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George P

  • Posts: 1304
builders clean HELP
« on: December 12, 2006, 06:10:06 pm »
been asked to quote for new house build cleans, i would apprecite any advise on costings and what it entails, h & S, method statements or any ything else you think useful,  tried to look at previous posts but sat with fidgetty baby on knee who wants to press everything on keyboard and its a little awkward, all replies appreciated,  done window cleanimng for a while but no builders cleans, many thanks, george

George P

  • Posts: 1304
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2006, 08:07:33 pm »
tried to arange a site visit but told not started to build yet just wanting quotes etc, any help would realy be appreciated, many thanks george.

Robert Parry

  • Posts: 535
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2006, 10:07:44 am »
Hi George,
We come across this on a regular basis, under no circumstances would I quote, sight unseen, by all means get all your paperwork, systems and processes in place, chuck in a few references etc, but as for price, tell them to call back when built.

Regards,

Rob
A world of difference....

pdl

  • Posts: 154
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2006, 11:33:52 am »
I would agree with Robert.  We do a lot of this type of work, but we won't quote until at the very least we've seen the plans.
Never ASSUME, to ASSUME makes an ASS out of U and ME              Cannock Staffordshire

George P

  • Posts: 1304
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2006, 02:58:20 pm »
thank you rob & pdl, we do have plans but was hoping a site visit 1st, will consider sending docs in (yet to make up) but only with a provisional price not exact quote, as you say alot of this happens then maybe only very big companies could do it - this maybe what they want? thanks again george

martin19842

  • Posts: 1945
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2006, 06:57:50 pm »
hi there

most developers will make a decision on the site regarding the cleaning before you could see a ready plot.  they will expect you to be able to quote from the information and plans that they have provided.

we got a call this afternoon, panic from a large developer let down by his current cleaning company, so we are in there from tomorrow morning  and all next week, to hemop them achieve plots for move in.

i do love it, we when get these calls.

regards

martin

*Madmary's Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 32
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2006, 03:06:59 pm »
Hi George.
Builder's Cleaning constitutes most of our contracts.

As with any new venture into business, you must start with giving yourself an absolute minimum living wage. Add to this an estimate of you running costs, materials etc. Then take into account your legal obligations, ie: Public Liability Insurance, 18% tax, NI. etc.

Finally, when you arrive at this 'ballpark' figure, increase it by 30% for your profit margin!

Now that is just the basics for starting in any business, what about the cleaning itself?

Well a lot of will, of course, depend on the type of development you want to quote for, but I can give you a simple example:

Take an average domestic housing development. An average home on the development is, say, a three bedroomed, 2 storey house. This is likely to have one family bathroom, an en'suite with shower and a downstairs WC.

The following cleans are likely to be required:

Full Builder's Clean                                                = minimum 8 hours (1 person)
Re-Clean (after snagging)                                     = minimum 4 hours (1 person)
Final 'Sparkle' Clean (just before move in)            = minimum 4 hours (1 person)

Using the initial figure you came up with, apply it accordingly to obtain the hourly figure you require (keep this to yourself!) and quote as per each job.

Use the above example to estimate the time required to clean smaller or larger properties and quote accordingly.

Hope this helps. Good luck and merry Christmas all...... :D

julianbiggs

  • Posts: 395
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2006, 04:27:25 pm »
We've been doing a contract for Charles Church developers now for about 3 months. Here are all the things I can tell you about it ( in no particular order ):

1. Have a really good look at the plans and work out by time how long each plot will take on a builder's clean, reclean and sparkle basis. Be generour with the time for a builders clean..in my experience the houses can be pretty mucky ( even though they are new ) and the bathrooms are a mess!!!!

2. Get a copy of their scope of work..This is their expectation of the work you must carry out to get the contract.

3. We based our price on £20 per hour....got the contract too..

4. Be prepared for the builders ringing you up at a minutes notice begging you to do a builders,reclean or sparkle especially as their financial year comes to an end.

5. If it is a 3 clean programme also be aware that they will definitely ask you to do the "odd" extra clean...That's fine but we are doing 73 plots...That is potentially 73 extra " odd" cleans..This is not being done for free....We are a business the same as they are and it will cost them!!!

6. You may be asked to put in a bill of quantites. If you get the contract buy loads of cleaning materials and bill them for the lot !!! Even if you don't use them all!!! Also buy a Henry Hoover..Your home hoover wont be able to handle all those new carpets for long!!!!

7. The contract we have is for 2 of us and they are very big houses ( 4, 5 and 6 beds between £400,000 and £700,000. As a guess i reckon each clean has taken the following time as an average

builder's clean - 2 people x 8 hours = 16 hours total

reclean  - 2 people x 4 hours = 8 hours total

sparkle clean - 2 people x 3 hours = 6 hours total.

The more hard work you put in for the builder's clean the easier the other 2 cleans will be.

If you build up a good relationship with the site manager that counts for a lot...He will then hide keys for you enabling you to work out of hours or in the dark after they've all gone home.

If you need any more help please email me on biggsjul@aol.com

Hope that info has helped a bit!!!

pdl

  • Posts: 154
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2007, 05:56:09 pm »
julian,

Do you clean the windows as well on this Charles Church Contract and at what stage do you clean them?
Never ASSUME, to ASSUME makes an ASS out of U and ME              Cannock Staffordshire

martin19842

  • Posts: 1945
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2007, 07:46:54 pm »
hi there

julian

dont know how much out of hours work you do, but just be aware.

if anything happens out ofhours, water leaks, radiators falling of walls etc or worse acident, and it could get  a bit sticky.

just an opinion, only

regards

martin

*Chris Browne

  • Posts: 863
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2007, 09:31:45 pm »
We also do Charle Church by the way ;D have been for about 2 years and your prices are not far off ours ;) We dont do the windows although we have our own window cleaners, but they tend to come in on the closing stages (after an initial builders scrape) ;)


Chris

julianbiggs

  • Posts: 395
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2007, 09:35:41 am »
We do the windows first...they seem to take the longest to do. Cause there's always tape and "gunk" stuck to the windows both inside and out. So the first window clean is the hardest, but the reclean and sparkle are a doddle. Inside the properties it's always the bathrooms which are worst. And again initial builder's clean is hard but then the recleans and sparkles are far easier.

*Madmary's Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 32
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2007, 01:36:53 pm »
Hi again.
Interesting comments!

We have been with a developer on two sites for over 18 months now.  One site is 127 houses and flats, of various sizes, up to five beds.
The other site was 10 flats and a disability unit - now complete.

We have just received confirmation that we have the full contract for a third site with them - 83 houses and flats.

We had to negotiate hard to get the third contract!  The reason for this is as follows:
We initially used a 4 stage cleaning system: Window Clean, Build Clean, Re-Clean and Final Sparkle Clean.

We separated the Window Clean from the Build Clean simply because of the length of time it can take to do the windows.  We had to reduce the price of our Build Clean and price seperately for the Windows.  This was because often there can be months between doing the windows and being able to do the Build Clean - so we had to invoice seperately - or wait a long time for payment of the work already done on the windows!

The developers decided that this was too complicated and insisted that we include the windows with the Build Clean for the third contract.

Another problem was that we were aked to do too much on the second site, ie:
2nd or 3rd Re-Cleans or Sparkles after remedial work to the properties.  We got signed authorisation for these 'additional cleans' of course, but eventually the developers realised that their budget had gone out the window!

They were even talking about employing a full time worker (at £6 - £7 per hour!) to clean the third site!  So we had to offer a substantial discount and adjust a few of our prices to get the contract!  (Although, we know the quality of our work also helped!)

The moral of this story is simple:

The developer knows the value of the contract and has a budget to work to.  Don't over price 'additional work requests'  Think of it as a bonus above and beyond the contract.  Don't be greedy!

Be prepared to offer a discount for the FULL contract.  In another post, I said that when pricing for a contract, allow yourself a minmum of 30% for profit.  Then, when you offer a discount - it comes from this profit!
You are still 'quids-in'  Everyone's a winner.

Happy new year!

martin19842

  • Posts: 1945
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2007, 05:01:54 pm »
hi there

a problem or potential problem with discounting is that the client will start to expect discounts all the time.

anybody can buy work on a discount, it should be about the quality if the service that the client receives, not the cheapest job they can get.

some site agents, and construction directors for that matter, think that the cleaning is the smallest part of the job.


when in fact on the NHBC customer care surveys, the qquestion

was your home ready and clean??  scores the highest as the answer is either yes or no.

i have always argued that the question is wrong, cause you will get the blame even iof the house wasnt ready for the people  to move in.

deliver the cleint the service they require, and then they will pay for that service.

regards

martin


*Madmary's Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 32
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2007, 05:37:43 pm »
Hey Martin,

Totally agree with you there.

The problem we had was they were actively seeking a cheaper cleaning firm and, as I said, they were seriously considering getting an 'in-house' cleaner!

We had to do something or lose the contract - simple!

Admittedly, it could seem that we have 'cut our own throats' with this developer for future projects, but we also know that this developer has no current plans for projects within the scope of our operations area for the forseeable future.

martin19842

  • Posts: 1945
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2007, 06:28:00 pm »
hi there

they will never clean the properties themselves, so i wouldnt be threatened by that at all.

we did several sites for a develper, we tendered for the next site, but werent succesful, three months into the builkd the site agent rang me to ask us to get them ut of the brown stuff.

regards

martin


*Madmary's Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 32
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2007, 06:59:16 pm »
Hey Martin,

I am with you on that one!

We tendered for a contractor - whom I SHALL name:  BELLWAY HOMES (East Midlands)  We did not get the contract, but some six months later we got an urgent phone call from them. "Please, our cleaner has let us down and we need 27 Sparkles done - in three days!"

Following a bit of umming and ahing about our prices, they agreed to pay our original tender price.

YIPPEE! That's it, our foots in the door with this developer.

On arrival at site, we saw the terrible quality of the previous cleans. The site manager says, "no problem, if you think they warrant a build clean, fine, just get them up to sparkle and give me the paperwork, I will authorise it with head office"

We pulled out all the stops: Drafted in staff, worked through the weekend and up to 9pm every day.

We completed the cleans in time. Produced the paperwork to the site manager. You can probably guess what he said?  "I'm not authorising this one, or that one, or that one" etc.

We had already been asked to carry out more cleans, but walked off site instead.

Invoice was sent with what we considered were build cleans, accompanied by a stern letter of complaint against the site manager.

Nearly three months went by before I began county court proceedings - but they eventually paid in full before it went ahead.

Learned a valuable lesson there:
Get a signature BEFORE carrying out ANY work.

bpb

  • Posts: 25
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2007, 03:05:50 pm »
Any specific products that people would recommend for the builders cleans or just general household cleaning products? Micro fibre cloths? Lambs wool dusters?
Which products do people find best for laminate floors?
Thankyou

*Madmary's Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 32
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2007, 09:53:43 pm »
I hate to say it - because there are so many businesses selling there wares on this site - but NO is the simple answer!

If you can't do a build clean without no more than soap and water, a scraper and your finger nails! you have too much money to waste!

Sorry, and I am sure I will get grief for this, but we are 'new-build' specialists and know what we are talking about!

We only EVER use chemicals when we are called in to do Domestics!

Then, we may use bleach! (offensive word) and our PLI specifically prohibits this!

Be careful - and save your dosh!

bpb

  • Posts: 25
Re: builders clean HELP
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2007, 03:10:57 pm »
what's the best method of removing the stickers and gunk etc. from windows please?
Thankyou
Rob