[wayne99]

hi guy's, my first post,

my brother and i are chef's full time but only work from 3pm till 11pm, we make really good money which pays our mortgages and bills etc,but i have recently moved onto the largest private housing estate in europe,approx 15,000 houses and i have yet to see a wc in over 6 weeks of being here.

i got my mate who has a round to come and do mine and he charged me £7 which i thought was a bit expensive, 4 bed with a conservatory, after reading this site i see it is a good price, however he bought into his round and the two of them have over 1600 customers on a 6 weekly basis.

i saw an opportunity here so i talked to my brother and we have ordered all our stock and a van and we are starting up after our hols in a few weeks,we intend to leaflet drop the entire estate in a couple of weeks and are putting our phone numbers on the leaflet coz i dont wanna go back round again.

is this acceptable and will i get much responce, we thought about doing conservatories free for 3 mths as a gimmick to get trade, what do u guy's think?

anyway as i said we get very well paid as chef's so the money is all going towards buying property to rent out, we are estimating 10 properties in 10 years, the money from wc is just getting banked to pay for the deposits on the houses we intend to buy, what do u guy's think?

we want to retire to spain early and see this as a golden opportunity,we are going to be a professional outfit and are taking all advice seriusly, any help starting out would be great, sorry bout the long post but just want you to know bit about us, thanks

[Philip Hanson]

Hello Wayne and welcome to the forum.

First of all, you are right that window cleaning has many advantages as a business, flexibility is just one.

Lets look at your questions one by one:

i got my mate who has a round to come and do mine and he charged me £7 which i thought was a bit expensive, 4 bed with a conservatory

It does depend exactly where in the UK you are, but that is way, way too cheap.  I'd have charged about £16-£18 for that.

i saw an opportunity here so i talked to my brother and we have ordered all our stock and a van and we are starting up after our hols in a few weeks,we intend to leaflet drop the entire estate in a couple of weeks and are putting our phone numbers on the leaflet coz i dont wanna go back round again.

The equipment itself (assuming you're using ladders) isn't too expensive and doesn't need to be replaced very often.  If you are using ladders, you will need to be aware that there is a new raft of legislation about to become law that will restrict how they can be used.  In any case, it makes sense to consider a safer way of working.  

Water-fed pole systems are now available that allow you to clean windows from the ground.  They are more expensive than conventional equipment, but it is a faster method of working, so you would get through more work in a day than previously.  I'll put a link for you at the bottom.

Leaflet drops will usually get some response, especially in an area where there are no window cleaners.  It must be a good quality leaflet though or it will end up in the bin.  Talking to people personally, (canvassing) is generally recognised to be the best way to get customers, but leaflets can be very effective if done correctly.

we thought about doing conservatories free for 3 mths as a gimmick to get trade, what do u guy's think?

No, don't do that.  Window cleaning is in such demand, that would not be necessary.  You'll end up kicking yourself.

we want to retire to spain early and see this as a golden opportunity,we are going to be a professional outfit and are taking all advice seriusly, any help starting out would be great, sorry bout the long post but just want you to know bit about us, thanks

Well its alright for some!  Can I come and visit?!!

Regarding water-fed poles, here is a recent topic:
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Equipment;action=display;num=1091891787

-Philip

[WavieDavie]

Hi Wayne

So, you're in Co Durham then!http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22largest+private+housing+estate+in+europe%22&btnG=Search&meta=
Watch out for companies who promise to build a property portfolio for you in the North-East - there's been a few heartaches there recently.

It's good to see you're looking ahead. Now, take the following as constructive and let it digest before dismissing parts of it out of hand.

In no particular order . . .

Property as part of a portfolio for retirement is an excellent idea, but don't think you can sit back and watch the ££$$££s roll in, you have to be hands-on - who's going to handle emergencies, repairs, viewings etc. You aren't going to get a cheap property just ready for someone to walk into, you'll have to do a bit of work before you can let tenants in.  When they're in, that's when the fun starts - I suppose with the hours you work it could be a plus for your partner to take a complaint mid-evening and say "I'll make sure he's round first thing tomorrow morning to put that right!"
If you let a property manager handle things, they'll want their cut which will knock down your margin, and you'll just be another number on their books.
For true Buy-To-Let mortgages you need to put down 15% minimum. So that's your first target to go for.
Choice of mortgage? Well, in the end the tenants are paying anyway but to help cashflow you should go for interest only, gets you to the next deposit quicker, and if you ARE building up at one a year you'll only need to sell three or four at the end of the term to clear the mortgages and Capital Gains Tax to have a retirment pot - assuming prices rise of course. Then again, keep them on for an appreciating income stream. Capital + Interest is better for you at the end of the term but you'll have a hard job in getting rentals to cover C+I.

Have you thought about buying abroad to rent out? If you did decide to use an agent here and are happy with that in principle, it doesn't really matter where the property is, does it? So then you can have cheap breaks over there AND have somewhere to retire to!

Just remember property's a long term investment and isn't easy to get out of in a hurry, but I think you're on the ball enough to have that sussed out already.

Here's some links for you to go over . . .

http://www.blevinsfranks.com/international/publications.html
This will be the best £7 you'll ever spend - trust me!

Property Investing - Practical  
http://boards.fool.co.uk/Messages.asp?bid=50096&mid=8710638

Property Investing - Overseas
http://boards.fool.co.uk/Messages.asp?bid=50096&mid=8710638

Property - Markets and Trends
http://boards.fool.co.uk/Messages.asp?bid=51402&mid=8717962

You can ask away on any of these boards but they're a funny lot on PMT - aptly named, a few think!

All the best - just go for it!

[wayne99]

thanks for the replies guy's, very informative, well i know what is involved in getting a property ready for letting as my family do it as there buisiness, this is my time to get into it, we are actually looking into buying a villa in a couple of years time as we see that as a good investment, but my main concern is the window cleaning side of it, i want to make that successfull first then worry about the property later, just my plan for the future as i dont see a pension the way to go.

[WavieDavie]

Hi Wayne,

At the top right of the page you'll see "Hey, wayne99, you have 1 messages.

Click on that for me please.

[Ian Gourlay]

Ive just been watching a Property Programme on channel 5 They said that Property in Benton, West Newcastle is a good buy for development

It appears a few years back you could buy one for 50p if you were prepared to spend £15000 and council would put in £15000.


Now a Flat is selling for £70000.

However ar Auction you can buy properties to convert into two flats for about 55k.

If only it was that easy.

[Duke]

blimey...I used to be a Chef too....crap hours, worse pay...glad I clean glass now...part time of course...still double Chef's wages...and I cooked for Cherie Blair..pah !