[julieg]

Hi I have been operating as a sole trader for almost a year. I have had a call from a company saying that they own the name at companies house.

I am willing to change name but does anyone know where one would stand if I just make a very slight change to it. I sensed from our conversation that they would object to it being too simillar.

I probably need legal advice but wondered whether anyone had actually come across this problem themselves. They have offered to sell it to me, but I am not exactly making a huge profit as yet.  Any advice/views welcome.

Thanks  Julie G

[Fox]

Hi Julie

Please note that this just laymans advice.  I would tell this company to go take a running jump!  You are not Ltd so you can call yourself anything and if you are willing to change your name then it doesn't matter how close the name is and I think that stands for Ltd companies too.

You obviously haven't signed anything with this company saying you would not use the same name have you?  If they are willing to sell their name what does it say about their company?  They can't be trading - I reckon it is a scam to get money - but like I said I don't know the legal standing just letting you know what I would do.

Do you really think this 'other' company would have a case if it ended in court - especially the way they have approached the whole thing.

Stick to your guns girl - afterall it doesn't sound as if you or they are national so what effect can it have, (unless they are in the same area and trading in the same industry - different story altogehter), they obviously have Ltd after their name isn't that a difference?

[DP]

I had this once with a shop I owned. I had bought a Limited company (off the shelf) and then traded as another name (perfectly legal).

Another  very large company called me to say that they had seen my trading name on an advert (which was exactly the same as theirs without the LTD bit) and insisted that I changed it or ceased trading. The odd thing here was that we were in a closely allied business and it could of got ugly.

I did exactly what Fox suggested and told them to sling their hook although very unsure about my position so I sought advice.

Names are like patents, if you have the money and resources you can really protect them. If you trade in the same industry or allied industry then the offended company can go as far as seizing all profits and assets that you have accumulated or denied them by using their name, assuming the company find you worthy of going after.

In my most recent Ltd company (which includes the "UK" abbreviation) the tables were reversed. I discovered another world wide corporate flirting with their name and including the same "UK" abbreviation to advertise their UK branch. This then made their advertised name EXACTLY the same Ltd company name as mine.

I complained to Companies House who replied that as they didn’t trade in the same industry they would not take any action, and that it would be up to me to pursue

Annoying to say the least !

[George-Reid]

Julie.
Excellent advice above.
You are a sole trader they cant touch you stick to your guns.

George

[julieg]

Thanks to all, very much appreciated. The company in question is a franchisor! A little bigger than me! I know he is going to check my advert in yell to see whether I have changed it.

[garyj]

I can't help thinking that if this company is a franchise and you are in the same line of business with the same name then they will persue this and probably win. What if someone in your area buys the franchise licence, they will end up trading as the same name as you and this will cause confusion to perspective clients. If the clients can't tell which company is which the company that has registered the name will win the claim.
Check with your solicitor.

[Fox]

Hang on if the person is a franchisor how can he/she offer to sell you their name?  Surely this would lead to all of the franchisees they have got to changing theirs.

Are they in the same business Julie?

Still smells alot like fish to me.

[garyj]

I would have thought that a big part of buying a franchise IS the name. If its a nationwide company with a recognised trading name & national advertising then it would surely be against the law to use that name, it would be argued in court that you were trying to gain customers by trading off there name.

OOoooo Fox, our first disagreement

[George-Reid]

If Julie told us the name it may be a lot easier to answer we are all second guessing here.

George

[nick.solution]

Hi Guys

If you are both in the same trade and the Ltd company can prove you may be using there name to increase your trade and at the same time be affecting there business including possibly damaging there reputation they do have legal right to force you to change your operating name and any associated advertising, should you refuse they can seek financial claims, however if you name is only similar thats a different case altogther.

Best regards Nick

[DP]

I would still tell them to sling their hook in the first instance, because it makes sense not to rise to any idle threats.

However do not rely on the misconception about "rights" as a sole trader, you don’t have any, if somebody can prove that you have benefited by using their name, they have a case (although it doesn’t mean to say that the case has any value) but more so when it comes to Ltd companies as its easy to prove registration etc etc.

However it takes money as I said before and few bother unless there is low risk and you have enough for them to make it worth their while or they feel that you are a serious threat.

I again agree with Fox regarding the franchise issue. This is the bit that really doesn’t make any sense, as nobody is gonna sell you the name unless the company is redundant or they want to sell the entire company (maybe a franchisee trying to flog his investment).

Until somebody writes to you, I would simply ignore
it.

[Fox]

Hmm - nobody seems to have taken note of my earlier post!  If they are a franchisor how can they sell the name to Julie without the franchisees knowing and changing?

Of course a Company can fight for their name - but through civil courts with big costs - again I ask - is this company trading in the same industry, in the same area?

Gary - yes 1st disagreement - but hopefully not the last - keep at it!

Sorry about the swearing admin -  but Julie tell them to P**s off!

[Ian Gourlay]

Did you check to see if there were similar names trading locally before your started.

Did you research the industry to see if there were companies trading nationally using your name.

If you did this you can not be accused of passing off.

How much have you invested in your name has it got a value locally.

Is this Franchise trying to sell you a local Franchise or the enire operation.

Locally we had a similar high profile case where a retailer used the same name as a local shop in an upmarket area of London uses.

The trader is still using same  name 15 years on .

But he did have to fight.

So is your name an investement, current brand awareness woth the effort.

If yes Fight and Fight and Fight

Yes i love these battles

Regards

Ian

[julieg]

Sorry guys did not give you enough info. The franchisor (domestic cleaning services) used to be called what I am now. They no longer trade in the their old name (my current name). but now trade in another. I know what difference is it to them now.      

[Len Gribble]

Julie

Was it wise using the same name after a defunct franchisor? Hopefully they did not have any franchisees in your area; there must be a reason why they changed names. By the way it must be a British franchisor as the Yanks don’t change core names

You are still leaving every one with a carrot dangling quote I know what difference is it to them now unquote what is that supposed to mean?

Len

[Ian Gourlay]

Just a guess  is your trading name Chars?

[julieg]

i mean what difference should it make to them now. They are well established with their current name, why should they bother about a little old independent company trading in what used to be their old name??

We cover the same areas, but I am small fry compared to them. No I'm not call Chars, I'm not being mysterious but they may use this website.  

Julie G  

[Len Gribble]

Julie

Sorry to be facetious, as they already know who you are, what’s the problem! You are only asking the forum opinion on your problem, then again if you thought you were in a precarious position you would have sort legal advice first before posting. Big fish eats little fish

Len

[DP]

Of all the names you could have chose, you chose theirs. did you know what you were doing when you started up? If this was the case then you should be prepared for the consequences.

Your original post made no mention of a number of things which can cause inappropriate or inaccurate answers. People will often help where they can but it can be irritating when many of the most important facts are missing, it just serves to waste time.

With regards to fighting, its all very well until it can cost someone their entire business and private wealth as a result of poor information or cheers from a distant audience.

If it really is that serious then the only action is to seek legal advice, as the consequences can be horrendous (if they choose to go for you) I have already paid for this advice once, but don’t take my word for it.

[seanc]

maybe everyone that is starting up could use this as a bit of advise as well cheak out names b4 starting up one way of doing this is type the name in somewhere like google all big companys have web sites these days