfp system and knew what I was doing I would have taken it on.

The maintenance manager told me to get sorted for next year as he would have liked me to have the job.

I did not discuss my feelings to the work carried out as I felt it was unprofessional.

[markybop]

So pole is best.........Is it ?

Well yes for conservatory roofs!

Yeah commercial you can get away with it

But im still trying to convince myself on using it 100% on domestic houses,

Still not consistently getting good results with it and thats not on initial cleans either

Havent yet had a full day with no 'nightmare' windows yet..........

There always seems to be 1 or 2 in the day that are a mess......

Im using exactly the same technique on each window, tds is perfect and frames are all the same

But got to keep telling myself and the customers that it's far safer than being up a ladder!

[david68]

So pole is best.........Is it ?

Well yes for conservatory roofs!

Yeah commercial you can get away with it

But im still trying to convince myself on using it 100% on domestic houses,

Still not consistently getting good results with it and thats not on initial cleans either

Havent yet had a full day with no 'nightmare' windows yet..........

There always seems to be 1 or 2 in the day that are a mess......

Im using exactly the same technique on each window, tds is perfect and frames are all the same

But got to keep telling myself and the customers that it's far safer than being up a ladder!

I agree with the above comment made here.

I asked my customers today about the wfping i have been doing on their house, These are the customers who never once moaned about the change over and take my saftey issue for the reasons why.

Question 1 to customers was what do you think of the system
Answer: Yes it cleans the windows but it looks messier than trad and drying time takes ages.

Question 2.....Was if another window cleaner came offering to do them trad, would you have him?
Answer.....No as you are a nice person and very helpful if needed and your job is great.

Question 3......If i was to change back to do all your homes trad, would this please you.......

Answer......90% would be over the moon and love this to happen, But do understand the reasons i am using wfp for saftey in mind.

Which either way i work i do all frames and sills (wfp & Trad).

The customers i asked the questions to are the ones who i can trust, (Some are family but most are normal customers.

Dave

[JohnL]

Speed seems to be a downfall with wfp.

and I think that is the main key to good WFP work!

I think too many people see it as a swish the brush over and thats it attitude. A bit like trad, swipe over squeegy off and down the ladder.

For good results either way you have to take your time and do it properly, and I am not knocking good fast work, just fast poor work!   

[Ian_Giles]

As Jeff says, there is a huge learning curve, I rarely do a job that is sub-standard, and I say rarely because now and again you will come across a job that you just cannot get perfect.
In any one day thee will always be a window or two here and there that won't be as good as it would if done trad.

By and large WFP is more thorough, it can be much quicker, it is far safer and as well as extending your working life, it will also extend your working day, you are less tired and able to work longer without being so knackered.

How good you are depends on you the individual.

The big companies have many window cleaners, they are not really monitored.

A few months ago I saw one of them doing our local police station..doing it trad off ladders, done an awful job and as for health and safety!
Same company are now doing it WFP, checked their work...awful

Don't blame the tools used! It's the tool using them you should blame!

Ian

[neil100]

Quality is King in my book.

It as reigned supreme since April 1980 when I started w/cleaning with leather and scrim.

I have made upgrades on the way like applicator and squeagee, Bucket on the belt, and at the end of 2005 to a van set up with wfp.

Quality and my need to ensure that every single window is as perfect as you could possible clean it,meant a great deal of unrest and uncertainty when I switched to wfp, WAS IT UP TO THE STANDARDS I SET MYSELF.

YES YES YES.

For 98% of my work its fantastic. I am over the moon with the finish that I achieve with it. I lost some customers who did not like the water dripping off onto their walls and pathways. their were many who did not like it but said they would give me time. I asked them to allow me clean them for a year before they passed judgement. A year on not one customer wants me to go back to trad and they love the standard that i clean their windows to. I am picking up so much work I am back up to just short of 5 full days a week.

Where is all this new work coming from? mainly from referrals from very satisfed domestic customers. Most new customers have had a trad w/c who is cheaper then me. But they are willing to pay me more because I clean windows to a higher standard.

It is a myth to say that wfp is rubbish on domestic windows. I am living proof as are many others on this forum that wfp in the right hands will clean windows to a very high standard.

 I am safer, I am richer, I am not as tired, I am happier, I find wfp very therapeutic  more so then trad w/c.

Dont get me wrong there are many people who wfp badly just as there are many who trad w/c badly.

But if you are a person who takes great pride in the job you do you will find wfp to be as good if not better then trad w/cleaning.

Nel

[Rob.Hall]

 my faith is restored...